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The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots

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The Empire Strikes Back! on Colour Defective Pilots

Old 24th Nov 2014, 21:29
  #521 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
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Irrespective of the outcome (which, at least in the short term, is in the hands of the AAT), I note that my opinion, based on the content of CASA’s submissions, is that CASA is an organisation that has lost both its moral and intellectual compasses.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 07:36
  #522 (permalink)  
 
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was the 24th november meant to be final day of cvd hearing? if so how did it go and when is the result likely? or has it already come? would appreciate a response
Word is that the final day of hearings went as good as could be expected yesterday. Apparently (and predictably) Harvey continued to run the line that Australia is already well ahead of the rest of the world and that for the tribunal to set aside CAsA's decision would imply that the rest of the world has got it wrong. You bet the rest of the world has got it wrong! No other country in the world has a mechanism for pilots to appeal bureaucratic decisions like Australia does with the AAT. If it wasn't for the AAT and the landmark 28 day Denison test case, which to this day remains as the largest, independent examination of CVD in aviation, then Australia wouldn't be where it was today either.

Apparently CAsA have an overwhelming body of 'evidence' from 'experts'. What they actually have is an overwhelming body of opinions mostly from non-pilot optometrists who've never empirically assessed how CVD pilots perform in actual operational environments.

Hopefully the AAT will carefully look at the facts, the safety case and take comfort in knowing that the Denison case already examined the very same issues that CAsA now seek to conveniently disregard, just because it doesn't suit their objective to bring us into line with ICAO.

Apparently the result won't be known until early next year sometime.

Creampuff:
Irrespective of the outcome (which, at least in the short term, is in the hands of the AAT), I note that my opinion, based on the content of CASA’s submissions, is that CASA is an organisation that has lost both its moral and intellectual compasses.
It was good to see AOPA putting in their two cents worth today as well



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Old 19th Jan 2015, 10:19
  #523 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: melbourne
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any cvd update?

just wondering if there has been any update on a result of the cvd case or if there is an indication of when the result is likely due even the slightest update if possible would be appreciable
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Old 21st Jan 2015, 07:51
  #524 (permalink)  
 
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just wondering if there has been any update on a result of the cvd case or if there is an indication of when the result is likely due even the slightest update if possible would be appreciable
The result should be known by next month sometime apparently

Unfortunately, the AAT refused permission for the hearing transcripts to be published on CVDPA's website, so looks like we'll have to wait for the decision to be published instead.

There's also a nasty rumour going around that AvMed have now started refusing to issue Class 1's entirely to new pilots who fail the CVD testing, leaving them with no option except to appeal at the AAT.

One would've hoped that the resignation of the PMO and a new DAS may have led to a fresh and consultative approach, but it seems that optimism was a little too premature. Any guesses as to when the new PMO is going to be announced??

Lets hope that AOPA's recommendation of Dr Liddell or someone else of his calibre is given the chance to takeover the reigns and give AvMed a much needed cleanout before they have a chance to destroy anymore of this industry.

Dr Liddell published an article ('Medical Exodus') in the Dec/Jan edition of AOPA's Australian Pilot magazine. Last two paragraphs reproduced below.

'The micromanagement of every recreational pilot with type 2 diabetes has driven many of them out of the industry, increased the costs of regulation with extra staff and resources to pore over the submitted daily blood sugar results,(which have already been checked by the DAME), and achieved nothing for aviation safety.

Like the rest of the population who trust their doctors, CASA needs to trust its' medical examiners, and stop wasting funds on over-regulation of private pilots. If they diverted the savings into teaching pilots about airmanship and sound decision making, only then might there be a positive effect on aviation safety'
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Old 11th Feb 2015, 02:05
  #525 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: melbourne
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cvd case update?

from what i understand the result of the cvd case was meant to be found out by this month and so was wondering if so far there has been any update?
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Old 11th Feb 2015, 19:26
  #526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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type 2 diabetes

on a personal note, my consultant endocrinologist when he saw the CASA AVMED requirements for my diet only in control diabetes could not help but laugh.
This is perhaps more significant in numbers affected than the CVD problem.
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Old 11th Feb 2015, 21:50
  #527 (permalink)  
 
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aerospace11,

It shouldn't be too much longer. A result is expected this month sometime.
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Old 14th Feb 2015, 19:42
  #528 (permalink)  
 
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Scion, that's interesting, I've not come across Casa advising on diet
Do they set you out a weekly / monthly plan
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Old 15th Feb 2015, 00:10
  #529 (permalink)  
 
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To be fair it's more likely to be in response to type 2 diabetes.
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Old 15th Feb 2015, 18:48
  #530 (permalink)  
 
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Brissypilot,

no they do not set out a plan, they leave that to the endocrinologist otherwise they would have to submit it to their legal team and it would be incomprehensible.
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 22:45
  #531 (permalink)  
 
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I’d overlooked this relatively recent decision of the AAT in which CASA’s behaviour was described as “most inappropriate”: Hoore and Civil Aviation Safety Authority [2014] AATA 292 (13 May 2014)
As a final comment on the issue of jurisdiction of the Tribunal in situations where an applicants’ licence or certificate has expired, the Tribunal considers, notwithstanding the legality of their submission, that CASA’s timing in bringing to the attention of the applicant and the Tribunal notice of the certificate’s expiration was most inappropriate. In knowing the likely ramifications, CASA ought to have raised this issue well in advance so the applicant and the Tribunal could have responded accordingly and in a timely manner.
The Applicant in the matter was 75 years old and had been flying since 1977. CASA suspended the Applicant’s Class 1 and Class 2 medical certificates in May 2013, because the Applicant had been diagnosed with melanoma. The Applicant applied to the AAT for a review of that decision.

By the time the substance of the matter came to be dealt with by the AAT, the Applicant’s certificate had expired, but CASA hadn’t told the AAT. Instead, CASA stumped up and said, in effect: “Nyanie Nyanie Nyah Nyah: His certificate has expired so your review is legally pointless!”

Way to go, CASA. Way to treat a 75 year old citizen and the AAT. It’s just about the law. Your opinions about matters medical are, of course, objective truths that must be enforced with a crusader’s zeal. I feel so much safer.
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 03:53
  #532 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Estimates QoN responses

It was nice to see the responses to October's questions on notice were finally published yesterday, only 2 months past the due date

ATSB
Question No. 238

Senator FAWCETT: I am happy to put this on notice: in the period since last estimates, how many safety related incidents have there been that ATSB has investigated? As a subset of that, how many, if any, relate to a pilot who had a colour vision deficiency?
Mr Dolan: I am not aware, but I think we can safely say that we have not investigated anything that relates to an occurrence notified to us relating to a colour vision deficiency.
Senator FAWCETT: That does not surprise me, but if you could still come back to me with a number that would be great, thank you.
Mr Dolan: We will confirm that on notice

Answer:
• The ATSB has initiated 59 investigations of safety incidents and accidents since the last Senate Estimates.
• None of these 59 relate to a pilot who had a colour vision deficiency.
CASA:
Question No. 242

Senator FAWCETT: Mr Farquharson, can you tell me how many pilots who have a colour vision deficiency have lost privileges of their licence as a result of having to sit the CAD test, since the last estimates?
Mr Farquharson: I cannot directly inform you of that.
Senator FAWCETT: I am happy for you to take that on notice. Could you also find out how many initial applicants for an aircrew medical have been required to sit the CAD test as the third level of testing and have subsequently failed and been denied an aircrew medical?

Answer:
• Two candidates have fail results. The applicants have been notified of the intent to issue licences with the restriction “Day Visual Flight Rules (VFR) flying only”. One certificate has been issued with applicant agreement. One certificate is pending applicant response.
• No initial applicants for an aircrew medical have been required to sit the Colour Assessment and Diagnosis (CAD) test.
CAsA's new practice of issuing Day VFR medicals to those who fail the tests goes completely against the findings of the Denison AAT test case - and not to mention the legal requirements in CASR 67.150 (6)(c) that Creamie has eloquently highlighted in his past posts. These newbies are now being denied careers even in GA that many others before them have been able to enjoy over the past 25 years. What's the point of investing in a CPL now if AvMed won't even let you fly at night or IFR?

Hopefully it won't be too much longer now before the AAT publishes its latest decision. No doubt it'll be another interesting read!

For anyone who's interested, the next round of Estimates is happening late Tues night
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Old 20th Feb 2015, 05:23
  #533 (permalink)  
 
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That is absolutely disgusting. How dare they fly in the face of the Denison ruling? How can they get away with this? They have no authority to do that. If they don't reverse these decisions, heads, acting or not, must roll
And that's not all. I'm reliably informed that at least one person has been refused a class 1 medical entirely due to his CVD...
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Old 20th Feb 2015, 12:06
  #534 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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---- they seem to have gone from the most enlightened
Cleared to enter,

Said in jest, I trust!!

Just in case you were/are serious, CASA's predecessor expected to win Denison, and was most put out at the loss, but it took up until the arrival of the current management for CASA to have a team that was prepared to thumb their nose at Denison.

CASA is very mired in a "winners" and "losers" mindset, and any success by "the industry", a "win", is seen as a "loss" to CASA, and a score to be settled.

A "loss" is never accepted as CASA might have got it wrong.

As a former DAS said to the National Press Club, some years ago:"Judges get it wrong". That is the mindset, CASA is never wrong.

Tootle pi
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Old 21st Feb 2015, 02:33
  #535 (permalink)  
 
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C'mon Leaddie: Air 'safety' is always the winner.

"AIR SAFETY!" is emblazoned on the shield CASA Avmed carries in its crusade.

CASA's opinions are objective truths: why else would they have been given the weapons to enforce them on others?

Our regulatory saviours are merely earthly messengers for the Holy Annexes. (Blessed be our regulatory saviours.)

Any unbeliever or dissenter - or worse, any inconvenient data - casting doubt on the veracity of the Holy Annexes is obviously A DANGER TO AIR SAFETY! and to be ignored and dispatched with merciful beneficence by our regulatory saviours. (Blessed be our regulatory saviours.) Mere mortals who suffer the consequential stress, heartache, expense and disappointment are just a small but necessary price to pay for the greater good: AIR SAFETY!

Yea and verily, ATPLs with CVD are an ABOMINATION BEFORE THE HOLY ANNEXES and therefore, by definition, DANGEROUS!

The depth of CASA's beneficence is such that it can decide on differences from the Holy Annexes! When CASA decides on differences from the Holy Annexes, it is always on the basis of SAFETY and is never on the basis of politics, sectional interests or self-interest. Never.

The beneficent CASA Avmed is merely doing the right thing - just ask them - in the face of the Denison HERESY! Yea and verily, the operational record of pilots with CVD subsequent to the Denison decision is merely a temptation by the danger-devil: a trick! A trick to distract the weak from the obvious doom that will be met by unsuspecting innocents in a 30,000' death plunge. CASA Avmed must therefore resist setting tests that properly simulate real operational situations, because the danger-devil will ensure that candidates pass them. A woman who does not drown is evidently a witch; A CVD pilot who passes tests that properly simulate real operational situations is evidently dangerous. CASA Avmed knows this.

There endeth the lesson.
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Old 21st Feb 2015, 21:02
  #536 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New zealand
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Hi all, I am currently going through the Class 1 process (initial issue) for converting an NZ CPL to Aus. I have failed the first two stages of colour vision testing (Ishihara, Farnsworth etc) and CASA have sent me a letter stating I can either have a restricted Class 1 - Day VFR only, or undergo further testing at my expense, a "Colour Assessment and Diagnosis" test which is only available in Sydney. I'm not sure yet if I want to throw ~1500 or more for a day in Sydney. It is frustrating to think that if I had applied for a medical 12 months ago, it would have been issued without these restrictions.
As a side note - I have no problems with PAPI, but I do have some difficulty with tower lights.
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Old 21st Feb 2015, 21:50
  #537 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
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NZRV8,

Just wait another week or two mate before you spend the cash, if you failed the lantern test chances are you will fail the CAD. Once this result comes out you could then lodge an application to have the restrictions removed, provided it's a positive outcome of course.
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Old 21st Feb 2015, 21:52
  #538 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New zealand
Age: 35
Posts: 2
Wilco. It took CASA 3 months to get me to this stage, so another few weeks won't hurt
Papakurapilot - Do you fly out of Ardmore?
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Old 22nd Feb 2015, 01:27
  #539 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Creamie . .. . thank you for that eloquent sermon on the mouth

we heretics raised in the Anglican tradition find perverse pleasure satirising the
good book

HEBREWS 13.8

(Jesus Christ . . . the same . . . yesterday. . . .today .. ...and forever. )

Last edited by Fantome; 22nd Feb 2015 at 04:26.
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Old 22nd Feb 2015, 02:26
  #540 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
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NZRV8 check your Pms
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