Jabiru Bad experience
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The 912 100 hp is only any good for 600kgs if that.
Just hangar talk I'm afraid. There's a 912 J230 in NsW and performance is reported to be underwhelming. Happy to put anyone in touch with them if required.
Just hangar talk I'm afraid. There's a 912 J230 in NsW and performance is reported to be underwhelming. Happy to put anyone in touch with them if required.
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Until recently IFA was only ok for a homebuilt RAA, but the regs have changed and IFA's are ok for LSA, just not reversible at this time. I know an LSA floatplane with IFA but they had to disable reverse as that's not covered under ATSM.
I priced up a 914 for a recent project. With a base price of ~$32-34k plus an IFA which is as good as mandatory for a turbo I was looking at around $40k plus custom engine mount plus rooting around fitting it.
I know it's not a turbo but a Jab3300 gets more 5-10 more horsepower for circa $17k with prop.
Fitting a new CAMIT 3300 to throw away at 800 you'd be looking at $20 an hour.
Running off a power by the hour concept, $20 is quite reasonable.
I priced up a 914 for a recent project. With a base price of ~$32-34k plus an IFA which is as good as mandatory for a turbo I was looking at around $40k plus custom engine mount plus rooting around fitting it.
I know it's not a turbo but a Jab3300 gets more 5-10 more horsepower for circa $17k with prop.
Fitting a new CAMIT 3300 to throw away at 800 you'd be looking at $20 an hour.
Running off a power by the hour concept, $20 is quite reasonable.
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Hey triple x again yr dreaming there buddy more HP, cheap operating costs pale into insgnificance when it all stops mid flight, that's when you wish you had paid a few dollars more for peace of mind
Safety costs when it comes to a man in a plane/coffin & you could even get the cost almost down to zero using just a rubber band for power but what happens when the turns run out? By the sounds of things the Jabarubberband can't keep yr world turning 4ever
Wmk2
Safety costs when it comes to a man in a plane/coffin & you could even get the cost almost down to zero using just a rubber band for power but what happens when the turns run out? By the sounds of things the Jabarubberband can't keep yr world turning 4ever
Wmk2
Join Date: May 2013
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just when I was about to buy 2 jabiru engines mick had his shed a conrod and seize in flight.
scratch two purchases.
I am told that Jabiru engines are now made in china.
the appearance of the jabiru lookalike is an effort by the australian company that used to do the contract machining to make something of the disaster that they experienced when the contract ceased.
personally I wish jabiru well. but they have to get engines regularly making TBO before they will really get successful.
disasters dont have a great future in aviation.
scratch two purchases.
I am told that Jabiru engines are now made in china.
the appearance of the jabiru lookalike is an effort by the australian company that used to do the contract machining to make something of the disaster that they experienced when the contract ceased.
personally I wish jabiru well. but they have to get engines regularly making TBO before they will really get successful.
disasters dont have a great future in aviation.
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They aren't made in China.... yet. Some Chinese made components are in testing at the moment. The sump which is a major part of the engine in terms of cost, is actually cast by our Trans-Tasman neighbours in New Zealand.
All currently Australian made in Bundaberg in a custom built multi-million dollar cad/design shop.
All currently Australian made in Bundaberg in a custom built multi-million dollar cad/design shop.
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made in Bundaberg in a custom built multi-million dollar cad/design shop.
multi million dollar facility eh.
well that makes it all perfectly ok then.
the end product is still unreliable crap.
multi million dollar facility eh.
well that makes it all perfectly ok then.
the end product is still unreliable crap.
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Yeah that's right Jack. I work in their airconditioned Melbourne based satellite office We do all of their test flying out of the Melbourne CBD.
Just sayin'
Your secret is out W8
multi million dollar facility eh.
W8 - just when I was about to buy 2 jabiru engines mick had his shed a conrod and seize in flight.
I looked at a Jabiru 3300 for the project, but after reading of the horrific reliability issues and the stupidity of their cylinder head design, not to mention the voodoo necessary to cool them evenly and then of course their known carburettor issues (swirl vanes and flow straighteners anyone?) I gave them a big miss.
The UL power uncertified engines grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over helicopter engines.
The South African Jabiru fuel injection project grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over carburetion.
The liquid cooled heads project grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over cylinder head cooling and sealing.
Frankly, I want nothing to do with a company that isn't prepared to engage with its customer base, admit its fault and actively work with its customers to improve its product.
I now have a 912 iS sitting in its box, and I know that engine was tested in real life in Africa with crap fuel and a less than perfect operating environment and according to the people Im in contact with, it passed with flying colours.
The UL power uncertified engines grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over helicopter engines.
The South African Jabiru fuel injection project grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over carburetion.
The liquid cooled heads project grew as a direct result of Jabirus head in the sand behaviour over cylinder head cooling and sealing.
Frankly, I want nothing to do with a company that isn't prepared to engage with its customer base, admit its fault and actively work with its customers to improve its product.
I now have a 912 iS sitting in its box, and I know that engine was tested in real life in Africa with crap fuel and a less than perfect operating environment and according to the people Im in contact with, it passed with flying colours.
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xxx you can wind away all you like.
one engine was for son's corby starlet and one was for an aeroengineer for a totally new design. design is now shelved until a reliable engine can be found.
one engine was for son's corby starlet and one was for an aeroengineer for a totally new design. design is now shelved until a reliable engine can be found.
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Just pushing ya buttons W8, I dind't really think you were building a Jabiru Twin.
Sorry for the drift and I'm sure I'll get accused of Rotax bashing, however that's actually quite amusing because Rotax are having significant problems with this engine at present. If you read Rotax's own publications they only produced a fuel injected version to please their customers who kept on telling them to get with the times and fit fuel injection. Experts have suggested that they released it to market too quickly.
There's one in Tassie that regularly flies to Vic or at least it used to until it spent months in a hangar at LTV whilst parts were continually shipped back and forth from Germany. Problems with the injection system. All the experts were at a loss to work out what went wrong and when it was "fixed" it burped and farted the second half of the trip to Tassie again. I have also heard numerous other reports of issues, but on the other hand have also heard a number of good stories.
I would be fairly confident that they will resolve them however if it's been sitting on your floor for a while Sunfish, you may want to talk to Floods about whether the early issues have been addressed.
Sunfish says - I now have a 912 iS sitting in its box
There's one in Tassie that regularly flies to Vic or at least it used to until it spent months in a hangar at LTV whilst parts were continually shipped back and forth from Germany. Problems with the injection system. All the experts were at a loss to work out what went wrong and when it was "fixed" it burped and farted the second half of the trip to Tassie again. I have also heard numerous other reports of issues, but on the other hand have also heard a number of good stories.
I would be fairly confident that they will resolve them however if it's been sitting on your floor for a while Sunfish, you may want to talk to Floods about whether the early issues have been addressed.
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yes, said before, 912 is exceptionally good engine, not sure variants can say the same yet
Some upset 912iS owners around the world
variable engine performance, poor starting. I too believe they will sort it out but like anything man made will take some time to get there.
Reckon Jabiru might have smaller R&D budget than Bombardier and they still have product development issues with a product they have included on other models for 10 yrs or more.
Some upset 912iS owners around the world
variable engine performance, poor starting. I too believe they will sort it out but like anything man made will take some time to get there.
Reckon Jabiru might have smaller R&D budget than Bombardier and they still have product development issues with a product they have included on other models for 10 yrs or more.
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I work in their airconditioned Melbourne based satellite office We do all of their test flying out of the Melbourne CBD.
There's one in Tassie that regularly flies to Vic or at least it used to until it spent months in a hangar at LTV whilst parts were continually shipped back and forth from Germany. Problems with the injection system. All the experts were at a loss to work out what went wrong and when it was "fixed" it burped and farted the second half of the trip to Tassie again. I have also heard numerous other reports of issues, but on the other hand have also heard a number of good stories.
I would be fairly confident that they will resolve them
I would be fairly confident that they will resolve them
and from what i have been reading, the issues with the 912Is most of the issues are computer and sensor related, the mechanicals of the engine are sound as always. its not going the throw a rod, snap a through bolt, drop a valve etc. a 912IS would make a great replacement for my 912ULS when its reaches TBO. would give me an 8 hour endurance!
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Jabiru engine
My 2011 J230SP LSA has 435 hours on it with no engine trouble. I almost always cruise at 2850-2900 rpm's.
The first thing my mechanic did when I bought the plane (new) was re-baffle the engine which resulted in an average reduction in CHT's of 65 degrees farenheit. The factory baffling is inferior which results in higher operating temperatures than are necessary.
If my choice was to correct the baffling and risk the factory's ire or live with the inferior factory baffling and replace the engine, I'd opt for the former.
And BTW, has anyone had the pleasure of an engine out in flight due to improper venting of the fuel tanks from the factory? I did, twice, and there's a simple fix to prevent it.
The first thing my mechanic did when I bought the plane (new) was re-baffle the engine which resulted in an average reduction in CHT's of 65 degrees farenheit. The factory baffling is inferior which results in higher operating temperatures than are necessary.
If my choice was to correct the baffling and risk the factory's ire or live with the inferior factory baffling and replace the engine, I'd opt for the former.
And BTW, has anyone had the pleasure of an engine out in flight due to improper venting of the fuel tanks from the factory? I did, twice, and there's a simple fix to prevent it.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Two UK engine failures
Engine 1 had 43 hours total since new
Engine 2 had 49 hours total since new
"Three cylinders and their associated pistons were taken to the Materials Department at QinetiQ (Farnborough) for detailed metallurgical examination. Examination of the three cylinders showed that No 3 piston and cylinder exhibited characteristics similar to the No 3 piston and cylinder from G-CEED. The piston/cylinder head interface exhibited sooting on one side of the cylinder, with the corresponding edge of the piston exhibiting burn-through (Figure 2). The internal surface of the cylinder showed evidence of minor wear and material pick-up from the piston at the point of the piston burn‑through. Skirt wear was observed on the piston similar to that observed in the examination of the engine from G-CEED. Minor wear was observed below the burn-through with the opposite skirt exhibiting more severe wear. The other two pistons both exhibited skirt wear similar to the No 3 piston. One of the pistons showed evidence of damage to the edge of the piston crown with reciprocating wear and material pick-up on the internal surface of the cylinder. The damage appeared to be purely mechanical, with no evidence of burn-through as seen in the No 3 piston.
Examination of the piston rings and oil scraper rings showed that the lower piston ring was seized in the closed position on one of the pistons and on another the upper ring was seized at the area of the damage, so that it was flush with the piston edge. The other end of the piston ring was free to move. On the No 3 piston both the lower piston ring and oil scraper ring were seized in the closed position."
Google this title (not a link) for full pdf report with pics
https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...Jabiru__G-CEED.
Another excerpt from the report
Carburettor mounting effect on cylinder head temperature
A UK CAA-Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, and owner of a Jabiru-engined aircraft, conducted tests with differing angles of mounting the carburettor to the plenum chamber, and at the same time monitoring cylinder head temperatures (CHT) and exhaust gas temperatures (EGT). He found that by tilting the carburettor 10° to 15° left and right he could obtain a rise and fall in CHTs between Nos 1 & 3 cylinders and Nos 2 & 4 of up to 50°C and EGTs up to 120°C."
Engine 1 had 43 hours total since new
Engine 2 had 49 hours total since new
"Three cylinders and their associated pistons were taken to the Materials Department at QinetiQ (Farnborough) for detailed metallurgical examination. Examination of the three cylinders showed that No 3 piston and cylinder exhibited characteristics similar to the No 3 piston and cylinder from G-CEED. The piston/cylinder head interface exhibited sooting on one side of the cylinder, with the corresponding edge of the piston exhibiting burn-through (Figure 2). The internal surface of the cylinder showed evidence of minor wear and material pick-up from the piston at the point of the piston burn‑through. Skirt wear was observed on the piston similar to that observed in the examination of the engine from G-CEED. Minor wear was observed below the burn-through with the opposite skirt exhibiting more severe wear. The other two pistons both exhibited skirt wear similar to the No 3 piston. One of the pistons showed evidence of damage to the edge of the piston crown with reciprocating wear and material pick-up on the internal surface of the cylinder. The damage appeared to be purely mechanical, with no evidence of burn-through as seen in the No 3 piston.
Examination of the piston rings and oil scraper rings showed that the lower piston ring was seized in the closed position on one of the pistons and on another the upper ring was seized at the area of the damage, so that it was flush with the piston edge. The other end of the piston ring was free to move. On the No 3 piston both the lower piston ring and oil scraper ring were seized in the closed position."
Google this title (not a link) for full pdf report with pics
https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...Jabiru__G-CEED.
Another excerpt from the report
Carburettor mounting effect on cylinder head temperature
A UK CAA-Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, and owner of a Jabiru-engined aircraft, conducted tests with differing angles of mounting the carburettor to the plenum chamber, and at the same time monitoring cylinder head temperatures (CHT) and exhaust gas temperatures (EGT). He found that by tilting the carburettor 10° to 15° left and right he could obtain a rise and fall in CHTs between Nos 1 & 3 cylinders and Nos 2 & 4 of up to 50°C and EGTs up to 120°C."