ASIC what measurable safety benefit?
Join Date: Feb 2009
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write to your MP and the transport minister and express your thoughts on the matter.
Cutting the cost of bureaucracy and no measurable safety benefit may be dot points without offending opposites.
In the time I have had an ASIC I have never been able to work out how the security is improved by having it.
Have we had a terrorist attack since the introduction of ASICs?
I rest my case!
Dr
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All this happens three days after sending off my renewal !
Regarding the cost of management Dick... Do you think that we can assume that it is self suficient given that a contracted mob in Merimbula do most and RAA-Aus do some also (at a lesser price by the way)?
But given other examples of mis-management, perhaps CASA are topping up the program but it will be difficult to find out that figure.
I would suggest there was a huge implementation cost that will never be recovered also.
An FOI request perhaps?
Regarding the cost of management Dick... Do you think that we can assume that it is self suficient given that a contracted mob in Merimbula do most and RAA-Aus do some also (at a lesser price by the way)?
But given other examples of mis-management, perhaps CASA are topping up the program but it will be difficult to find out that figure.
I would suggest there was a huge implementation cost that will never be recovered also.
An FOI request perhaps?
Last edited by VH-XXX; 15th Oct 2013 at 09:35.
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Julia Gillard was the politician who beat the government of the day into creating this asic bull****. I think listening to her rabbit on in parliament about pilots and the threat they posed started my deep and abiding hatred of the woman.
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It's a crock. Go take a wander around almost any major Australian airports GA area. You will see all and sundry coming and going, wandering airside, no ASICs or VIC's and often with no 'ASIC holder' in close proximity. Then you have dodgy fences easily breached, fences with crap stacked up against them or trees growing through them.
My point. The system simply isn't secure, yet talk to the airport operators and they will tell you that the clowns from the OTS want you to show them how you have risk assessed threats from bio terrorism and MANPADS (don't laugh), at Townsville or Broome airport!!! Yeah right, as if
My point. The system simply isn't secure, yet talk to the airport operators and they will tell you that the clowns from the OTS want you to show them how you have risk assessed threats from bio terrorism and MANPADS (don't laugh), at Townsville or Broome airport!!! Yeah right, as if
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There you have it Dick, truly a passionate response from your fellow aviators.
Give a pollie a point to score in the removal of this disease and it will happen.
The reason we have these and the rest of the bureaucratic crap imposed on aviation is because we accept it without so much as a pip.
Maybe an optional response is for everyone to hand their ASIC in?
Isn't the ASIC requirement just an expression/consequence of involuntary servitude?
Give a pollie a point to score in the removal of this disease and it will happen.
The reason we have these and the rest of the bureaucratic crap imposed on aviation is because we accept it without so much as a pip.
Maybe an optional response is for everyone to hand their ASIC in?
Isn't the ASIC requirement just an expression/consequence of involuntary servitude?
Twice I certified my own ASIC and used 10 year old photos.
I got younger each time.
Never questioned by the issuer. As long as you don't reuse the same photo it seems your ok.
I did it as a joke and I was very surprised when it passed.
Security my arse!
I got younger each time.
Never questioned by the issuer. As long as you don't reuse the same photo it seems your ok.
I did it as a joke and I was very surprised when it passed.
Security my arse!
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While I share everyone's pain re asic renewals the fact is its in the regs and not going anywhere.
Also regardless of what you fly ra Aus ga ect you must have a current asic to exercise the privileges of your pilots license
So if you fly without one your operating illegally
Also regardless of what you fly ra Aus ga ect you must have a current asic to exercise the privileges of your pilots license
So if you fly without one your operating illegally
ASIC was a solution looking for a problem. Or rather a government bureaucracy looking for a role.
This year marks my 40th anniversary flying. In 40 years the number of incidents of aircraft theft / sabotage that I can recall can be counted on the fingers of one hand. There was never a justification in historical fact.
At the time, I read the risk analysis paper prepared by the Australian public service that was used to justify the introduction of ASIC's. And I read the equivalent US document. The Australian paper was about 2 pages and concluded we needed fences & ASIC cards. The US document went through each sector of GA individually and concluded that aside from screening student pilots so that terrorists can get training to conduct a 9/11 event and putting in some controls on agricultural spraying so it can't be used to spread biological agents, that there was little risk in GA and it didn't justify the cost & burden of additional measures.
An argument could be mounted for ASIC's if it was an integrated system that meant something. But try and use your ASIC as proof of identity anywhere outside of an airport.
Furthermore, the airport fences that we have paid millions of dollars for are a farce. Most (if not virtually all) can be circumvented by undoing bolts with pliers and a shifter; or getting the gate code which have become easily available; or just walking further down the fence where it turns back into 3 strand wire.
ASIC is an impediment to legitimately getting around and it raises costs. But there is not a shred of evidence that suggests that it is either required or delivered any positive results.
Recently I met a refueller at a significant regional airport that services a significant level of RPT whose ASIC had been out of date for a number of years. He continued to wear it without question. Exactly who are we kidding?
How many ASIC cards are on issue? Qantas has 33,000 employees. CASA say there are 60,000 pilots licences of various grades. Its not hard to imagine that there are 100,000 cards on issue x $200 each. That's a $20m impost on industry for no demonstrable benefit.
This year marks my 40th anniversary flying. In 40 years the number of incidents of aircraft theft / sabotage that I can recall can be counted on the fingers of one hand. There was never a justification in historical fact.
At the time, I read the risk analysis paper prepared by the Australian public service that was used to justify the introduction of ASIC's. And I read the equivalent US document. The Australian paper was about 2 pages and concluded we needed fences & ASIC cards. The US document went through each sector of GA individually and concluded that aside from screening student pilots so that terrorists can get training to conduct a 9/11 event and putting in some controls on agricultural spraying so it can't be used to spread biological agents, that there was little risk in GA and it didn't justify the cost & burden of additional measures.
An argument could be mounted for ASIC's if it was an integrated system that meant something. But try and use your ASIC as proof of identity anywhere outside of an airport.
Furthermore, the airport fences that we have paid millions of dollars for are a farce. Most (if not virtually all) can be circumvented by undoing bolts with pliers and a shifter; or getting the gate code which have become easily available; or just walking further down the fence where it turns back into 3 strand wire.
ASIC is an impediment to legitimately getting around and it raises costs. But there is not a shred of evidence that suggests that it is either required or delivered any positive results.
Recently I met a refueller at a significant regional airport that services a significant level of RPT whose ASIC had been out of date for a number of years. He continued to wear it without question. Exactly who are we kidding?
How many ASIC cards are on issue? Qantas has 33,000 employees. CASA say there are 60,000 pilots licences of various grades. Its not hard to imagine that there are 100,000 cards on issue x $200 each. That's a $20m impost on industry for no demonstrable benefit.
September 11
You all seem to be ignoring the fact that September 11 has re-occurred exactly 12 times since 2001.
I want to know what the government is doing about THAT.
I want to know what the government is doing about THAT.
I have used the same photo previously but this time got pinged for it.
So yep, of for new photos and another JP got hassled. For what benefit? I told them I have the same shirt and glasses...........
So yep, of for new photos and another JP got hassled. For what benefit? I told them I have the same shirt and glasses...........
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1985 blast from the past! YBBN and the mad Yugoslav
Oh dear, have we all forgotten 1985 and the mad Yugoslav at the old Brisvegas airport? Hell, this incident would be well remembered by the Townsville and Brisbane refuellers! A refuellers worst nightmare of somebody pinching his shiny tanker and holding the world to ransom! How dare he do that? The madman could have found the supply of Vodka minis and Hustlers behind the cabin seat!
Besides only fuel companies retain that privilege of holding others to ransom
The loony commandeered a tanker and a whirlybird that day (jeez, that could have been your chopper Dick?). I was on shift that day and recall taking up a prime viewing spot from one of the freight sheds, later taking a spot upstairs in the nice dark cosy bar and scoffing a few ales with some of the boys before being booted out of the terminal by the sheriffs!
Good times, great days Would an ASIC have prevented the shenanigans that day? Doubt it.
Besides only fuel companies retain that privilege of holding others to ransom
The loony commandeered a tanker and a whirlybird that day (jeez, that could have been your chopper Dick?). I was on shift that day and recall taking up a prime viewing spot from one of the freight sheds, later taking a spot upstairs in the nice dark cosy bar and scoffing a few ales with some of the boys before being booted out of the terminal by the sheriffs!
Good times, great days
Would an ASIC have prevented the shenanigans that day? Doubt it.
Last edited by Cactusjack; 16th Oct 2013 at 02:08.
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I wonder now that Skippy made it all the way to the Melb drome pharmacy without any formal ID ( I know none is needed but where are the security goons anyway?) whether the ASIC will extend to all species on this planet (Pollies not on the list of course) And where is Mat Hammond? (4 those old ennuf to know whom I'm talking about here)
Poor Skip having to endure that madhouse just to get some medication after being hit by a car somewhere around the drome, what's this world coming to?
Wmk2
Poor Skip having to endure that madhouse just to get some medication after being hit by a car somewhere around the drome, what's this world coming to?
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 16th Oct 2013 at 02:15.
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Don't forget this monumental security failure in 2007 The Chaser enters APEC Security Zone
ASIC is even less effective than these clowns.
ASIC is even less effective than these clowns.
Last edited by Volumex; 16th Oct 2013 at 02:37.
An ASIC is not a means nor guarantee of entry. It is only an indication to another that you have passed certain government mandated background checks. You still require legitimate reasons to be where you want to be. Many people think that just because they have an ASIC they can go wherever they want on an airport but that is simply not so. The government for it's own bureaucratic reasons (and I certainly don't agree with the whole ASIC rigmarole) has made the requirements for holding an ASIC to be just one part of access to certain areas.
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Fizzy one.
Also regardless of what you fly ra Aus ga ect you must have a current asic to exercise the privileges of your pilots license
So if you fly without one your operating illegally
So if you fly without one your operating illegally
Who told you that?
