I wonder how many other people have cheated?
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I wonder how many other people have cheated?
story from Courier Mail
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...2-122673924366
Civil Aviation and Safety Authority reveal commercial pilots have been using cheat sheets in Air Transport Pilot Licence exams
KAY DIBBEN THE COURIER-MAIL OCTOBER 14, 2013 12:00AM
COMMERCIAL pilots have been caught cheating on essential safety exams because the regulator has not changed the tests for 20 years.
Pilots have been emailing and printing out the answers to the exams and secretly pasting them into textbooks allowed into the mandatory tests.
The rort came to light in the prosecution of a Queensland-based pilot who was banned from flying after the Civil Aviation and Safety Authority (CASA) found he had emailed the answers to another pilot.
The ban was overturned on appeal but the allegations made by prosecutors raise fears of widespread cheating because the watchdog failed to regularly change the exam questions, making it easy for pilots to take "coded" answers into open book exams.
Crash pilot had suffered epileptic fit
Last year a whistleblower tipped off CASA, revealing four cheat sheet pages with answers to 33 questions hidden inside a Boeing 727 handbook allowed into exam rooms.
The whistleblower claimed it was "common knowledge'' that candidates for the highest grade pilot's licence examination, Air Transport Pilot Licence, used cheat sheets.
AAT Deputy President Philip Hack SC said the description seemed "entirely accurate''.
"The conclusion is inescapable that the four pages were designed to be taken into an examination room and to provide an improper advantage to any candidate using them,'' Mr Hack said.
"Any such use was plainly gross and flagrant cheating.''
However, on Thursday Mr Hack cleared Queensland commercial pilot Kyle Marsh of cheating, overturning CASA's decision to suspend his licences for six months.
Last year CASA was given information suggesting Mr Marsh may have cheated in the October 2011 ATPL flight planning exam, the Administrative Appeal tribunal heard.
Mr Marsh strongly denied cheating in his exam, but admitted that in July last year he emailed the four pages of coded answers to some of the questions to another person.
The man who was sent the coded answers had passed the exam the year before.
The tribunal heard that at least by 2011 numerous documents with answers to many of the exam questions were circulating widely among students.
Mr Hack said "someone'' had incorporated four pages of coded answers into pages from the Boeing 727 handbook allowed in exam rooms. A CASA investigator found Mr Marsh's exam answers were consistent with the "compromised'' answers in the cheat sheet.
Mr Hack said he was satisfied Mr Marsh, a man with a "passion for aviation'', who understood the need for integrity in dealing with CASA, did not cheat.
He also found that no one could have received an unfair advantage in the exam, because Mr Marsh did not email the four pages until July last year.
Mr Hack set aside CASA's decisions and licence suspensions.
A spokesman for CASA said it was considering its position.
"CASA will consider appealing to the Federal Court," he said. "Once CASA became aware, it changed the test."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...2-122673924366
Civil Aviation and Safety Authority reveal commercial pilots have been using cheat sheets in Air Transport Pilot Licence exams
KAY DIBBEN THE COURIER-MAIL OCTOBER 14, 2013 12:00AM
COMMERCIAL pilots have been caught cheating on essential safety exams because the regulator has not changed the tests for 20 years.
Pilots have been emailing and printing out the answers to the exams and secretly pasting them into textbooks allowed into the mandatory tests.
The rort came to light in the prosecution of a Queensland-based pilot who was banned from flying after the Civil Aviation and Safety Authority (CASA) found he had emailed the answers to another pilot.
The ban was overturned on appeal but the allegations made by prosecutors raise fears of widespread cheating because the watchdog failed to regularly change the exam questions, making it easy for pilots to take "coded" answers into open book exams.
Crash pilot had suffered epileptic fit
Last year a whistleblower tipped off CASA, revealing four cheat sheet pages with answers to 33 questions hidden inside a Boeing 727 handbook allowed into exam rooms.
The whistleblower claimed it was "common knowledge'' that candidates for the highest grade pilot's licence examination, Air Transport Pilot Licence, used cheat sheets.
AAT Deputy President Philip Hack SC said the description seemed "entirely accurate''.
"The conclusion is inescapable that the four pages were designed to be taken into an examination room and to provide an improper advantage to any candidate using them,'' Mr Hack said.
"Any such use was plainly gross and flagrant cheating.''
However, on Thursday Mr Hack cleared Queensland commercial pilot Kyle Marsh of cheating, overturning CASA's decision to suspend his licences for six months.
Last year CASA was given information suggesting Mr Marsh may have cheated in the October 2011 ATPL flight planning exam, the Administrative Appeal tribunal heard.
Mr Marsh strongly denied cheating in his exam, but admitted that in July last year he emailed the four pages of coded answers to some of the questions to another person.
The man who was sent the coded answers had passed the exam the year before.
The tribunal heard that at least by 2011 numerous documents with answers to many of the exam questions were circulating widely among students.
Mr Hack said "someone'' had incorporated four pages of coded answers into pages from the Boeing 727 handbook allowed in exam rooms. A CASA investigator found Mr Marsh's exam answers were consistent with the "compromised'' answers in the cheat sheet.
Mr Hack said he was satisfied Mr Marsh, a man with a "passion for aviation'', who understood the need for integrity in dealing with CASA, did not cheat.
He also found that no one could have received an unfair advantage in the exam, because Mr Marsh did not email the four pages until July last year.
Mr Hack set aside CASA's decisions and licence suspensions.
A spokesman for CASA said it was considering its position.
"CASA will consider appealing to the Federal Court," he said. "Once CASA became aware, it changed the test."
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It goes on at all levels. High School, University, PPL, CPL, ATPL, other industries, IT certifications etc.
Where it doesn't happen is where the exam provider is diligent in creating new content, simulations and by using cheat detection algorithms. My university had a complex system used to detect cheating in all student submissions. It came back with a result next to your grade that had the names of the others that you cheated with along with a percentage figure on the probability that you co-ersed with that student.
IT exam providers such as Microsoft and Cisco use simulations where you need to configure the product live versus answering a multiple choice.
In the aviation world, it's left up to the employers really if CASA won't pull their finger out and get with the real world and create better materials.
A simulator will quickly sort out the pretenders from the real thing.
Where it doesn't happen is where the exam provider is diligent in creating new content, simulations and by using cheat detection algorithms. My university had a complex system used to detect cheating in all student submissions. It came back with a result next to your grade that had the names of the others that you cheated with along with a percentage figure on the probability that you co-ersed with that student.
IT exam providers such as Microsoft and Cisco use simulations where you need to configure the product live versus answering a multiple choice.
In the aviation world, it's left up to the employers really if CASA won't pull their finger out and get with the real world and create better materials.
A simulator will quickly sort out the pretenders from the real thing.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 14th Oct 2013 at 02:18.
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in my work environment the engineers sitting an accreditation exam were found to be compiling answers.
simple solution. I wrote enough new questions to triple the answer pool selected from to set the exam.
the fault here is CASA's. the guys are just succumbing to human behaviour.
simple solution. I wrote enough new questions to triple the answer pool selected from to set the exam.
the fault here is CASA's. the guys are just succumbing to human behaviour.
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Having been involved in theory training decades ago, I shake my head as, at the end of the day, it's probably less effort to do the hard yards, pass the thing on one's own merits, than to run the stress and wasted time of being underhand.
More to the point, the real aim is not so much to pass the exam .. that's just a nuisance sideline matter .. as to end up with some potentially useful knowledge tucked away in the brain archives.
A simulator will quickly sort out the pretenders from the real thing.
The kids who don't have any substantial background (ie slept through lectures and fudged the exam) get found out pretty quickly when they can't match the pace required in training ..
As an old airline ground school colleague observed over a beer .. "At XXX, we aren't too worried about the pilot exams and I'll keep walking past suggesting that Bloggs revisit Question Y again .. until he passes. Our job is to get them exposed to the stuff ... if they then aren't up to the grade, the sim endorsement finds them out and is the end of it for them".
Mind you, there is an old tale about Dusty (God's right hand man) who, on the DC9 ground school (as I recall the tale) was given a "special" Dusty exam paper. After everyone else had finished and gone to the pub, Dusty was still tearing his hair out trying to figure the paper ... eventually the boys let on .. I didn't hear the exact response but I have no doubt that it may have been a tad blistering ...
More to the point, the real aim is not so much to pass the exam .. that's just a nuisance sideline matter .. as to end up with some potentially useful knowledge tucked away in the brain archives.
A simulator will quickly sort out the pretenders from the real thing.
The kids who don't have any substantial background (ie slept through lectures and fudged the exam) get found out pretty quickly when they can't match the pace required in training ..
As an old airline ground school colleague observed over a beer .. "At XXX, we aren't too worried about the pilot exams and I'll keep walking past suggesting that Bloggs revisit Question Y again .. until he passes. Our job is to get them exposed to the stuff ... if they then aren't up to the grade, the sim endorsement finds them out and is the end of it for them".
Mind you, there is an old tale about Dusty (God's right hand man) who, on the DC9 ground school (as I recall the tale) was given a "special" Dusty exam paper. After everyone else had finished and gone to the pub, Dusty was still tearing his hair out trying to figure the paper ... eventually the boys let on .. I didn't hear the exact response but I have no doubt that it may have been a tad blistering ...
In the old days (nerus/Soren) it was did you know it. Now it is can you understand the question and triple negatives in a sentence don't help
But, given what happens in the rest of CASA, why would you expect any difference.
Tootle pip!!
Deaf In the old days (nerus/Soren) it was did you know it. Now it is can you understand the question and triple negatives in a sentence don't help
Now, it is 'can you understand the question?' Triple negatives in a sentence don't help.
The irony
While you're at it chalk up 500 multi command at your desk. The rest of us did it at 20 hours a month. Spent more time underneath the baron polishing it, or changing its tyres.
Nice guys come last EVERY time.
Nice guys come last EVERY time.
I've done some fairly challenging things but nothing compares to passing the flight planning exam.
Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 15th Oct 2013 at 05:17.
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I recall a year or two ago when I was studying for flight planning I failed the first time and came onto this very website to have a whinge about it. Within the next day I had received PMs from two different users asking me if I wanted the answer sheet to all the questions. Cheating certainly is rife, especially if people I don't even know are offering me the answers.
PS You're only cheating yourself me thinks.
I'll get back to polishing and washing planes now. Wax on, wax off!
PS You're only cheating yourself me thinks.
I'll get back to polishing and washing planes now. Wax on, wax off!
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Funny thing is that the pommie / JAA / EASA whatever it's called these days, system, is a blatant exercise in rote learning :
All the schools have all the questions and answers in a big databank and the "brush up courses" basically consist of a couple of weeks doing practice exam after practice exam of the actual questions and answers, until you can regurgitate them in your sleep. Someone who is good with exam technique and memorization could get 100% in the JAA ATPLs and never set foot in an aircraft. And they still reckon that is supposed to be the superior "gold standard" of pilot licences
I haven't done the FAA ATPL but I understand it's the same - all just memorize all the freely available questions and answers and you're good to go.
All the schools have all the questions and answers in a big databank and the "brush up courses" basically consist of a couple of weeks doing practice exam after practice exam of the actual questions and answers, until you can regurgitate them in your sleep. Someone who is good with exam technique and memorization could get 100% in the JAA ATPLs and never set foot in an aircraft. And they still reckon that is supposed to be the superior "gold standard" of pilot licences
I haven't done the FAA ATPL but I understand it's the same - all just memorize all the freely available questions and answers and you're good to go.
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Part of the fault must lie with the testing provider, the grumpy lady at Maroochydore checked all my books, I know from others that this did not happen at other testing locations.