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Do we mumble on the radio in Oz?

Old 9th Apr 2014, 09:35
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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First, I will confess to being pedantic.
The radio call was never "Traffic Bendigo..." in the 30 years I have read the AIP.
It was once, "All stations Bendigo..", then was changed to "Bendigo traffic...".
No doubt it will be changed again some day.
I encourage juniors to maintain standard phraseology, to their dismay, if only to make life easier when they jump into a shiny big jet. Silly me!
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 09:59
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Tio,

Not that it is a big deal, but you will find it was once "Traffic..." .
I remember clearly (as I was once more pedantic than I am now) when instructing, trying to get my students do 'do it right'.

Just as I have missed the reversion to '.... Traffic' , perhaps you might have missed it also.

Anyone have any documental evidence of the change??
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 12:05
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Depends on how far back you go.

It was certainly "All Stations ...... " when I was a boy!
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 12:44
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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You're right CF but in fact "Traffic XXX..." preceded, or at least co-existed with,the widespread "All stations..." era. I've reached the end of my aviation history (mid-80s) but seem to recall that, while "Traffic XXX.." was not universal, it was widely used and obviously well tolerated in an era where people were generally more anal about such things than they are now.

Flying in the US in the early 90s I remember being impressed with the idea of also adding the CTAF (or whatever it was called there at the time) location to the end of the broadcast, the redundancy making for better communication on crowded frequencies. That was a later change for the better here.

We're in danger of having the thread re-titled "communications trivia" or some such
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 12:49
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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The current proliferation of non standard radio phraseology packed with 'currently', 'traffic south of the equator' and 'inbound from Los Angeles' (who cares where you were 14 hours ago, where are you now?) is the worst I can remember, and just clogs the airways. Sadly the AIP has much of the information removed, and replaced with bunkum.
'Currently' is not in he AIP either, but has been adopted as a standard.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 13:07
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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If you cannot make out a transmission and have no idea who said it, but have an inkling it might be relevant to you, what's a nice way of asking "Last transmssion, WTF did you say?"
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 14:19
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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VH-XXX:

Perhaps... but....

Here is a classic example of why a radial is a bad idea.... McGrath50 has just turned it around (be it by accident or just for the purposes of the conversation) and used the term "on the 260 bearing." Is the high speed PC9 on a 260 bearing, heading west, or is he inbound on the 260 radial?
A "high speed PC9" would not make such a ridiculous call. He/she would say "inbound on the 260 RADIAL". It's not rocket science. If the airport had an NDB instead, he/she would say "inbound on the 260 BEARING".

A radial is ONLY applicable to a VOR. Another common, incorrect use of phraseology.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 19:19
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Correct you are vnav.... The point was that as soon as I mentioned a radial, the other poster reversed it and seemingly confused with a bearing, either intentionally or not. For those not briefed in the specifics, both are easily confused.
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Old 9th Apr 2014, 20:09
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Couldn't agree more.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 00:16
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Late night PPRuNeing strikes again! You are right, I used bearing when you said radial. How about its an airport with both an NDB and VOR and my plane is only ADF equipped?

I also abbreviated the correct call, let's try "East Sale Traffic, ABC, PC9, 32 miles to the west inbound on the 260 radial (or bearing, would be just about the same give or take a few degrees)"

Should probably throw in an altitude there. Now we have the pedantry out of the way (I seriously hope I got it correct this time), what is so hard for a first solo nav student to understand? If he catches 32 miles to the west but doesn't understand the radial and there's conflict, speak up and ask. I know I didn't have a grasp on bearings and radials on my first solo nav, but my gosh I should have, it's not difficult if someone takes 5 mins to explain it to you!

One thing my instructor did instill in me though before I blasted off was if someone makes a call you don't understand better to ask them, in plain english if necessary. We've all been the solo student coming face to face with a dash on an IFR approach you've never heard of. No (good) pilot is going to think any less of you for speaking up. It's the guys who don't that cause problems.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 01:04
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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I support the "Traffic Oodnagalahby,..." instead of placing the name first - because when the fumble-fingered switch flicker cuts off half of his first word, we will still know where he is, instead of having to wait until the end of his call for him to repeat the place name.

Also for the IFR people to include VFR descriptions:

"Traffic Kingaroy, Cessna Whisky Delta Echo, 6 miles northwest at 3700', turning inbound on the NDB, traffic Kingaroy"

"Traffic Hervey Bay, helicopter Hotel Echo Gecko, 10 miles northwest approaching Whisky Foxtrot for straight-in approach runway 11 Hervey Bay"
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 02:36
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Late night PPRuNeing strikes again! You are right, I used bearing when you said radial. How about its an airport with both an NDB and VOR and my plane is only ADF equipped?
So you're navigating with reference to the NDB - say 'bearing'. I get your point, although I've heard many people say 'radial' at an NDB only equipped aerodrome. And, not just light aircraft!

I know I didn't have a grasp on bearings and radials on my first solo nav, but my gosh I should have, it's not difficult if someone takes 5 mins to explain it to you!
Agreed.

Last edited by VNAV_PTH; 10th Apr 2014 at 02:38. Reason: Dyslexia
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 07:43
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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'Currently' is not in he AIP either, but has been adopted as a standard.
So agree with (and hate) that one!!!

Are you there now or not?!??

Ps, the word "time" shouldn't be used either.

This thread is starting to remind me of a Rod Stewart song....not just drifting, but
"We are sailing....we are sailing...."
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 08:26
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VH-XXX View Post
Some would argue that it's not the words that are important, but the numbers

eg.
- Freqencies
- Read-backs
- FL's
- Transponder codes
Flight Number Callsigns....
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 08:42
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Makeithappencaptain, to clarify my position. 'Currently' does not exist, and has never existed to my knowledge in the AIP, but is used universally because some clown thought it sounds good. My position on the word - 'currently' - non standard and rubbish.

Ascend Charlie, you are part of the problem. Create you own non standard phraseology, having not correctly transitioned to the new format and then advocate this on a professional forum.

TIO 540 has been in hibernation for many years, and is now returning to the cave. Safe flying!
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 09:17
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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What's everyone's thought on "IFR Taxi" and "IFR Departure". The AIP doesn't say much about those either, does it just come down to a courtesy?
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 09:40
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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TIO540

I am agreeing with you 100%.
You can have "departed (location) (time in minutes)", be "estimating (first or next reporting point) at (time in minutes)", but I ain't never seen no "currently" (not to mention "this time").

Seneca208

As for "IFR departure/taxi", didn't you submit a flight plan?
Aren't they expecting a call from you?
When you were given a code and traffic (which should NOT need to be "requested") didn't that start a sarwatch of ten minutes for your departure?

The only iFR call that needs a notification/announcement is a position report.

Yo ho ho...
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 10:21
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Seneca,

The AIP used to state that IFR was to be included in the taxi call. Like many of the calls we are discussing here, the AIP has changed many of them, and a lot of us are not keeping up with the changes
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 10:37
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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What's everyone's thought on "IFR Taxi" and "IFR Departure". The AIP doesn't say much about those either, does it just come down to a courtesy?
NO! It clogs up the airways with extra calls. If ATC wanted us to give them a "warning", then AsA would put it in the book. And obviously, "standing by" to give your departure report is silly because it also serves as a broadcast to Dick and his VFR mates who may be in the vicinity.

"IFR Taxi" "Taxi? I don't see any taxis around here, let alone an IFR one".
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 11:07
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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I think I almost got a full house of shite radio calls when listening to a recent soliloquy:

"Traffic XXXXX, IFR King Air, 40 DME GPS South of the field, descending from airways on descent to 3000, estimating the circuit at time 35, traffic XXXXX"

Clearly Little Man syndrome, who wanted to impress us lowly local traffic with details of his equipment, including its installation, the fact that he'd been flying SO high (because he can) and to top his ineptitude with 'time'. I think I'll start ending my calls with an estimate in bananas; it's an extraneous and bulls*#t transmission so maybe it'll catch on
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