Witnessing a Fatal accident?
Thread Starter
Witnessing a Fatal accident?
Apologies, as this is a bit of a dark subject, but Id like to ask the experienced aviators here for some advice, as I am still relatively new to the world of aviation.
I wanted to get an idea from people who have experienced seeing a fatal aviation accident, as to what the after effects have been for them, and how long they tend to last.
I've been in the game about 10 years(not heaps of flying in the first seven), working commercially for about three and I've seen a number of close calls, and incidents, but recently witnessing a fatal accident has shaken me to the core. Just the overwhelming sense that you can't do a bloody thing to help, and images of the scene just constantly flashing through my mind.
I will be taking up the offers of seeing a specialist, and I have no shame in doing it, but aside from staying off the p1ss, trying to eat well and get some rest, is there anything else that can be done to manage the after effects?
Thanks in advance.
I wanted to get an idea from people who have experienced seeing a fatal aviation accident, as to what the after effects have been for them, and how long they tend to last.
I've been in the game about 10 years(not heaps of flying in the first seven), working commercially for about three and I've seen a number of close calls, and incidents, but recently witnessing a fatal accident has shaken me to the core. Just the overwhelming sense that you can't do a bloody thing to help, and images of the scene just constantly flashing through my mind.
I will be taking up the offers of seeing a specialist, and I have no shame in doing it, but aside from staying off the p1ss, trying to eat well and get some rest, is there anything else that can be done to manage the after effects?
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Homesick-Angel; 26th Oct 2013 at 02:22.
A fair while ago now for me .... I was pretty jumpy with post traumatic stress for about three months. I actually drank quite a lot but that was more the time and place and who I was with. After about three months I just sort of realised it was no longer effecting me as much. After about a year I reckon I was pretty much back to normal. I don't know if that helps at all but good luck with it anyway, not very nice.
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Been there :-/ Was only 14 when I was the sole witness to a motor glider crash. Of course that was traumatic in itself but the Coroners court was harder to take.
Being a 15 year old in the stand for over an hour getting quizzed by the judge wasn't fun . Neither was the ridicule from the gliding club members questioning my testimony. Basically I saw the nose drop and the aircraft entered a spin to the left before impacting the ground . I could hear gliding club members say things like "Never! He was an experienced pilot , he would never have done that".
For the rest of the day they gave everyone a grilling to see if a 70 year old pilot was hard drinking or took drugs the night before .
In the last half hour the autopsy said he had a massive heart attack . Which was the reason the aircraft did what it did . Then you could hear gliding club members talk how the stall/spin situation made sense. I never received an apology from any of those people.
Certainly was a lesson for a young kid.
Have had a friend not come back from a flight since and that is hard to take. Mixed emotions of expecting him to walking back through the door to questioning yourself or blaming god . Talking to friends helps but everyone deals with differently.
Being a 15 year old in the stand for over an hour getting quizzed by the judge wasn't fun . Neither was the ridicule from the gliding club members questioning my testimony. Basically I saw the nose drop and the aircraft entered a spin to the left before impacting the ground . I could hear gliding club members say things like "Never! He was an experienced pilot , he would never have done that".
For the rest of the day they gave everyone a grilling to see if a 70 year old pilot was hard drinking or took drugs the night before .
In the last half hour the autopsy said he had a massive heart attack . Which was the reason the aircraft did what it did . Then you could hear gliding club members talk how the stall/spin situation made sense. I never received an apology from any of those people.
Certainly was a lesson for a young kid.
Have had a friend not come back from a flight since and that is hard to take. Mixed emotions of expecting him to walking back through the door to questioning yourself or blaming god . Talking to friends helps but everyone deals with differently.
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These days fatal accidents are comparatively rare.It was not so in the past, I am second generation engineer and have witnessed several fatal accidents - its a hazard of the job and you have to accept it as such and have some kind of emotional 'switch off'.
I am sure that most of us who have spent some time in the aviation business close to the aircraft will have witnessed accidents and lost friends and colleagues - in order to do your job you cannot allow your emotions to affect you.
I am sure that most of us who have spent some time in the aviation business close to the aircraft will have witnessed accidents and lost friends and colleagues - in order to do your job you cannot allow your emotions to affect you.
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Emotional trauma can affect people in very different ways, so it's important to do what's right for you. 'Switching it off' may not necessarily be the healthiest way to cope.
Time helps
Time helps
I saw a fatal at the Wanaka airshow in the early 90s. Lasting effects? I don't know, it wasn't something I'd like to see again but it didn't seem to have any major effect. Possibly different if I'd had to attend the accident site.
I was at the Reno Air Races over a decade ago and a guy got caught in wake turbulence and went in right in front of us, it was so quick that we didn't have any long-term exposure to the tragedy unfolding.
I certainly thought about it afterwards, but as I said, it was so quick that it didn't "stick" as it would have if it had been a longer event.
Still tough though !!!
f
I certainly thought about it afterwards, but as I said, it was so quick that it didn't "stick" as it would have if it had been a longer event.
Still tough though !!!
f
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G'day ,
I have been in a similar situation that you have been about 5 years ago and it was a first hand experience for me .i was asked to take counseling but I chose not to. Now looking back into it I believe it is totally upto the individual as how one perceive these kind of accidents and what their age is when they have witnessed or been into one.
I am not even sure if I am at a position to advise because of the fact I don't have a medical qualification. However I would suggest to take the time out and be with your family or your loved ones or even take a holiday to south east Asia for a bit of a adventure or just get on the horse te next day and don't let it get to you
Hope this helps
Oz
I have been in a similar situation that you have been about 5 years ago and it was a first hand experience for me .i was asked to take counseling but I chose not to. Now looking back into it I believe it is totally upto the individual as how one perceive these kind of accidents and what their age is when they have witnessed or been into one.
I am not even sure if I am at a position to advise because of the fact I don't have a medical qualification. However I would suggest to take the time out and be with your family or your loved ones or even take a holiday to south east Asia for a bit of a adventure or just get on the horse te next day and don't let it get to you
Hope this helps
Oz
Trauma is never an easy thing to deal with, especially if it's the first time you've seen something like that.
Very early on in my aeromed career, we attended an accident which involved a girl in her late teens that'd been involved in a car accident. Despite the best efforts of all medical crews, she couldn't be saved, and died there on our stretcher. That was hard to deal with, but I think the hardest part was actually seeing her distraught father having to deal with her death, without any family there with him.
Took probably a good 6 months to deal with that, then another 6 before I no longer really think about it anymore, and trauma's since don't seem to bother me much (the constant exposure deals with that).
My advice would be to at least sit down with someone else who is either a professional in the counselling field, or perhaps even someone from the emergency crew who attended the accident you saw. Then at least they're on the same page when it comes to what you've seen. Sometimes talking to someone who also saw it, helps you unload a bit more about what went on.
Post traumatic stress though is a very real issue. Don't bottle it up inside of you.
Cheers
morno
Very early on in my aeromed career, we attended an accident which involved a girl in her late teens that'd been involved in a car accident. Despite the best efforts of all medical crews, she couldn't be saved, and died there on our stretcher. That was hard to deal with, but I think the hardest part was actually seeing her distraught father having to deal with her death, without any family there with him.
Took probably a good 6 months to deal with that, then another 6 before I no longer really think about it anymore, and trauma's since don't seem to bother me much (the constant exposure deals with that).
My advice would be to at least sit down with someone else who is either a professional in the counselling field, or perhaps even someone from the emergency crew who attended the accident you saw. Then at least they're on the same page when it comes to what you've seen. Sometimes talking to someone who also saw it, helps you unload a bit more about what went on.
Post traumatic stress though is a very real issue. Don't bottle it up inside of you.
Cheers
morno
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Lots of good, and interesting ideas thrown around, and I agree with the majority of them.Everyone will handle, or attempt to handle things differently. You're definitely on the right path with staying off the pi55, eating well and going plenty of sleep. Professional care is a great resource to use but understandably it's not for everyone, as has been stated, don't be shy. Even your local GP sometimes can give you some ideas on coping strategies, and Valium to help you get to sleep at night.
Witnessing an 'event' isn't something anyone can 'train' for but as has been mentioned exposure to crappy situations can make it easier, but it can also cause one to be desensitised somewhat too. I'm not suggesting to go out looking for things to experience. Like others, I too have refused professional help that was offered on several occasions, but I have also taken professional help.
My two bobs worth is to talk, talk, talk. To mates, to other people that were present, to the mrs/mr, parents, hairdresser however you can trust or feel as though that you are being listened too.
I've witnessed the biggest and toughest guys fall like a sack of crap for bottling it up, I also personally know others who have let it go and got in way to deep and become suicidal/homicidal, some even being successful at that. (Not meaning to scare anyone)
I'm far from qualified in any form on the subject of PTSD but like numerous others from this forum I have a military background with several deployments (ground combat role and medical) and currently employed as an ambo. I believe that I deal with life much better now in my current role, and it's because that i get the opportunity to talk about the event straight after it. We are busy at the time it's all taking place which also helps but within the next few hours most things are discussed ad nauseum but it's off my chest. Then the days and weeks following it's talked about further and further. For me this works. It doesn't get rid of it, but it helps.
All the best.
Witnessing an 'event' isn't something anyone can 'train' for but as has been mentioned exposure to crappy situations can make it easier, but it can also cause one to be desensitised somewhat too. I'm not suggesting to go out looking for things to experience. Like others, I too have refused professional help that was offered on several occasions, but I have also taken professional help.
My two bobs worth is to talk, talk, talk. To mates, to other people that were present, to the mrs/mr, parents, hairdresser however you can trust or feel as though that you are being listened too.
I've witnessed the biggest and toughest guys fall like a sack of crap for bottling it up, I also personally know others who have let it go and got in way to deep and become suicidal/homicidal, some even being successful at that. (Not meaning to scare anyone)
I'm far from qualified in any form on the subject of PTSD but like numerous others from this forum I have a military background with several deployments (ground combat role and medical) and currently employed as an ambo. I believe that I deal with life much better now in my current role, and it's because that i get the opportunity to talk about the event straight after it. We are busy at the time it's all taking place which also helps but within the next few hours most things are discussed ad nauseum but it's off my chest. Then the days and weeks following it's talked about further and further. For me this works. It doesn't get rid of it, but it helps.
All the best.
Last edited by poohead; 26th Oct 2013 at 09:49.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I am a participant with this organisation "Stiftung Mayday".
They do have GA peers as well for this reason.
Stiftung Mayday - English version
They do have GA peers as well for this reason.
Stiftung Mayday - English version
I just don't get this thread?
I will be taking up the offers of seeing a specialist
Why would you go onto a public internet forum like this and reveal something so personal?
Are you seeking a pat on the back or sympathy?
You shouldn't be putting yourself out there until you have received professional counselling!
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I disagree Capt Fathom, Maybe it was enough to vent or pour his/her feelings out here and he might save him/herself some $$$ seeing a pro.
There is entire websites/forums dedicated to spilling your guts. Some are aimed at humour, others are serious mental health websites. Homesick-angel may have felt more comfortable venting here than elsewhere.
Hopefully there's others the thread may help too.......I for one am going to use the SE Asia holiday idea, thanks ozavatar
There is entire websites/forums dedicated to spilling your guts. Some are aimed at humour, others are serious mental health websites. Homesick-angel may have felt more comfortable venting here than elsewhere.
Hopefully there's others the thread may help too.......I for one am going to use the SE Asia holiday idea, thanks ozavatar
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Why on Earth is it so taboo and personal to admit you're going to get professional counseling in response to a traumatic event? Would you react the same way if someone said they were going to see a dentist about a toothache, or a doctor about an illness?
Perhaps if we were all more open and supportive about emotional problems and mental illnesses, everyone would be far better off.
Perhaps if we were all more open and supportive about emotional problems and mental illnesses, everyone would be far better off.
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Hi,
I hope that the professional help will ease some of the burden. I witnessed a C172 crash in Sydney a few years ago, albeit from a km or so distance (at the airfield). It was very challenging especially because, despite the evidence of my own eyes and ears, I had a hard time convincing anyone that the aircraft was in serious trouble. Eventually - maybe only minutes, in retrospect - one of the locals (not knowing me from bar of soap) could see the depth of my concerns and organized a search circuit which, after a bit of looking, found the aircraft about the same time as the other ground reports started coming through.
I didn't make it to the crash scene, since at the time I was recovering from leg surgery. One of the police later told me to be grateful for that impediment although I took a small amount of comfort from the fact that the 4 occupants apparently died instantly. What bothered me immensely in the subsequent weeks was the difficulty I had in raising the initial alarm but one of the ATSB guys later told me that it's a very common thing with humans to start with the denial response.
I had no specific psychological symptoms, perhaps because I didn't see the aftermath, but people tell me I was grumpy for about 6 months, maybe (I think) wondering about how the world just goes on in the face of such a tragedy. Strangely, I didn't relate what I saw on the day to my own flying, since I was able to tell myself, with some justification I think, that I would never have gotten myself into situation of that other pilot. In the end, it was the joy of flying that helped me get back to a more normal perspective over time.
Occasionally, I do still see in my mind the 172 wing drop, the powered dive, and recall the terrible 'whump' sound. I remember that it all seemed to happen in the interval between two heartbeats. It's also a great continuing comfort to me that the occupants did not suffer. As a practical outcome, I am much less tolerant of people who don't want to hear bad news - in all aspects of my life, but especially aviation.
Once again, good luck.
I hope that the professional help will ease some of the burden. I witnessed a C172 crash in Sydney a few years ago, albeit from a km or so distance (at the airfield). It was very challenging especially because, despite the evidence of my own eyes and ears, I had a hard time convincing anyone that the aircraft was in serious trouble. Eventually - maybe only minutes, in retrospect - one of the locals (not knowing me from bar of soap) could see the depth of my concerns and organized a search circuit which, after a bit of looking, found the aircraft about the same time as the other ground reports started coming through.
I didn't make it to the crash scene, since at the time I was recovering from leg surgery. One of the police later told me to be grateful for that impediment although I took a small amount of comfort from the fact that the 4 occupants apparently died instantly. What bothered me immensely in the subsequent weeks was the difficulty I had in raising the initial alarm but one of the ATSB guys later told me that it's a very common thing with humans to start with the denial response.
I had no specific psychological symptoms, perhaps because I didn't see the aftermath, but people tell me I was grumpy for about 6 months, maybe (I think) wondering about how the world just goes on in the face of such a tragedy. Strangely, I didn't relate what I saw on the day to my own flying, since I was able to tell myself, with some justification I think, that I would never have gotten myself into situation of that other pilot. In the end, it was the joy of flying that helped me get back to a more normal perspective over time.
Occasionally, I do still see in my mind the 172 wing drop, the powered dive, and recall the terrible 'whump' sound. I remember that it all seemed to happen in the interval between two heartbeats. It's also a great continuing comfort to me that the occupants did not suffer. As a practical outcome, I am much less tolerant of people who don't want to hear bad news - in all aspects of my life, but especially aviation.
Once again, good luck.
Thread Starter
Fathom
The only thing I was after from this thread was information, and to share with and hear from people in the same industry, who may have experienced a similar situation.
You don't need to get it. You can just move onto the next thread. Thats the beauty of the web.
I wouldn't go to a knitting website to ask questions of this nature, just as I don't go to Bunnings for Milk.
I don't feel like Ive exposed anything out of the ordinary or said anything overly personal, and Ive held information back for privacy and to be respectful of others.
There would be at least 50 people, many who have absolutely nothing to do with aviation, who saw what I saw, and would feel the same way. Its human nature to empathise and to care when life is lost, particularly when it is in such dramatic circumstances. It is western nature to bottle the emotions that follow trauma and turn that sh1t into cancer instead of just going for the ride - good, bad or otherwise.
Thanks for the replies and PMs. Much appreciated.
The only thing I was after from this thread was information, and to share with and hear from people in the same industry, who may have experienced a similar situation.
You don't need to get it. You can just move onto the next thread. Thats the beauty of the web.
I wouldn't go to a knitting website to ask questions of this nature, just as I don't go to Bunnings for Milk.
I don't feel like Ive exposed anything out of the ordinary or said anything overly personal, and Ive held information back for privacy and to be respectful of others.
There would be at least 50 people, many who have absolutely nothing to do with aviation, who saw what I saw, and would feel the same way. Its human nature to empathise and to care when life is lost, particularly when it is in such dramatic circumstances. It is western nature to bottle the emotions that follow trauma and turn that sh1t into cancer instead of just going for the ride - good, bad or otherwise.
Thanks for the replies and PMs. Much appreciated.
Last edited by Homesick-Angel; 26th Oct 2013 at 13:34.
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I feel for you, Angel
I witnessed an aerobatic manouver go horribly wrong. Afterwards, I kept playing over and over in my mind the moment when I realised he wasn't going to pull up, and then that awful sound.
It's been many years now, and I don't think of it that often, though I knew and miss the pilot. All I can tell you is that it never goes away, but it does get easier to bear.
I witnessed an aerobatic manouver go horribly wrong. Afterwards, I kept playing over and over in my mind the moment when I realised he wasn't going to pull up, and then that awful sound.
It's been many years now, and I don't think of it that often, though I knew and miss the pilot. All I can tell you is that it never goes away, but it does get easier to bear.
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A few years ago, I was sat in the Flying Club drinking a cup of tea and talking to a few other Pilots. After about 15 - 20 mins, two gents left to go and get their aircraft ready and I went to find my instructor as I had a lesson booked.
Whilst I was doing my external checks, they took off and about 10 minutes later I heard the crash alarm go off, shortly followed by an aircraft flying over with one of it's main gear missing and some flames underneath - It had clearly been involved in a mid-air collision.
I got in the aircraft and heard over the radio that the Pilot had collided with the aircraft with the two gents on board, that I had been speaking to only 30 minutes earlier... They lost all control of the aircraft and it crashed in a farmers field - they didn't stand a chance.
My flying lesson turned in to a Search & Rescue flight to help the Emergency Services locate the wreckage.
Not pleasant and not something i'll forget - I was 16/17 at the time.
Whilst I was doing my external checks, they took off and about 10 minutes later I heard the crash alarm go off, shortly followed by an aircraft flying over with one of it's main gear missing and some flames underneath - It had clearly been involved in a mid-air collision.
I got in the aircraft and heard over the radio that the Pilot had collided with the aircraft with the two gents on board, that I had been speaking to only 30 minutes earlier... They lost all control of the aircraft and it crashed in a farmers field - they didn't stand a chance.
My flying lesson turned in to a Search & Rescue flight to help the Emergency Services locate the wreckage.
Not pleasant and not something i'll forget - I was 16/17 at the time.
Last edited by Scott C; 26th Oct 2013 at 15:41.
