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MERGED: Skydivers Feared Dead In Light Plane Crash Caboolture

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MERGED: Skydivers Feared Dead In Light Plane Crash Caboolture

Old 15th Apr 2017, 11:32
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 05:12
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Report is finally out. https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...-2014-053.aspx

SMS and some other safety recommendations for Sky Dive ops by the looks.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 07:01
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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So much for; "don't speculate, wait for the report". Not very much to it after all that time.

Last edited by spinex; 24th Jun 2017 at 02:36. Reason: grammar
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 07:34
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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The classification of parachute ops has been a recurring theme in ATSB reports for over a decade. CASA don't care and it would seem that the APF are either incompetent or willfully negligent.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 08:52
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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The classification of parachute ops has been a recurring theme in ATSB reports for over a decade.
Yes, an interesting statement in the report:

CASA has treated the airlift component of skydiving as a private operation because CASA considers that the payment made by the parachutists is for the descent from the aircraft, not flight in the aircraft

I wonder how you would go arguing that payment is for the holiday, not the flight to the holiday location?

One thing did catch my attention:

Transfer marks from the propeller blade pitch change linkages on the propeller hub internal components indicated that the propeller blades were in fine pitch on contact with terrain. Fine pitch is the normal propeller blade position for take-off and low-speed flight.

Do they mean the propeller was on the fine pitch stops? I would have thought that at flying speed & full power, the propeller would be off the stops and in the governing range. If it's on the stops, it suggests the engine wasn't (or was barely) producing enough power to reach the selected RPM.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 10:01
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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CASA has treated the airlift component of skydiving as a private operation because CASA considers that the payment made by the parachutists is for the descent from the aircraft, not flight in the aircraft
That's because everyone is required to join the APF as a member prior to the jump - it's included in the price, and you just sign the membership form. As such you are deemed to be a student skydiver, and the aircraft ride is incidental to the jump.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 11:48
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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That's because everyone is required to join the APF as a member prior to the jum
Still a load of horseshit.

Ask any DZ operator and even they openly admit the skydive is for free, it's the ride to height that you are paying for. You pay whether you get out or not.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 11:58
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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At one time they did care...CAsA CNS bitched on about drop passengers being flown aloft by PPLs ..but CPLs were required to freight crabs from the Cape.! I kid you not.

My reponse was. oi, thems your rules and anyway the divers/passengers make an informed choice to get aboard or not... and bail out anyway, having paid for a dive down not a flight up.
The crabs dont buy a ticket or have a choice anyway. No informed choice on whether to fly by very unsafe SE charter. (see the Cape record for fatal accidents)

Since they reckon its a 'sport' hence the current disinterest and requirement to pay to be a temporary APF member to prove yre in the 'sport',
And thus its not a commercial operation. Really !!
Its one bit of GA making some good dosh.
And its all about CAsAs legal acrobatics and discrepant wording.
No accountability or liability either.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 12:01
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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CASA has treated the airlift component of skydiving as a private operation because CASA considers that the payment made by the parachutists is for the descent from the aircraft, not flight in the aircraft.
The only adjective I can think of is: Orwellian.

In the case of the parachutist passengers, CASA considers that the passengers are paying money only for what happens after they leave the aircraft.

But if a pilot flies passengers from - say - Adelaide to - say - Kangaroo Island for "free" for a holiday stay at accommodation owned and charged for by the pilot, CASA considers that the money paid by the passengers is part of an overall transaction for services that include the flight and therefore the flight is for a commercial purpose.

Passengers paying for enjoyment of experience X are apparently on board a private flight from A to B if X happens to be a parachute jump, but on board a commercial flight if X happens to be a holiday at Kangaroo Island. It's OK for a private pilot to be paid to carry the parachutists passengers to point B in the sky, by it's not OK for the same pilot to be paid to carry the same passengers to point B on the ground.

In the case of the parachutist passengers, apparently the money paid is attributable only to what happens after they exit the aircraft; not so for other passengers.

The safety basis for these distinctions are obvious: No fare paying passenger has ever died in parachute operations.

Orwellian.

Classification of operations rules have been broken forever, and it's obvious that CASA is incapable of fixing them.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 12:35
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Fortunately, shares in 'Skydive the Beach Group Ltd' remained constant at 66c today. Apparently there's no sudden market fears from the ATSB report..
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 12:54
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Of course not: It's a private operation because CASA and ATSB say so.

Great for the share price of an organisation that makes money from fare paying passengers only after they have been magically delivered to thousands of feet in the sky.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 13:12
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Parachuting & Private ops.





CASA and Ostriches have one thing in common - head in the sand.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 00:41
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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having paid for a dive down not a flight up
I guess if you take the flight up, lose your nerve, don't jump, fly back down and land, you get a full refund of monies paid. No?
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 02:27
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Of course. The flight itself is free.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 02:43
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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The plane was due to dive from 14,000 feet onto the beach at Bribie Island.
Seriously. Such is the state of our national broadcaster.


Full article here, if you dare.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 05:12
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This sounds similar to a crash where the pilots seat wasn't actually locked into place, and with the pilots hands on the throttle and controls, the aircraft took off, the seat rolled back and they consequently pulled the plane up and cut the throttle.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 07:41
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Also similar to other skydiving accidents in different aircraft with a non - adjustable pilot seat...
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 08:58
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
Many of you obviously believe that (as CASA does) that more regulation is the answer to everything.
Bring it on, let's boost the CASA payroll so that every flight is "notified" and "approved" (I am not kidding, it was suggested at the very first meeting of the now disbanded SCC in about 2001 or 02) --- and we used to do that for every flight over 50nm.
How about a check flight for every pilot, every time, before you go flying.
How about a LAME signed off pre-flight or at least a LAME for every daily inspection ---- a favorite of the ALAEA.
Or what else would you like??
Don't worry about the cost, how can you put a value on human life??
After all, with enough regulation we will reach nirvana, nothing flying and we all know "Empty Skies are Safe Skies".

Tooter pip!!

PS: And get real about risk the aeroplane part of the skydive "experience" is statistically the lowest risk (safest -- if you insist on that word) segment..

Last edited by LeadSled; 24th Jun 2017 at 09:36.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 10:16
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Unlocking seats are not that rare - i had mine let go on rotation in an Aerocommander - a short moment of excitement, but the machine was trimmed reasonably well, and hooking my toes under the pedals let me pull the seat back to the normal position. Helped a bit by the pax in the seat behind.

Made darn sure on next leg to rock the seat thoroughly before takeoff to confirm it was properly on the tracks.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 13:31
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Whoever wrote that Headline for the ABC should be ashamed of themselves, pure clickbait bullsh*t.

It could have been a shifting seat, it could have been an Engine Malfunction, or a Control Surface Malfunction, for all we know it COULD have been Magic or Aliens that did it, hell maybe an invisible Pegasus flew through and created some wake turbulence?! So sick of seeing this sort of thing from "Journalists", they should be ashamed of themselves, people died.
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