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Jabiru Bad experience

Old 23rd Jan 2014, 03:24
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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They aren't made in China.... yet. Some Chinese made components are in testing at the moment. The sump which is a major part of the engine in terms of cost, is actually cast by our Trans-Tasman neighbours in New Zealand.

All currently Australian made in Bundaberg in a custom built multi-million dollar cad/design shop.
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 03:34
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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made in Bundaberg in a custom built multi-million dollar cad/design shop.

multi million dollar facility eh.
well that makes it all perfectly ok then.




the end product is still unreliable crap.
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 03:39
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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XXX works for Jabiru
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 03:41
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah that's right Jack. I work in their airconditioned Melbourne based satellite office We do all of their test flying out of the Melbourne CBD.

multi million dollar facility eh.
Just sayin'

W8 - just when I was about to buy 2 jabiru engines mick had his shed a conrod and seize in flight.
Your secret is out W8

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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 03:49
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Turning it into a drone would be safer for the pilot community
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 03:58
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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I looked at a Jabiru 3300 for the project, but after reading of the horrific reliability issues and the stupidity of their cylinder head design, not to mention the voodoo necessary to cool them evenly and then of course their known carburettor issues (swirl vanes and flow straighteners anyone?) I gave them a big miss.

The UL power uncertified engines grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over helicopter engines.

The South African Jabiru fuel injection project grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over carburetion.

The liquid cooled heads project grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over cylinder head cooling and sealing.

Frankly, I want nothing to do with a company that isn't prepared to engage with its customer base, admit its fault and actively work with its customers to improve its product.


I now have a 912 iS sitting in its box, and I know that engine was tested in real life in Africa with crap fuel and a less than perfect operating environment and according to the people Im in contact with, it passed with flying colours.
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 04:02
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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xxx you can wind away all you like.

one engine was for son's corby starlet and one was for an aeroengineer for a totally new design. design is now shelved until a reliable engine can be found.
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 04:21
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Just pushing ya buttons W8, I dind't really think you were building a Jabiru Twin.

Sunfish says - I now have a 912 iS sitting in its box
Sorry for the drift and I'm sure I'll get accused of Rotax bashing, however that's actually quite amusing because Rotax are having significant problems with this engine at present. If you read Rotax's own publications they only produced a fuel injected version to please their customers who kept on telling them to get with the times and fit fuel injection. Experts have suggested that they released it to market too quickly.

There's one in Tassie that regularly flies to Vic or at least it used to until it spent months in a hangar at LTV whilst parts were continually shipped back and forth from Germany. Problems with the injection system. All the experts were at a loss to work out what went wrong and when it was "fixed" it burped and farted the second half of the trip to Tassie again. I have also heard numerous other reports of issues, but on the other hand have also heard a number of good stories.

I would be fairly confident that they will resolve them however if it's been sitting on your floor for a while Sunfish, you may want to talk to Floods about whether the early issues have been addressed.
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 04:38
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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yes, said before, 912 is exceptionally good engine, not sure variants can say the same yet
Some upset 912iS owners around the world
variable engine performance, poor starting. I too believe they will sort it out but like anything man made will take some time to get there.
Reckon Jabiru might have smaller R&D budget than Bombardier and they still have product development issues with a product they have included on other models for 10 yrs or more.
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 04:41
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Jab powered drones running around Middle east I believe
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 10:11
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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I work in their airconditioned Melbourne based satellite office We do all of their test flying out of the Melbourne CBD.
ahhh so that explains the Jabiru excuse that some are operating them in the incorrect weather zones in Australia leading to some failures...

There's one in Tassie that regularly flies to Vic or at least it used to until it spent months in a hangar at LTV whilst parts were continually shipped back and forth from Germany. Problems with the injection system. All the experts were at a loss to work out what went wrong and when it was "fixed" it burped and farted the second half of the trip to Tassie again. I have also heard numerous other reports of issues, but on the other hand have also heard a number of good stories.

I would be fairly confident that they will resolve them
At least Rotax are actively working to resolve the problems with operators, unlike Jab who just seam to keep blaming the operators, and hiding away all failed components and not finding out what causes the issues..

and from what i have been reading, the issues with the 912Is most of the issues are computer and sensor related, the mechanicals of the engine are sound as always. its not going the throw a rod, snap a through bolt, drop a valve etc. a 912IS would make a great replacement for my 912ULS when its reaches TBO. would give me an 8 hour endurance!
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Old 24th Jan 2014, 04:26
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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failed ECU sure can mean all those things
Anyway whatever the problem no noise = landing
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Old 3rd Mar 2015, 17:12
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Jabiru engine

My 2011 J230SP LSA has 435 hours on it with no engine trouble. I almost always cruise at 2850-2900 rpm's.

The first thing my mechanic did when I bought the plane (new) was re-baffle the engine which resulted in an average reduction in CHT's of 65 degrees farenheit. The factory baffling is inferior which results in higher operating temperatures than are necessary.

If my choice was to correct the baffling and risk the factory's ire or live with the inferior factory baffling and replace the engine, I'd opt for the former.

And BTW, has anyone had the pleasure of an engine out in flight due to improper venting of the fuel tanks from the factory? I did, twice, and there's a simple fix to prevent it.
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 07:01
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Two UK engine failures

Engine 1 had 43 hours total since new
Engine 2 had 49 hours total since new



"Three cylinders and their associated pistons were taken to the Materials Department at QinetiQ (Farnborough) for detailed metallurgical examination. Examination of the three cylinders showed that No 3 piston and cylinder exhibited characteristics similar to the No 3 piston and cylinder from G-CEED. The piston/cylinder head interface exhibited sooting on one side of the cylinder, with the corresponding edge of the piston exhibiting burn-through (Figure 2). The internal surface of the cylinder showed evidence of minor wear and material pick-up from the piston at the point of the piston burn‑through. Skirt wear was observed on the piston similar to that observed in the examination of the engine from G-CEED. Minor wear was observed below the burn-through with the opposite skirt exhibiting more severe wear. The other two pistons both exhibited skirt wear similar to the No 3 piston. One of the pistons showed evidence of damage to the edge of the piston crown with reciprocating wear and material pick-up on the internal surface of the cylinder. The damage appeared to be purely mechanical, with no evidence of burn-through as seen in the No 3 piston.
Examination of the piston rings and oil scraper rings showed that the lower piston ring was seized in the closed position on one of the pistons and on another the upper ring was seized at the area of the damage, so that it was flush with the piston edge. The other end of the piston ring was free to move. On the No 3 piston both the lower piston ring and oil scraper ring were seized in the closed position."

Google this title (not a link) for full pdf report with pics
https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...Jabiru__G-CEED.

Another excerpt from the report

Carburettor mounting effect on cylinder head temperature

A UK CAA-Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, and owner of a Jabiru-engined aircraft, conducted tests with differing angles of mounting the carburettor to the plenum chamber, and at the same time monitoring cylinder head temperatures (CHT) and exhaust gas temperatures (EGT). He found that by tilting the carburettor 10 to 15 left and right he could obtain a rise and fall in CHTs between Nos 1 & 3 cylinders and Nos 2 & 4 of up to 50C and EGTs up to 120C."
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 08:21
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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so, its more than 12 months now, how are those 912IS's going? good it seams.. ECU and sensor issues sorted. all is good with the world again... amazing what a bit of customer service and feedback achieves...

now, the new 135Hp Rotax in a J230 airframe will be a top seller, indestructible well performing aircraft.. not to mention a decent service ceiling to boot with 100% power available up to 15,000 ft.
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 10:27
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Putting a rotax 915 in a jabiru J230 would be serious over capitalization.....
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 12:12
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect the installed-weight of any of the Rotax 912-family engines in a Jabiru airframe requires significant compromises in either fuel or crew-weights.

I've heard of Rotax installations in Jabiru airframes. I have actually met someone who claims to have flown one. I have seen a photograph of a J160 purporting to have Rotax 912 installed in it...but I have never actually seen one of these aeroplanes, nor have I seen any review of the performance (or possible lack of it), or the pros and cons of the installation, etc etc etc. Additionally, it is only an option (if it is viable) for home-builders.

Putting any Rotax engine into a Jabiru airframe isn't a simple task. Attractive? Yes. Simple? No.
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 12:59
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by criticalmass View Post
I suspect the installed-weight of any of the Rotax 912-family engines in a Jabiru airframe requires significant compromises in either fuel or crew-weights.

I've heard of Rotax installations in Jabiru airframes. I have actually met someone who claims to have flown one. I have seen a photograph of a J160 purporting to have Rotax 912 installed in it...but I have never actually seen one of these aeroplanes, nor have I seen any review of the performance (or possible lack of it), or the pros and cons of the installation, etc etc etc. Additionally, it is only an option (if it is viable) for home-builders.

Putting any Rotax engine into a Jabiru airframe isn't a simple task. Attractive? Yes. Simple? No.
I know of at least three and have been for a ride in one of them. All of the owners are super happy with the combination, one of them over the moon about it.
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 13:03
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Putting a rotax 915 in a jabiru J230 would be serious over capitalization.....
Well not really... A J230/430 is roughly an $80k airframe new from the factory and just guessing the engine will push $40k.

How many old C172's or Cherokees are over capitalised?
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 13:24
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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I doubt that the new rotax 915 will be $40k. The 914 is 28k US and the new 915 will be at least $5k more. add shipping, GST and convert to aussie and you will be north of 50k.

Add a prop to deal with the new power, the cost to install it all and you will endup with a very expensive aircraft. A 912s on the other hand makes some sense.
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