Flying over the Australian Alps / Mountain flying
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Flying over the Australian Alps / Mountain flying
Hi
I'm planning a flight from Melbourne (YMMB) to Merimbula (YMER) and would like to fly direct over the Australian Alps.
Anybody experience with that route ?
Considering the clouds are "OK" in the area forecast and check the weather at Mt Buller (YBXU), Mt Hotham (YHOT) and Cooma (YCOM) ... as long as I have more than 500feet over terrain I reckon that should be ok. (I really want to fly over all mountains, no valley or contour flying !)
Any comments or suggestions?
Much appreciated.
Cheers
A
I'm planning a flight from Melbourne (YMMB) to Merimbula (YMER) and would like to fly direct over the Australian Alps.
Anybody experience with that route ?
Considering the clouds are "OK" in the area forecast and check the weather at Mt Buller (YBXU), Mt Hotham (YHOT) and Cooma (YCOM) ... as long as I have more than 500feet over terrain I reckon that should be ok. (I really want to fly over all mountains, no valley or contour flying !)
Any comments or suggestions?
Much appreciated.
Cheers
A
That's a beautiful flight - I assume you're in a little single?
Wind at that elevation will be serious. If it's a windy day, forget it. The turbulence will be bad, even more so in a small a/c.
You're in a designated remote area - you need survival gear. Especially at this time of year.
And look at areas for forced landings. Few and far between. Research your route on google earth.
Enjoy
Wind at that elevation will be serious. If it's a windy day, forget it. The turbulence will be bad, even more so in a small a/c.
You're in a designated remote area - you need survival gear. Especially at this time of year.
And look at areas for forced landings. Few and far between. Research your route on google earth.
Enjoy
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I've done a similar flight, a number of times. There are more places than expected for a forced landing - mainly in the valleys and some on top of flat ridges. There are some airstrips there not marked on the charts.
Suggest you wait for the best weather and fly high. I chose flight following, just in case.
Enjoy.
Suggest you wait for the best weather and fly high. I chose flight following, just in case.
Enjoy.
You may wish to revise your altitude of....
"as long as I have more than 500feet over terrain I reckon that should be ok. (I really want to fly over all mountains, no valley or contour flying !)"
To more like a 'cuppla thou' above terrain, for the reasons Mr CS gave, and to have a wider field of vision, and to enjoy the trip more, just in case....
Be very mindful of the effect of the wind on turb generated.
ENJOY - and tell us how it all went, ....
Cheers
Sorry Uncle...was right 'on top of you'....
"as long as I have more than 500feet over terrain I reckon that should be ok. (I really want to fly over all mountains, no valley or contour flying !)"
To more like a 'cuppla thou' above terrain, for the reasons Mr CS gave, and to have a wider field of vision, and to enjoy the trip more, just in case....
Be very mindful of the effect of the wind on turb generated.
ENJOY - and tell us how it all went, ....
Cheers
Sorry Uncle...was right 'on top of you'....
Good responses from the contributors here. I second the notion that a bit more than 500' over the tops would be preferential, for all the reasons provided above. Forecasts aren't always that accurate as I'm sure you're aware, would want a bit more fat built in. Don't push it, always have an exit strategy. Read up on mountain waves, crossing ridge lines in strong winds, etc. Make the decision to turn back early. But, I'm sure you won't have any problems, the area is really picturesque - any snow up that way yet?
Refreshing change to see the positive, encouraging responses from people on here.
Refreshing change to see the positive, encouraging responses from people on here.
The grid LSALT is 8700 ft. This would give you a VFR ICAO level of 9500 ft. It will be cold up there. Wear warm clothes. The heater muff on a single is not necessarily as effective as you might want. A blanket for passengers might be smart.
A carburetted, normally aspirated single will need a fair bit of power up there. Winter will help you out with density altitudes, but you may be needing a higher power setting for the cruise (if you have a CSU) than you are accustomed to. Cruising altitude will almost certainly be above the freezing level, but watch carb icing going through the lower levels.
Make sure that your EPIRB is sorted & current.
In a single, its actually the leg Cooma to Merimbula that would have me more anxious. It gets pretty rugged & remote.
VHF coverage around Merimbula can be patchy. Don't be stressed if you lose VHF comms for a bit. You can also get some wind shear coming over the hills west of Merrimbula.
Outbound from Moorabbin you'll probably be via Eildon. This area gets some of Australia's worst weather. And you're right in the CTA J-curve going opposite direction to IFR traffic coming into Melb. I reckon I'd be paying the money and filing a plan.
I wouldn't be trusting the TAF's. I'd phone BOM for an elaborative briefing.
A carburetted, normally aspirated single will need a fair bit of power up there. Winter will help you out with density altitudes, but you may be needing a higher power setting for the cruise (if you have a CSU) than you are accustomed to. Cruising altitude will almost certainly be above the freezing level, but watch carb icing going through the lower levels.
Make sure that your EPIRB is sorted & current.
In a single, its actually the leg Cooma to Merimbula that would have me more anxious. It gets pretty rugged & remote.
VHF coverage around Merimbula can be patchy. Don't be stressed if you lose VHF comms for a bit. You can also get some wind shear coming over the hills west of Merrimbula.
Outbound from Moorabbin you'll probably be via Eildon. This area gets some of Australia's worst weather. And you're right in the CTA J-curve going opposite direction to IFR traffic coming into Melb. I reckon I'd be paying the money and filing a plan.
I wouldn't be trusting the TAF's. I'd phone BOM for an elaborative briefing.
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I have flown over the ranges in NZ and can say that 500ft is not enough. The advice on warm clothing is a MUST, not only for in the plane but also in case you do have to make a forced landing. Take plenty of water, a handheld GPS and mountain footwear.
The wind will be a critical factor, study a mountain weather guide as the lens affect from the wind can easily flip a plane over and also force your plane to descend. Even with full power you may not be able to over come it.
Taking a camera would also be an essential piece of equipment
The wind will be a critical factor, study a mountain weather guide as the lens affect from the wind can easily flip a plane over and also force your plane to descend. Even with full power you may not be able to over come it.
Taking a camera would also be an essential piece of equipment
Flying direct Moorabbin to Merimbula will take you well south of most of the larger hills like Buller, Hotham, Falls Creek (Mt Bogong and Feathertop) and Kosciuszko. You path will lie closer to BawBaw, the terrain through this area is still very rugged with high IFR LSALTs behind Bawbaw and forced landing areas are extremely limited anywhere in this area.
As the others have said plan for the worst make sure you have warm/wet weather clothing available and survival equipment, especially some extra water, food and locating devices. No radar coverage and unreliable VHF means at low level if you go missing they will take a long time to find you. Make sure your mobile is fully charged. Below 10000ft there is little radar coverage outside of 100nm ML, less if lower.
The weather can change rapidly and be vastly different over a few miles, so using an AWS or TAF from YHOT is only good for that point, even 10nm away it is next to useless.
The ranges west of YMER can be a trap for VFR, the cloud often covers the tops and will not be reported on the Aerodrome TAF or AWS. Merimbula being on the coast the weather is mostly pretty clear there, but not the approach through the hills.
Do not fly down valleys in the hope the cloud is the same height all the way through and you'll come out the other side remaining VMC.
Have plenty of alternates like Sale, Albury, Bairnsdale Etc.. and make sure they stay easily available as you progress. A cold front approaching from the west can cross the entire area in a few hours reducing conditions to barely safe for even IFR.
If you are IFR capable remember from this time of year and through to pretty much November the freezing level will be as low as 3000ft. Any flight into cloud will result in serious icing at levels above FZL especially at 6000-10000ft.
If you do intend this sort of flight at this time of year don't lock into accommodation or activities that will give you incentive to press on. Wait for the perfect conditions and be very cautious.
As the others have said plan for the worst make sure you have warm/wet weather clothing available and survival equipment, especially some extra water, food and locating devices. No radar coverage and unreliable VHF means at low level if you go missing they will take a long time to find you. Make sure your mobile is fully charged. Below 10000ft there is little radar coverage outside of 100nm ML, less if lower.
The weather can change rapidly and be vastly different over a few miles, so using an AWS or TAF from YHOT is only good for that point, even 10nm away it is next to useless.
The ranges west of YMER can be a trap for VFR, the cloud often covers the tops and will not be reported on the Aerodrome TAF or AWS. Merimbula being on the coast the weather is mostly pretty clear there, but not the approach through the hills.
Do not fly down valleys in the hope the cloud is the same height all the way through and you'll come out the other side remaining VMC.
Have plenty of alternates like Sale, Albury, Bairnsdale Etc.. and make sure they stay easily available as you progress. A cold front approaching from the west can cross the entire area in a few hours reducing conditions to barely safe for even IFR.
If you are IFR capable remember from this time of year and through to pretty much November the freezing level will be as low as 3000ft. Any flight into cloud will result in serious icing at levels above FZL especially at 6000-10000ft.
If you do intend this sort of flight at this time of year don't lock into accommodation or activities that will give you incentive to press on. Wait for the perfect conditions and be very cautious.
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I've done the YMMB YMER flight a couple of times and it's not difficult.
Check whether you'll need clearance thru East Sale.
There are some mountains surrounding YMER and it can be tricky approaching Merrimbula if there are clouds. You could alternatively follow the coast along the south where there are no terrain issues.
It's a very pretty town and the weather there always seems fine.
Check whether you'll need clearance thru East Sale.
There are some mountains surrounding YMER and it can be tricky approaching Merrimbula if there are clouds. You could alternatively follow the coast along the south where there are no terrain issues.
It's a very pretty town and the weather there always seems fine.
When you live....
It's a very pretty town and the weather there always seems fine.
First time was first trip with fresh P-IFR. Heading north from Mallacoota wondering when the cloud below was going to break up. Broke out turning inbound on the NDB approach.
Second time was forecast BKN about 2000'. Both us in a King Air and Rex in a SAAB made two approaches, saw nothing, and diverted.
The weather on the hills to the west can also cause quite localised low overcast over YMER and if BoM aren't paying attention - the forecasts don't always keep up with changed conditions.
That said, just wait it out till an autumn or spring CAVOK day with light winds and go high! it's a lovely trip....
UTR
That said, just wait it out till an autumn or spring CAVOK day with light winds and go high! it's a lovely trip....
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Some great advice here & should be mandatory reading for all pilots doing same.
As has been said, winds, strong winds can be the killer & keep in mind that yr G/S speed (assuming a light SE) might be as low as 50-60 kts at times whilst yr still chewing thru your fuel going nowhere!
One piece of good advice is & seeing as it's a private flight simply don't go if any of the above considerations are or have a high degree of probability, private flying means you don't "have" to go. Better for us to be reading about yr displeasure at Vic's at times unpredictable weather causing you to cancel than to be reading there's a search on....for you !
We've all been here far too many times reading such stories shaking our heads.....'why did they go'? Hindsight is a wonderful thing & you have the opportunity to have it before you go with posts like these here
I've flown over this country in all sorts of flying machines in all sorts of wx & it can be bloody scary as mother nature can take prisoners at the drop of a hat!
Cavok & light winds to you
Wmk2
As has been said, winds, strong winds can be the killer & keep in mind that yr G/S speed (assuming a light SE) might be as low as 50-60 kts at times whilst yr still chewing thru your fuel going nowhere!
One piece of good advice is & seeing as it's a private flight simply don't go if any of the above considerations are or have a high degree of probability, private flying means you don't "have" to go. Better for us to be reading about yr displeasure at Vic's at times unpredictable weather causing you to cancel than to be reading there's a search on....for you !
We've all been here far too many times reading such stories shaking our heads.....'why did they go'? Hindsight is a wonderful thing & you have the opportunity to have it before you go with posts like these here
I've flown over this country in all sorts of flying machines in all sorts of wx & it can be bloody scary as mother nature can take prisoners at the drop of a hat!
Cavok & light winds to you
Wmk2
Caution also if tempted to press on VFR on top of bkn cloud - the Cu tops can build faster than you can climb in a lightie, and if you turn back they may well have built behind you too, leaving you in a fairly precarious position with cumulus granitus below.
I haven't had this happen to me but know some people who have been there!
I haven't had this happen to me but know some people who have been there!
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flying over the Alps is awesome, just remember, as said before, its a designated remote area, so make sure you comply with those requirements,
The terrain North East of the snowy ranges around Mt Kosiuszko to Cooma is actually quite flat with plenty of forced landing options,
The ranges around the Victorian alps is very rugged and unforgiving, almost non existent landing options, and Mt Hotham is very tricky in winds above 10 kts, really fun when its 20 kts from the west, as the strip is across the top of a ridge with deep valleys either end and to the northern side. so expect strong downdrafts and severe turbulence on short final.
best time for fantastic scenery is in winter, with a big high pressure system over the area, and temps do get very cold up there!!
Take a camera, you will love it
Looking towards Koscioszko from above charlotte Pass.
Looking north, over Perisher Blue, Cloud 8/8 to the west of the range, scattered and clear to the east.
The main range, heading south, above Charlotte Pass resort.
weather on this trip was 2 days after a front passed, and a high was sitting pretty much over central NSW.
Towards the end of the ski season you can be lucky and get a persistent High sit in the Tasman, or just off the coast leaving the alps fairly clear of high winds and cloud.
Departing Mt Hotham for Flinders island, very rough terrain..
The terrain North East of the snowy ranges around Mt Kosiuszko to Cooma is actually quite flat with plenty of forced landing options,
The ranges around the Victorian alps is very rugged and unforgiving, almost non existent landing options, and Mt Hotham is very tricky in winds above 10 kts, really fun when its 20 kts from the west, as the strip is across the top of a ridge with deep valleys either end and to the northern side. so expect strong downdrafts and severe turbulence on short final.
best time for fantastic scenery is in winter, with a big high pressure system over the area, and temps do get very cold up there!!
Take a camera, you will love it
Looking towards Koscioszko from above charlotte Pass.
Looking north, over Perisher Blue, Cloud 8/8 to the west of the range, scattered and clear to the east.
The main range, heading south, above Charlotte Pass resort.
weather on this trip was 2 days after a front passed, and a high was sitting pretty much over central NSW.
Towards the end of the ski season you can be lucky and get a persistent High sit in the Tasman, or just off the coast leaving the alps fairly clear of high winds and cloud.
Departing Mt Hotham for Flinders island, very rough terrain..
Last edited by Ultralights; 29th May 2014 at 11:18.
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Aussie Bob
I was lifted out of the Wongungarra by the NSCA Iroquois in the late 1980s and deposited at Snowy Ranges after being injured while fire fighting.
They were also operating the Dornier there and came within a bee's dick of losing the empennage and a whole lot more when they attempted to take off in one direction while Ben Buckley was landing in the other (there is a bit of a hill in the middle of the strip).
It was only Ben's quick reactions, spearing off to the right, that averted a major prang.
Magnificent country but a bit of a bastard when it's cold and blowing.
Kaz
Check out Snowy Ranges airstrip on the way, its Australias highest. Lots of good advice above but this trip is easily possible at lower levels than most have suggested.
They were also operating the Dornier there and came within a bee's dick of losing the empennage and a whole lot more when they attempted to take off in one direction while Ben Buckley was landing in the other (there is a bit of a hill in the middle of the strip).
It was only Ben's quick reactions, spearing off to the right, that averted a major prang.
Magnificent country but a bit of a bastard when it's cold and blowing.
Kaz