what are our rights when passing through security???
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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what are our rights when passing through security???
Hello all,
I had my bag checked at Bne Dom today (when in full uniform) for a battery.
I had a bit of a standoff with the security guard as he insisted that he must open my bag, and not me.
He claimed that there was a recent change in legislation which meant he had to physically open my bag, and I wasnt allowed to.
The thought then occurred to me that I really dont know what rights I have, and what rights they have.
Before giving the afap a call in the next day or two to get some info, I thought Id put it out to my fellow aviators of there is any readily available info about it, like a list maybe of rights etc.???
Any help would be great!!!!
Thanks.
Eternity.
I had my bag checked at Bne Dom today (when in full uniform) for a battery.
I had a bit of a standoff with the security guard as he insisted that he must open my bag, and not me.
He claimed that there was a recent change in legislation which meant he had to physically open my bag, and I wasnt allowed to.
The thought then occurred to me that I really dont know what rights I have, and what rights they have.
Before giving the afap a call in the next day or two to get some info, I thought Id put it out to my fellow aviators of there is any readily available info about it, like a list maybe of rights etc.???
Any help would be great!!!!
Thanks.
Eternity.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I think the website is light on information.
You have to provide personal consent for a frisk.
You can withdraw your consent to be screened. In which case you will be denied entry to the sterile area.
Passenger Screening
You have to provide personal consent for a frisk.
You can withdraw your consent to be screened. In which case you will be denied entry to the sterile area.
Passenger Screening
when in full uniform
The screener is correct in saying that he must open the bag although you can refuse and not be allowed through the screening point. The procedures for this are not contained within the act or regs but in the Aviation Screening Notice which is not made publicly available.
As for your rights, you are entitled to be treated with courtesy and respect but under the current regs, not differently to everyone else entering the sterile area.
This sign introduced a few years back covers it quite succinctly
"A person at this screening point is taken, by law, to have consented to undergo a screening procedure (except a frisk search), unless the person refuses to undergo the screening procedure. A person who refuses to undergo a screening procedure will not be allowed through the screening point."
Tell them you want this procedure to take place in a private screening room. They then have to leave their station and also have someone else come with you. It annoys them no end and allows them to conduct their checks. Also if you ask to read the laminated card they can't refuse you. I all of a sudden become dyslexic and it takes a loong time to read.
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Had this happen at BNE too. Annoyed the **** out of me someone rummaging through my skid marked underwear. Surely I could say no, take it back through the screening point, take said item out for individual x-raying and problem solved.
Actually lookleft they probably enjoy it. Breaks the monotony of the 99.9% of those who don't question the procedure. I think you will find it is only a frisk search you can request in a private room. One reason for bag searches is due to the clutter of leads, cables and portable electronic items that the operator cannot clear on the first run.
The reason they also pay attention to batteries, aerosols etc is that as employees of an airline or airport operator they have an obligation under the CASA regs for dangerous goods.
The reason they also pay attention to batteries, aerosols etc is that as employees of an airline or airport operator they have an obligation under the CASA regs for dangerous goods.
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Option 1. Throw it over the fence, go through screening, use ASIC that you can hold with criminal history of drug importation to go airside, pick up item, carry on.
Option 2. Go to alternate security checkpoint. Don't get screened. Carry on
Option 3. Fly in from regional airport. Carry on
Option 4. $10 bolt cutters and a high vis vest for when you are airside. Carry on.
Option 5. Pick fight with imported security officer whose full background could not be verified due to limitations on his country of origins police service (or just simple corruption). Loose fight as Police are called and you are carted away.
Option 2. Go to alternate security checkpoint. Don't get screened. Carry on
Option 3. Fly in from regional airport. Carry on
Option 4. $10 bolt cutters and a high vis vest for when you are airside. Carry on.
Option 5. Pick fight with imported security officer whose full background could not be verified due to limitations on his country of origins police service (or just simple corruption). Loose fight as Police are called and you are carted away.
A few months back I asked a similar question about this here:
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...risations.html
When I was looking into the regs that were available on this topic I found that not much is publicly available, as YPJT has mentioned, however what I did read basically gave the impression that the "screener" can request you to do anything he or she deemed necessary for him or her to be satisfied that you are safe to pass the checkpoint. It seemed so loose worded that they could request that you lie down on the x-ray machine conveyor belt and scan you that way if they wished (I know that is a ridiculous interpretation of the rules but that is how it seems to read).
I spoke to a security person one day about various checking requirements and he mentioned to me that he worked the area that checks people accessing the tarmac for things such as baggage handling, maintenance, etc and he stated that in that area if he wished to look in someone's toolbox or similar that they had to ask the person in question to open up the bag and remove items as appropriate for the purpose of their screening and that they were not actually permitted to do this themselves. I did not think to ask at the time whether or not this also applied to passenger screening as we were discussing checked baggage and he just happen to mention that as well.
I do think that 95% of the time we do get a bit of leeway from the security screeners but we probably get our noses out of joint fairly easy over our being "screened" when something like the above mentioned situation happens, I know I didn't like it when one of them helped themselves to opening my bag, but I think I pass through security easier when I am in uniform than when I am paxing in normal clothes.
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...risations.html
When I was looking into the regs that were available on this topic I found that not much is publicly available, as YPJT has mentioned, however what I did read basically gave the impression that the "screener" can request you to do anything he or she deemed necessary for him or her to be satisfied that you are safe to pass the checkpoint. It seemed so loose worded that they could request that you lie down on the x-ray machine conveyor belt and scan you that way if they wished (I know that is a ridiculous interpretation of the rules but that is how it seems to read).
I spoke to a security person one day about various checking requirements and he mentioned to me that he worked the area that checks people accessing the tarmac for things such as baggage handling, maintenance, etc and he stated that in that area if he wished to look in someone's toolbox or similar that they had to ask the person in question to open up the bag and remove items as appropriate for the purpose of their screening and that they were not actually permitted to do this themselves. I did not think to ask at the time whether or not this also applied to passenger screening as we were discussing checked baggage and he just happen to mention that as well.
I do think that 95% of the time we do get a bit of leeway from the security screeners but we probably get our noses out of joint fairly easy over our being "screened" when something like the above mentioned situation happens, I know I didn't like it when one of them helped themselves to opening my bag, but I think I pass through security easier when I am in uniform than when I am paxing in normal clothes.
You have the right to refuse.... If you do, you will be banned from entry to a secure area for 24 hours.
You can grin and bare it, and be on your way!
Your choice! They don't care one way or the other!
You can grin and bare it, and be on your way!
Your choice! They don't care one way or the other!
Ok, I'm going to play Devils Advocate here folks. Sure we all get a bit annoyed at security being a bit uptight but remember they feel they have obligations to keep us all safe no matter what and they have obligations from their employers that probably don't even really make sense to them, you might think "I'm Aircrew, I go through all the time and have a myriad of ways to sneak stuff through, why even bother with me?", next time they're on your flight they might be thinking "I'm a paying passenger, why can't I just take a measly extra kilo onboard?" and the answer to both of those questions? Because they have a job to do set down to them by their bosses and at the end of the day they want to keep their job, get their pay and pay off their mortgage etc...
On the specific situation, I can fully understand the whole idea of them having to open the bag instead of you, makes sense if you think about it. If there is a dangerous object inside that bag such as a bomb you could easily open the bag and detonate it or if it was a projectile weapon you could open the bag, pull it out and fire it at one of them.
Of course we all know that as operating crew we could very easily just push the stick forward if we wanted to crash the plane, grab the crash axe if we wanted to hijack it or if you're really lucky pull out the gun and just go a little bananas, but that isn't THEIR concern, their concern is to make sure that:
A. Weapons don't make it onboard
B. Contraband doesn't make it onboard
If they are being pricks about it then surely there must be some way to report them, perhaps someone can shed some light on that process instead?
If the laws are retarded (Yes they are!) Then all we could possibly do is mount a campaign to change them but lets be honest it probably won't do jack anyway.
On the specific situation, I can fully understand the whole idea of them having to open the bag instead of you, makes sense if you think about it. If there is a dangerous object inside that bag such as a bomb you could easily open the bag and detonate it or if it was a projectile weapon you could open the bag, pull it out and fire it at one of them.
Of course we all know that as operating crew we could very easily just push the stick forward if we wanted to crash the plane, grab the crash axe if we wanted to hijack it or if you're really lucky pull out the gun and just go a little bananas, but that isn't THEIR concern, their concern is to make sure that:
A. Weapons don't make it onboard
B. Contraband doesn't make it onboard
If they are being pricks about it then surely there must be some way to report them, perhaps someone can shed some light on that process instead?
If the laws are retarded (Yes they are!) Then all we could possibly do is mount a campaign to change them but lets be honest it probably won't do jack anyway.
We all now that in any security system it's only as strong as it's weakest link.
Those 'links' exist everywhere & for the most part the std security crap we have to endure is purely to make the boffins feel good. There's so many holes in the system that it leaks daily I'd say!
I've had a few run ins with the goons over the years so now just shake my head!
Fortunately I kinda know most of the security folk at Tulla & it's more a formality these days as far as I am concerned. The guys there tell me that DOTARS can & do pass thru disguised as a bogun pax meaning they are under constant screening themselves.
I often hear pax coming in behind me say how come pilots have to get checked to? I feel like saying we pilots are the biggest threat
Common sense & legislation just don't seem to share the same page!
Wmk2
Those 'links' exist everywhere & for the most part the std security crap we have to endure is purely to make the boffins feel good. There's so many holes in the system that it leaks daily I'd say!
I've had a few run ins with the goons over the years so now just shake my head!
Fortunately I kinda know most of the security folk at Tulla & it's more a formality these days as far as I am concerned. The guys there tell me that DOTARS can & do pass thru disguised as a bogun pax meaning they are under constant screening themselves.
I often hear pax coming in behind me say how come pilots have to get checked to? I feel like saying we pilots are the biggest threat
Common sense & legislation just don't seem to share the same page!
Wmk2
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Don't forget that the Security Operative is just doing their job. They don't make the rules and they don't even interpret them themselves, they are told how to do it.
For example, as part of my job I have a tools pass that allows me to bring shotguns, firearms and hundreds of rounds of ammunition (including explosive projectiles) into the secure area. But I cant bring my yoghurt through. Why? Because the Liquids Regs prevent me from doing so.
The security staff think its as stupid as I do but they have to do it or risk either losing their jobs or potentially (in absolute extreme cases) face criminal charges of endangering aviation safety. They aren't allowed the discretion to say that other equipment I carry is infinitely more dangerous as they have to comply with and enforce the regs rigidly or they will lose their jobs.
For example, as part of my job I have a tools pass that allows me to bring shotguns, firearms and hundreds of rounds of ammunition (including explosive projectiles) into the secure area. But I cant bring my yoghurt through. Why? Because the Liquids Regs prevent me from doing so.
The security staff think its as stupid as I do but they have to do it or risk either losing their jobs or potentially (in absolute extreme cases) face criminal charges of endangering aviation safety. They aren't allowed the discretion to say that other equipment I carry is infinitely more dangerous as they have to comply with and enforce the regs rigidly or they will lose their jobs.
Sprucegoose
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You can grin and bare it, and be on your way!
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Yeah it's there job and blah blah blah. Still doesn't excuse the rudness of the majority of them.
They may have the right to go through your bag without asking, but make it feel like a choice. Be courtious and polite like we are expected to be.
"Is this your bag sir? Do you mind if I open it? It looks like you may have 'x' that needs to be screened serperatly."
You catch more bees with honey............
They may have the right to go through your bag without asking, but make it feel like a choice. Be courtious and polite like we are expected to be.
"Is this your bag sir? Do you mind if I open it? It looks like you may have 'x' that needs to be screened serperatly."
You catch more bees with honey............
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BNE security seem to be over to the top, i had 11mm spanner with me, NZ security let it through, they just wanted to 'sight it' back through BNE, no you can't carry this, put up a small arguement and left with out, I looked at the rules and you can't carry sharp objects/tools or 'tools/objects large enough to cause bodily harm'. I will dispute it next time.
like a lot of guys have said, they have thier job to do...
like a lot of guys have said, they have thier job to do...