Victa Airtourer Engine Mounting
Thread Starter
Victa Airtourer Engine Mounting
I'm looking for an engine mounting for an Airtourer 150 (Lycoming O-320).
Does anybody in the birthplace (or the subsequent nursery) of the mighty Airtourer have one lying around in their shed / hangar / front room?
Does anybody in the birthplace (or the subsequent nursery) of the mighty Airtourer have one lying around in their shed / hangar / front room?
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Talk to Bob at Edge Aviation in Sale Victoria. I guarantee that Bob will know where to get one. The Airtourer has a lot to do with West Sale aerodrome as the history buffs would tell you.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 11th Nov 2013 at 21:54.
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The Airtourer is one of the greatest planes ever made, right up there with the Concorde and F22.
Check out the Airtourer Association and Co-op:
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A quick tip, many Airtourer parts are Piper P/Ns
I recall being told that Airtourer engine mounts were Piper units.
Check out the Airtourer Association and Co-op:
Home
A quick tip, many Airtourer parts are Piper P/Ns
I recall being told that Airtourer engine mounts were Piper units.
Last edited by peterc005; 12th Nov 2013 at 01:45.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the tips gentlemen and I'll look into the avenues suggested.
I was wondering if Victa had used a bit of lateral thinking and used an engine mount that was already in production!
I agree that the Airtourer is a great aeroplane. My daughter loves the lightness and responsiveness. Like having wings on your shoulders she reckons!
Edited to add:
Re: Piper engine mounts, the Airtourer is stressed to +6 / -3g, do you think the Piper mounts would be stressed to cope with these loads? Maybe they would if the mounts are designed for a 180hp engine and only used for a 150hp engine (same mounting bolt pattern for the O-235, O-320, O-360 engines)
I was wondering if Victa had used a bit of lateral thinking and used an engine mount that was already in production!
I agree that the Airtourer is a great aeroplane. My daughter loves the lightness and responsiveness. Like having wings on your shoulders she reckons!
Edited to add:
Re: Piper engine mounts, the Airtourer is stressed to +6 / -3g, do you think the Piper mounts would be stressed to cope with these loads? Maybe they would if the mounts are designed for a 180hp engine and only used for a 150hp engine (same mounting bolt pattern for the O-235, O-320, O-360 engines)
Last edited by LowNSlow; 12th Nov 2013 at 11:25.
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The Airtourer is a fun and versatile plane, and does a couple of different roles well.
The Airtourer Co-op will be able to help with parts and documentation.
The only time they seem to fall out of the sky is when people mis-manage the fuel. Never rely on the fuel gauge and double check the fuel level dips.
The Airtourer Co-op will be able to help with parts and documentation.
The only time they seem to fall out of the sky is when people mis-manage the fuel. Never rely on the fuel gauge and double check the fuel level dips.
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WOW, up there with the Concorde & F22...?
Concorde being the first supersonic commercial aircraft to fly paying passengers...
F22, a jet able to sustain non-afterburning supersonic flight...
The Airtourer used a trim system inspired (possibly even the exact copy can't remember exactly) from the Victa Lawnmowers, you know... the system used to raise/lower your mower when mowing lawns
.
Let's keep it real eh?
AK
Concorde being the first supersonic commercial aircraft to fly paying passengers...
F22, a jet able to sustain non-afterburning supersonic flight...
The Airtourer used a trim system inspired (possibly even the exact copy can't remember exactly) from the Victa Lawnmowers, you know... the system used to raise/lower your mower when mowing lawns
.Let's keep it real eh?
AK
Thread Starter
The Airtourer Co-op has an engine mount available but it's expensive!!
Both of the airframes I intend to use in the rebuild suffered from "lack of fuel" and a subsequent nose leg collapse at low speed in a field!
How the fuel gauge could be made so inaccurate I have no idea. My old Auster with it's mechanical gauge consistently under read by 3 gallons on the ground and 2 gallons in the air! The Airtourer gauge reading only randomly bears any realationship with what the dipstick tells you! One thing I'm toying with as part of the rebuild is to replace the bag tank with a solid tank and a modern, accurate, fuel measuring system assuming the CAA will allow such heresy to be done to a certified airframe!
The trim system may be lifted from the lawnmower but the handling feels like it was lifted from wherever the DH Chipmunk handling came from! It handles much, much better than anything produced by Cessna or Piper since 1950. It's certainly far nicer than the Aerobat that I started off with way back when. It also nips along at 100-105 knots on 115hp. I'm looking forward to rebuilding a T5 150hp with VP prop so that a bit of grunt is combined with the fine handling.
It also has the very clever flaperon system that droops the ailerons to give more lift from the 26' span wings without losing roll authority yet still giving a great roll response. Look up Airtourer aerobatics on Youtube there are some neat little vids there.
Mr. Millicer certainly built a lot of fun into such a little aeroplane!!
Both of the airframes I intend to use in the rebuild suffered from "lack of fuel" and a subsequent nose leg collapse at low speed in a field!
How the fuel gauge could be made so inaccurate I have no idea. My old Auster with it's mechanical gauge consistently under read by 3 gallons on the ground and 2 gallons in the air! The Airtourer gauge reading only randomly bears any realationship with what the dipstick tells you! One thing I'm toying with as part of the rebuild is to replace the bag tank with a solid tank and a modern, accurate, fuel measuring system assuming the CAA will allow such heresy to be done to a certified airframe!
The trim system may be lifted from the lawnmower but the handling feels like it was lifted from wherever the DH Chipmunk handling came from! It handles much, much better than anything produced by Cessna or Piper since 1950. It's certainly far nicer than the Aerobat that I started off with way back when. It also nips along at 100-105 knots on 115hp. I'm looking forward to rebuilding a T5 150hp with VP prop so that a bit of grunt is combined with the fine handling.
It also has the very clever flaperon system that droops the ailerons to give more lift from the 26' span wings without losing roll authority yet still giving a great roll response. Look up Airtourer aerobatics on Youtube there are some neat little vids there.
Mr. Millicer certainly built a lot of fun into such a little aeroplane!!
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@aok47 - that's what made it such a great plane - ingenuity and innovative design.
Using the height adjuster from a Victa lawnmower as the Airtourer manual trim lever is hard to beat for an example of home-grown engineering.
The brake master cylinder is from an EH Holden and the front wheel leg is a Ford Prefect McPherson strut.
Later model Airtourers used a VHF/UHF antenna from an F111.
The design itself, certainly the wing, fuselage and tail were largely copied from other proven designs such as the Provost (eventually Strikemaster).
Ours is a much-loved member of the family. I haven't shown it much loving recently, but might visit the hangar tonight to give it a pat and a scratch under the chin.
Using the height adjuster from a Victa lawnmower as the Airtourer manual trim lever is hard to beat for an example of home-grown engineering.
The brake master cylinder is from an EH Holden and the front wheel leg is a Ford Prefect McPherson strut.
Later model Airtourers used a VHF/UHF antenna from an F111.
The design itself, certainly the wing, fuselage and tail were largely copied from other proven designs such as the Provost (eventually Strikemaster).
Ours is a much-loved member of the family. I haven't shown it much loving recently, but might visit the hangar tonight to give it a pat and a scratch under the chin.
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@LowNSlow - I am advised that the fuel gauge was from an MG.
Another issue if that the tank is relatively flat and shallow, making it harder to measure the fuel level accurately.
The best way to fly it is to fill the tank frequently and track the time flown.
I'm about to get Electronics International fuel level and pressure gauges fitted.
There are a few Airtourers around that have been wrecked and broken up for parts. If you fish around an engine mount should be available. Speak with the Airtourer co-op people.
Another issue if that the tank is relatively flat and shallow, making it harder to measure the fuel level accurately.
The best way to fly it is to fill the tank frequently and track the time flown.
I'm about to get Electronics International fuel level and pressure gauges fitted.
There are a few Airtourers around that have been wrecked and broken up for parts. If you fish around an engine mount should be available. Speak with the Airtourer co-op people.
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Replacing the bladder tank with a solid one is possible but not recommended. The ability of the bladder to deform without rupturing has saved a few people from becoming crispy critters in post impact fires.
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There's one at a Edge Aviation at West Sale with a lot more hp than standard, has a 3 bladder and goes really hard. Not sure how many horses it has. It was the first build of what was going to be the newly formed Millicer aviation if my memory serves me correctly but the venture never got off the ground so to speak.
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peterc005: Henry Millicer was actually one of the designers who worked on the Piston Provost so he didn't really copy it just scaled it down and re-used it!!!
I apeciate that it's difficult to measure the height of liquid in a shallow and wide tank but if the measurements were consistenly wrong you'd stand a chance! I completely ignore the gauge and just fill and dip to keep track of consumption. I'd be interested to see drawings / pictures of the EI fuel level installation to get a feel for if the Campaign Against Aviation and/or the Europeans Against Safe Aviation will allow me to retrofit this aid to safe flying
dartman2: I suppose you have to draw a balance between the safety of the bag tank in a crash and the ability of a hard tank with an accurate gauge to avoid the crash in the first place. There are loads of aeroplanes with fuselage mounted tanks after all.
aroa: I've got the question about Piper engine mountings out in the Airtourer community as we speak. If they are suitable I'll be in touch pronto.
I apeciate that it's difficult to measure the height of liquid in a shallow and wide tank but if the measurements were consistenly wrong you'd stand a chance! I completely ignore the gauge and just fill and dip to keep track of consumption. I'd be interested to see drawings / pictures of the EI fuel level installation to get a feel for if the Campaign Against Aviation and/or the Europeans Against Safe Aviation will allow me to retrofit this aid to safe flying
dartman2: I suppose you have to draw a balance between the safety of the bag tank in a crash and the ability of a hard tank with an accurate gauge to avoid the crash in the first place. There are loads of aeroplanes with fuselage mounted tanks after all.
aroa: I've got the question about Piper engine mountings out in the Airtourer community as we speak. If they are suitable I'll be in touch pronto.
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Hi LowNSlow, just remember those aircraft to which you refer with rigid fuselage tanks were designed that way. The Airtourer was not. Perterc005's comments regarding fuel management and record keeping are very sound advice. Something like an FS450 is also a good investment.
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The best way to fly it is to fill the tank frequently and track the time flown.
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You won't generally see a charter or RPT operator operating like that, it's usually start with reserves and add only what you need for the flight with margins etc. Carrying full fuel has side-effects on performance etc.
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@First_Principal - there is rumour of an AD for Airtourers to upgrade the fuel gauge. Mine only ever reads full or empty.
The Amp gauge also seems to have automotive origins.
The original Manifold Pressure gauge appeared to be military surplus from WW11. The P/N was the same used for a P51 Mustang. Someone had just opened the gauge and used a black texta to hide the settings past 30".
A further rumour is the the centre control yoke is copied from a Beaufighter.
Mine has the flat, solid dip stick which is simple to use.
Earlier Airtourers had lead fishing sinkers on a piece of fencing wire for checking the fuel level. A button had to be depressed to release the dip stick, which also caused the wire to drop further into the tank.
The inexperienced would hold the release button down while doing a dip, which caused dip stick to over read.
From what I can tell the engine/mount/prop are a Piper setup.
One thing the Airtourer has which seems unique is a "gasculator". It is mounted on the fire wall and is about the size of a 2L carton of milk. No one seems quite sure what it does, but possibly it helps the fuel feed while inverted.
The Amp gauge also seems to have automotive origins.
The original Manifold Pressure gauge appeared to be military surplus from WW11. The P/N was the same used for a P51 Mustang. Someone had just opened the gauge and used a black texta to hide the settings past 30".
A further rumour is the the centre control yoke is copied from a Beaufighter.
Mine has the flat, solid dip stick which is simple to use.
Earlier Airtourers had lead fishing sinkers on a piece of fencing wire for checking the fuel level. A button had to be depressed to release the dip stick, which also caused the wire to drop further into the tank.
The inexperienced would hold the release button down while doing a dip, which caused dip stick to over read.
From what I can tell the engine/mount/prop are a Piper setup.
One thing the Airtourer has which seems unique is a "gasculator". It is mounted on the fire wall and is about the size of a 2L carton of milk. No one seems quite sure what it does, but possibly it helps the fuel feed while inverted.