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Cost of 100 hourly's

Old 18th Nov 2017, 05:25
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Or put the crows foot on so it is 90 degrees - or the extension for props.

If the daily calls for checking the correct inflation of the tyres where do you record your special tool used serial number and next due cal date?
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 05:35
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At least the car dealership can find new ways to extract cash from your hip pocket!

$25.00 environmental levee for disposing of the old oil- next time I will be taking in a 5 litre drum and bypassing this little revenue earner!
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 06:59
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Stationair,

Supply customer with waste oil in 5lt drum (supplied) as requested - min charge 0.25 hr @ $157.00 = $39.25.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 14:20
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Stationair8,
If it is NSW, a substantial proportion of that levy (samesame tyres, $30 min. to use the local tip etc.) goes to Consolidated Revenue, not into the service station's pocket.
Tootle Pip!!

PS: Bend alot: For gaaawwwds sake, don't 'm ideas. They already "require" a minimum size "REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT" placard INSIDE canopy covers "in clear view of the pilot when seated".
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 09:00
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I am considering buying an aircraft but overwhelmed of the costs involved, can anyone give constructive feedback?

My way of thinking is
1) It is an asset
2) You have control over it
An aircraft is a depreciating high cost liability rather than an asset. Unless you are using it regularly for business or have a way of making money with it, forget it.

Look at purchase cost, insurance (inexperienced pilot), hangarage, maintenance, landing fees, fuel etc. I'm assuming you don't know too much about aircraft at this stage and wouldn't be able to tell what to avoid, a salesman will smell this a mile off. Do you know what an A/D, service bulletin and TBO are ? Don't be embarrassed, I'd be the same if I was looking at a yacht.

Learning to fly, you will probably start out on a simple type such as a C152 and move onto constant speed prop/retractable gear and finish off on a basic twin so 2-3 different types before your CPL is issued.

Having control means if the aircraft goes U/S while you're training you have to get it repaired compared to the school finding you another one.

Purchase appreciating assets such as property, lease depreciating ones.

If it flies, floats or f****, rent it.
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 10:15
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I don't earn bucket loads of cash and I've owned half a dozen aircraft over 20 years. The choices you make need to be wise ones though to be able to afford to be as broke as
I am :-)
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 21:01
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Originally Posted by A Squared
Actually, there is. I came across it when I was reading he Cleveland Wheels and Brakes Maintenance instructions manual for changing tires on my 180 (Yeah, I can do that in the US)
Just had a look at the Cleveland wheels and brakes on the ATP site, there is no value for torque on the valve cap. I feel the noise about the valve cap is just made up.
I noticed recently some aircraft tyres with the black plastic valve cap - what wrench do you torquee people use for this?
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 21:41
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dean
Just had a look at the Cleveland wheels and brakes on the ATP site, there is no value for torque on the valve cap. I feel the noise about the valve cap is just made up.
I noticed recently some aircraft tyres with the black plastic valve cap - what wrench do you torquee people use for this?
Taking a second look at the instructions, I guess it's a torque value for the inflation stem, not the cap.
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 21:45
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I noticed recently some aircraft tyres with the black plastic valve cap
Could this be because they are using tubes for a boat trailer tyre rather than an aircraft tyre?

Or it could be the typically skint aircraft owner having a forage in the area of the servo where he last pumped up the tyres of his car for tyre valve caps lost by previous motorists and using them on his aircraft.
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 21:46
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Originally Posted by A Squared
Taking a second look at the instructions, I guess it's a torque value for the inflation stem, not the cap.
It definitely is for the stem, for tubeless tyres, the give away is 60 inch lbs
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 21:47
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Originally Posted by Possum1
Could this because they are using tubes for a boat trailer tyre rather than an aircraft tyre?

Or it could be the typically skint aircraft owner having a forage in the area of the servo where he last pumped up the tyres of his car for tyre valve caps lost by previous motorists and using them on his aircraft.
No was on yet to be fitted tube.
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 21:52
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Originally Posted by Possum1
Could this be because they are using tubes for a boat trailer tyre rather than an aircraft tyre?

Or it could be the typically skint aircraft owner having a forage in the area of the servo where he last pumped up the tyres of his car for tyre valve caps lost by previous motorists and using them on his aircraft.
Meh, so what? For the record, all my valve stems have the yellow painted metal caps which came with the tubes, but can you explain how safety would be compromised if one went missing and I replaced it with a plastic cap from an automobile tire?
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Old 19th Nov 2017, 21:59
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Metal caps are supposed to retain pressure if the valve leaks
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 00:18
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Eddie Dean,
In my case the 10 inch pounds was in the fine print of the paperwork that came with the tube (not a valve fitting for a tubeless tyre), but I have also seen it in general fitting instructions for more than one brand.
In each case, for the little metal yellow cap, it has been 10 inch pounds.

That it is not in ATP docs. is not definitive, it is the "MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS ----- da da da " that count.

As for "made up" you remind me of a colleague in another state, who, for years, was of the view that some of the horror stories she heard about CASA were "made up" to cover people who "must have been guilty, otherwise why would CASA have taken action".

Then her long standing "airworthiness surveyor" (there is an old term for you) retired and a new full on crusading AWI turned up, and she was comprehensively "done over". Even had to fend off a charge of having "unapproved aviation parts and components on a CASA approved site" ---- they were bits of an outboard motor that one of the guys was working on.

In another case, the AWI decided that whole Experimental Amateur Built aircraft were not "aircraft" (or some such description) in law and should not even be in the same hangar as ICAO Annex 8 C.of A aircraft maintenance, and forced that company to move such aircraft and Recreational Aviation Australia registered aircraft to a separate hangar.

He also got into trouble with his license due recent experience, said CASA AWI claimed that working on non-Annex 8 aircraft did not count for the recent experience requirement for working in the industry -- I forget the precise words in the regulations.

That LAME, one of the most conscientious and thorough aircraft maintenance persons I have ever known (and I have known a few) as a result of the continual debilitating CASA harassment, got out of the aviation business.

Indeed, for a time, we were flying aircraft out of the jurisdiction of that CASA office, because doing an annual or a 100 H inspection was a nightmare of randomly imposed additional requirements. We could not afford the costs and delays, particularly the delays of not being able to close up a job on completion, until this AWI has made his own "condition inspection", which he dd at his leisure.

Given my long experience, I have no trouble believing any horror stories of CASA atrocities.

Tootle Pip!!

PS: A while back, one office went on a purge of registration letters, size, proportion, and especially not vertical. As I am sure you, with your experience, know that incorrect portions of rego. letters is a leading cause of death and destruction in aviation, and probably also causes ingrown toenails and post-natal depression.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 09:47
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Seem to recall if the torque is not specified - use the standard torque for the thread size often listed in the chart in the Aircraft Maintenance Manuals or then I think AC43-13 as standard practices (if allowed) by Aircraft Manufacturer.

Note - every thing has a "torque" even if it says finger tight!

Now what is the torque on the Lyco dip stick?
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 18:41
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Originally Posted by LeadSled
Folks,
Just a few comments on the US/Australia thing.

Our Schedule 5 is almost the same as the US equivalent, Part 43 Appendix D, indeed Schedule 5 was copied from Appendix D, but with a couple of "Australianisms" added --- surprise, surprise.

Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with Schedule 5 as an inspection schedule, but a "System of Maintenance" it is not--- even when we "copy" the US, we still screw up, usually because those in DCA/DoT/CAA/CASA/whatever, do not have enough experience and knowledge to understand the whole US system.

We ALWAYS have to reinvent the wheel, and wind up with one with sharp corners.

One of those Schedule 5 "Australianisms" requires the LAME to sign that the aircraft will remain serviceable until the next scheduled inspection, and LAMEs have been very harshly treated when an apparent un-serviceability down the line has resulted in death of injury. I understand that this results in Hangar Keepers insurance (by whatever name) being far more expensive in Australia than US.

By contrast, the US A&P/IAs have a "hangar door' responsibility, as the aeroplane rolls out the hangar door, it is airworthy (in the legal sense) and meets the TCDS, including any Airworthiness Directives, ie: the type design.
After is flies away, all best are off, unless fraud negligence is involved --- which means, effectively, that the return to service document was falsely completed. A bit of a simplification, but you get the drift.

For the great majority of US GA type aircraft, the "Manufacturer's Maintenance Instructions", by whatever name, supplement Appendix D, (and that is how they are written), not the other way around, as is assumed here.

Our Schedule 8 is very similar to the US equivalent, in both cases, listed items have to be carried out using appropriate ( short US description) or "approved" (Australia) maintenance data.

With a Schedule 8 battery change, how do you do it legally without CASA approved battery charging facilities in a CASA approved workshop.

How do you repair a tyre or tube if you can't (legally) jack the aircraft to remove the wheel --- jacking being "secret LAME's business".

As one poster says, you can't fix stupid, the scope of what is now known as Schedule 8 has been whittled down over the years as a result of pressure (all based on concern for safety, you understand) by both the LAMEs union and proprietors of aircraft maintenance facilities.

Strangely, members of said union working for CASA in Airworthiness (whatever it is called this week) have always been very accommodating of their comrade's "safety" concerns.
Likewise, maintenance business's "safety concerns" about private owners or pilots doing any work on their aircraft is never tinged with any thought of loss of potential revenue.

I do hope you all have your approved calibrated device to reinstall valve caps if you daringly venture to check tyre pressures, correctly torquing those valve caps is a really major safety issue --- NOT!! But a potentially very expensive strict liability criminal offense it is.

Whoever said lockable hangars are so you can "do things" safe from prying eyes is saying something more true than he/she even thinks. That is the place to wash you windscreen, rather than commit such a blatant crime in public --- unless, of course, you have Manufacturer's Maintenance Instructions (to the satisfaction of CASA) to carry out this critical safety task. Do you?? LAMEs?? Pilots?? Owners??

We would do well to adopt the whole US approach to Continuing Airworthiness (not "maintenance" - continuing airworthiness) of aircraft, but not only will it not happen, but in recent years we have taken great leaps backwards. And I do mean "the whole approach", not just "the law".

For airlines, the answer is easy, they do not, by and large, do major maintenance in Australia any longer (and it is NOT cheap Asian labor) --- just a little bit to keep politicians quiet.

All very sad, and all part of the picture of the collapse of GA, particularly private and business GA, in Australia.

Tootle Pip!!

PS: In my experience, the average US privately owned light aircraft is in far better state of repair and presentation, and airworthiness, than is common with what little is left here.

We should change your name to the queen of spin.

There is no tq for a valve cap. There is a tq for the valve its self and this was picked up by an ex raaf personal now a awi.
A m/r is issued for all work to be carried out piour to the release of the m/r and all work that is require in the next service interval to be noted in part 1 of the issued m/r. Once again your wrong. How after an accident in Victoria a jugde said that the issue of an m/r means nothing will go wrong with the aircraft. Even casa said that this was not the intent in the court case.
An owner can jack an aircraft as long as he/she jacks one wheel at a time. The aircraft is not allowed to jacked completely of the ground. Once again read the regs.
As for the quaitly of usa aircraft. Well im sure ive seen more usa aircraft more intermittently than yourself an once again i can safley say you are incorrect.

As for battery charging. This is once again misleading. If your aircraft is ifr YOU cant charge the battery.

Last edited by Connedrod; 20th Nov 2017 at 18:57.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 18:54
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As for pilot owner maintenance. The biggest problem is they dont take ownership of the maintenance they carry out. Ie the dont make a statement on the M/R. This leads any proplems onto the person that release tne aircraft.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 20:29
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No wonder Australian aviation is such a mess
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 23:04
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Just for the record. We carry out our own oil and oil filter changes between 100hlys on our aircraft and sign off the MR as required. If you know of owners who don't then enlighten them to the requirement to do so.If they won't then tell them to find another LAME.
I would imagine most aircraft based in the bush get a certain amount of owner maintenance.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 23:15
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The biggest problem is they dont take ownership of the maintenance they carry out. Ie the dont make a statement on the M/R. This leads any proplems onto the person that release tne aircraft.
Perhaps. Or maybe if you can demonstrate that the owner did maintenance without properly documenting it, it becomes harder to prove who actually last maintained a system? If the owner is meticulous in their records and the last person to perform maintenance was the LAME that is more clear cut.
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