Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
Hello, i am currently in year 9 and i hope to become like a lot of pilots here and my friends would like to be pilots too. I am currently working on my RPL but i am confused about what to do in the future. I have seen bad reviews on cadet ships but i can see that it could be a quick way to get in the airline if well done. and i have been seeing university courses that is AB initio. i am just looking for advice on how to approach working for an airline and if i should work on any other licenses after my RPL. I am very confused and i can see too many ways to approach this but not know which ones are the good ways. I have a passion for aviation and i hope to be living my childhood dream one day as so a lot of other teenagers like me. We are asking for any type of advice for us and if we could get help. I am sorry to the current pilots that are affected by COVID-19, i guess we cant do a lot about it other than staying strong and being together. thanks and have a good day.
After dropping out of high school in year 10 in mid 1960s I went on to have a 42 year aviation career, the last 15 in command of wide body jets, no one, including me, thought that would have been possible. Good luck
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If you're in year 9 now, I reckon you're at the right time to make a career of it in aviation. Remember these down turns in the industry happens in cycles of 5 to 7 years. I dare say in 7 years time, when you're in your early 20's things will be a lot different with the industry back to as normal as it can be after the dust settles.
Who pays for your flying training because you had better start saving now. It will cost you many thousands of $$$ unless you join the RAAF. Before you even consider being a pilot make sure you have another skill behind you - administrative or trade. Because for sure you may have to fall back on it to make a living if you lose your flying job in circumstances beyond your control. Chances are likely that will happen
He did and got answers from pilots.
If the OP researches through PPruNE and other sites he will find hundreds of similar answers and opinions from pilots all over the world.
In common:
If the OP researches through PPruNE and other sites he will find hundreds of similar answers and opinions from pilots all over the world.
In common:
- Today's pilots need an alternative non-aviation dependent skill to see them through likely periods of unemployment as a pilot
- If still at school, it is best to obtain that skill prior to commencing flying
- Best path financially (and for quality training) to become a pilot is the military - if you can make the cut and live with the return of service
- If you can't, next best is a cadetship underwritten by an airline which offers employment at the end of training
- Pay-to-fly is a mug's game, but if you have a tidy inheritance or indulgent parents, go for it and hope that the returns from a flying career justify the investment
- At selection time chances of flying job are directly influenced by supply and demand
- Supply and demand (disadvantaging pilots) changes literally overnight - recovery to favor pilots can take years
- Even in good times pilots are not united enough to obtain better terms and conditions - in bad times it is dog eat dog
- So-called 'legacy' airlines no longer guarantee a job for life
- The golden days when we got to actually make our own calculations, work the throttles and physically fly the aeroplane are all but gone - automation rules and Big Brother (flight data monitoring) has killed any pleasure we once took from 'spirited flying' (as was encouraged by an old instructor handbook I still treasure, irrelevant as it now is)
- If you really must get married, find yourself a 'keeper' (and you are not getting mine!) who will stick with you wherever in the world your career takes you, and through periods of low or no income
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 6th Apr 2020 at 00:17.
Mach E Avelli:
Respectfully, I disagree with your last two points.
One piece of advice that I was given and have taken to heart is: As often as possible, handfly from start up to TOC, and from TOD to shutdown. It will keep your skills sharp, your scan active, and will help you on the day that the autopilot gives up the ghost. The requirement for autopilot for these bits is an early indicator that scan and skills might be declining.
In my opinion, a relationship (doesn't have to be marriage) can be the best thing to keep you sane, solvent and sober. It can also be the most soul destroying thing ever. I do agree its probably cheaper to choose once and wisely, rather than one for every stage of your career.
Although, somebody once joked (?) to me that you are not a real pilot until you've had your first divorce. :-) :-)
Respectfully, I disagree with your last two points.
One piece of advice that I was given and have taken to heart is: As often as possible, handfly from start up to TOC, and from TOD to shutdown. It will keep your skills sharp, your scan active, and will help you on the day that the autopilot gives up the ghost. The requirement for autopilot for these bits is an early indicator that scan and skills might be declining.
In my opinion, a relationship (doesn't have to be marriage) can be the best thing to keep you sane, solvent and sober. It can also be the most soul destroying thing ever. I do agree its probably cheaper to choose once and wisely, rather than one for every stage of your career.
Although, somebody once joked (?) to me that you are not a real pilot until you've had your first divorce. :-) :-)
There's no disputing that we should hand fly as much as possible to maintain skills. The problem is that some operators actively discourage it, and operations may even prohibit it - e.g. SIDs, STARS, LNAV/VNAV approaches, Low Visibility approaches.
Chuck in a minimum number of autolands on long haul operations to keep certification going, and each pilot could be lucky to get two or three manual landings a month. And woe betide you if you ARE hand flying and exceed 0.25nm off track or 30 degrees bank angle or two knots on a speed limit - you will be in for tea and bickies with the boss, or in the case of some overseas carriers, dismissed without notice.
To their credit the FAA and manufacturers have re-thought the importance of hand flying, but mostly it is still left to simulator training to put the philosophy into practice.
The monitoring 'system' parameters are unforgiving of even quite minor transgressions on line operations, so pilots are reluctant to disconnect the automatics and play at being real (even if twice divorced) pilots.
Plenty of debate elsewhere on all this too. The points raised, as I said, are a common theme.
Chuck in a minimum number of autolands on long haul operations to keep certification going, and each pilot could be lucky to get two or three manual landings a month. And woe betide you if you ARE hand flying and exceed 0.25nm off track or 30 degrees bank angle or two knots on a speed limit - you will be in for tea and bickies with the boss, or in the case of some overseas carriers, dismissed without notice.
To their credit the FAA and manufacturers have re-thought the importance of hand flying, but mostly it is still left to simulator training to put the philosophy into practice.
The monitoring 'system' parameters are unforgiving of even quite minor transgressions on line operations, so pilots are reluctant to disconnect the automatics and play at being real (even if twice divorced) pilots.
Plenty of debate elsewhere on all this too. The points raised, as I said, are a common theme.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 7th Apr 2020 at 23:31. Reason: typo
Handflying is not in the long term plan of manufacturers and airlines to deskill the pilot job and fully automate the flight deck. They have a point, undeniably, safety has improved with automation.
Is slavishly following a flight director with A/T on really hand flying? Or merely being a meat powered autopilot?
Being old school, I used to like to hand fly, but I now concede it’s no longer an essential skill. You’d be surprised at how many people these days that can’t fly a decent, accurate visual circuit without the A/T. It used to worry me, but I now get the point of the “brave new world” of autonomous flight.
The (solo) airline pilot of the future, will start, taxi and chat to the tower. Line up, press a button and at TOC will go back to the crew rest area until TOD. The aircraft will land and he will taxi up to the gate and shut down. Every day, there are dozens of military UAVs plying the skies of the Middle East doing exactly this. Technology like this soon to be coming to an airliner near you.
The joy of actually poling around the skies will only be found in gliding, aerobatics and RA. i.e. stuff you have to pay to do.
Is slavishly following a flight director with A/T on really hand flying? Or merely being a meat powered autopilot?
Being old school, I used to like to hand fly, but I now concede it’s no longer an essential skill. You’d be surprised at how many people these days that can’t fly a decent, accurate visual circuit without the A/T. It used to worry me, but I now get the point of the “brave new world” of autonomous flight.
The (solo) airline pilot of the future, will start, taxi and chat to the tower. Line up, press a button and at TOC will go back to the crew rest area until TOD. The aircraft will land and he will taxi up to the gate and shut down. Every day, there are dozens of military UAVs plying the skies of the Middle East doing exactly this. Technology like this soon to be coming to an airliner near you.
The joy of actually poling around the skies will only be found in gliding, aerobatics and RA. i.e. stuff you have to pay to do.
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Handflying is not in the long term plan of manufacturers and airlines to deskill the pilot job and fully automate the flight deck. They have a point, undeniably, safety has improved with automation.
Is slavishly following a flight director with A/T on really hand flying? Or merely being a meat powered autopilot?
Being old school, I used to like to hand fly, but I now concede it’s no longer an essential skill. You’d be surprised at how many people these days that can’t fly a decent, accurate visual circuit without the A/T. It used to worry me, but I now get the point of the “brave new world” of autonomous flight.
The (solo) airline pilot of the future, will start, taxi and chat to the tower. Line up, press a button and at TOC will go back to the crew rest area until TOD. The aircraft will land and he will taxi up to the gate and shut down. Every day, there are dozens of military UAVs plying the skies of the Middle East doing exactly this. Technology like this soon to be coming to an airliner near you.
The joy of actually poling around the skies will only be found in gliding, aerobatics and RA. i.e. stuff you have to pay to do.
Is slavishly following a flight director with A/T on really hand flying? Or merely being a meat powered autopilot?
Being old school, I used to like to hand fly, but I now concede it’s no longer an essential skill. You’d be surprised at how many people these days that can’t fly a decent, accurate visual circuit without the A/T. It used to worry me, but I now get the point of the “brave new world” of autonomous flight.
The (solo) airline pilot of the future, will start, taxi and chat to the tower. Line up, press a button and at TOC will go back to the crew rest area until TOD. The aircraft will land and he will taxi up to the gate and shut down. Every day, there are dozens of military UAVs plying the skies of the Middle East doing exactly this. Technology like this soon to be coming to an airliner near you.
The joy of actually poling around the skies will only be found in gliding, aerobatics and RA. i.e. stuff you have to pay to do.
its a skill that's becoming redundant and with the way technology is progressing it probably won't be even needed at any stage.
some years ago when I was a coe'y on the 'bus' I wanted to do a full manually controlled landing, A/P off A/T off. Was a clear day low work load via an ILS, turned the 'help off half way down the slope and the Capt imeadiately sat bolt upright looking very tense and pale! Was the funniest thing to see!
Flyng is slowly becoming a ' skill-less trade'
some years ago when I was a coe'y on the 'bus' I wanted to do a full manually controlled landing, A/P off A/T off. Was a clear day low work load via an ILS, turned the 'help off half way down the slope and the Capt imeadiately sat bolt upright looking very tense and pale! Was the funniest thing to see!
Quote Lucille
". Every day, there are dozens of military UAVs plying the skies of the Middle East doing exactly this. Technology like this soon to be coming to an airliner near you."
And according to an article published in the Washington post a few years ago. The accident rate is very high due to lots of reasons, the main one being lack of SA.
Automation has too many gotchas to get easily accepted by pax (and by the informed public).
Cheers
Seabreeze
( See you the other side of the Covid curtain)
". Every day, there are dozens of military UAVs plying the skies of the Middle East doing exactly this. Technology like this soon to be coming to an airliner near you."
And according to an article published in the Washington post a few years ago. The accident rate is very high due to lots of reasons, the main one being lack of SA.
Automation has too many gotchas to get easily accepted by pax (and by the informed public).
Cheers
Seabreeze
( See you the other side of the Covid curtain)
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My flying experience sofar
Good afternoon all,
I have recently taken up the dream if learning to fly at the age of 35. Yesterday was my third flight lesson learning all about climbing and descending. The first two lessons were relatively good, I was able to control the aircraft well. Yesterday however I was not even remotely close to competent. Without delving into the specifics of actually how poorly I performed I am interested in knowing if this sort of thing is common when you start out? Can you have lessons you completely stuff up? Did you ever fell like you just didn't have what it took?
I have recently taken up the dream if learning to fly at the age of 35. Yesterday was my third flight lesson learning all about climbing and descending. The first two lessons were relatively good, I was able to control the aircraft well. Yesterday however I was not even remotely close to competent. Without delving into the specifics of actually how poorly I performed I am interested in knowing if this sort of thing is common when you start out? Can you have lessons you completely stuff up? Did you ever fell like you just didn't have what it took?
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Good afternoon all,
I have recently taken up the dream if learning to fly at the age of 35. Yesterday was my third flight lesson learning all about climbing and descending. The first two lessons were relatively good, I was able to control the aircraft well. Yesterday however I was not even remotely close to competent. Without delving into the specifics of actually how poorly I performed I am interested in knowing if this sort of thing is common when you start out? Can you have lessons you completely stuff up? Did you ever fell like you just didn't have what it took?
I have recently taken up the dream if learning to fly at the age of 35. Yesterday was my third flight lesson learning all about climbing and descending. The first two lessons were relatively good, I was able to control the aircraft well. Yesterday however I was not even remotely close to competent. Without delving into the specifics of actually how poorly I performed I am interested in knowing if this sort of thing is common when you start out? Can you have lessons you completely stuff up? Did you ever fell like you just didn't have what it took?
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Pilot Training in Australia
I have been looking at becoming a pilot and getting the Bachelor of Aviation and Graduate Diploma in Aviation through RMIT, Swinburne, Griffith, UNISA etc. I'm not sure whether getting the degree is worth it, do airlines etc. care about the degree or should I just go to a flight school?
There are also cadet programs from REX, Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar that I could apply for at 18 (I turn 17 in July) I finish school this year so would have to have a "gap year" So I would need to wait to apply.
Also what are the thoughts on Hunter Valley Aviation (BASAIR) or what flight schools are recommended that allow FEE-HELP?
There are also cadet programs from REX, Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar that I could apply for at 18 (I turn 17 in July) I finish school this year so would have to have a "gap year" So I would need to wait to apply.
Also what are the thoughts on Hunter Valley Aviation (BASAIR) or what flight schools are recommended that allow FEE-HELP?
Last edited by Anthony11; 22nd Jun 2020 at 12:25.
Hello Anthony,
The next few years will be tough for airlines in Australia. I doubt there will be any cadetships on offer for some time. It might be a bit different when you finish Yr 12 but don't let flying schools fool you into believing you will get straight into Qlink or REX when you finish.
I did an economics degree instead of an Aviation based one. Aviation degrees aren't very useful outside of the aviation industry. Business, Engineering or Science is much more marketable as a skill.
Take a discovery flight just to make sure you like flying.
Cheers
The next few years will be tough for airlines in Australia. I doubt there will be any cadetships on offer for some time. It might be a bit different when you finish Yr 12 but don't let flying schools fool you into believing you will get straight into Qlink or REX when you finish.
I did an economics degree instead of an Aviation based one. Aviation degrees aren't very useful outside of the aviation industry. Business, Engineering or Science is much more marketable as a skill.
Take a discovery flight just to make sure you like flying.
Cheers
Hevilift Cadetship
https://hevilift.com/job/cadet-pilot...ane-full-time/
Just incase there wasn’t already enough of a shortage of work!
Just incase there wasn’t already enough of a shortage of work!
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NEWBIE TO FLIGHT TRAINING, NEED HELP
Hello everyone, i am a current year 12 student hoping to start my flight training next year 2021, i have done a fair amount of research but i still have a lot of questions. I am located in NSW but don't mind going anywhere to train.
Currently i have a few options:
1) Qantas group pilot academy
2) UNSW
3) Griffith university
4) Flight training Adelaide
WHICH OPTION WOULD BE THE BEST FOR ME? My ultimate goal is to become a large airline pilot such as Qantas or Jetstar, i however am well aware this process will take a long time.
QUESTIONS:
1) Successful selection into the Qantas program is difficulty, any tips on getting selected? (high school results, flying hours, millitary experience)
2) Universities are seen as a bad option as they take too long, should i listen to this advice or pursuit university studies at Griffith or UNSW over a private flight school?
3) IS THERE REALLY A PILOT SHORTAGE?
4) Upon graduating at Griffith, do you obtain: PPL, CPL, ME CIR, ATPL?
5) Universities have the Qantas Future Pilot program, approximately how many student get selected to become Qantas pilots?
It would be really appreciated if these questions could be answered.
Hello everyone, i am a current year 12 student hoping to start my flight training next year 2021, i have done a fair amount of research but i still have a lot of questions. I am located in NSW but don't mind going anywhere to train.
Currently i have a few options:
1) Qantas group pilot academy
2) UNSW
3) Griffith university
4) Flight training Adelaide
WHICH OPTION WOULD BE THE BEST FOR ME? My ultimate goal is to become a large airline pilot such as Qantas or Jetstar, i however am well aware this process will take a long time.
QUESTIONS:
1) Successful selection into the Qantas program is difficulty, any tips on getting selected? (high school results, flying hours, millitary experience)
2) Universities are seen as a bad option as they take too long, should i listen to this advice or pursuit university studies at Griffith or UNSW over a private flight school?
3) IS THERE REALLY A PILOT SHORTAGE?
4) Upon graduating at Griffith, do you obtain: PPL, CPL, ME CIR, ATPL?
5) Universities have the Qantas Future Pilot program, approximately how many student get selected to become Qantas pilots?
It would be really appreciated if these questions could be answered.