Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Just to give you a little of my personal experience.
I'm an Australian that left for the USA to specifically flight train around 7 years ago after realizing the cost was piling up after working on my GFPT. The training was cheaper, more laid back, a huge variety of flying and an amazing infrastructure to fly in also. Opportunities for career progression are plentiful at all levels here also if you decide to stay.
Good luck with your training!
I'm an Australian that left for the USA to specifically flight train around 7 years ago after realizing the cost was piling up after working on my GFPT. The training was cheaper, more laid back, a huge variety of flying and an amazing infrastructure to fly in also. Opportunities for career progression are plentiful at all levels here also if you decide to stay.
Good luck with your training!
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I understand that you want to work here in Australia. However, is that work and live forever? Are your friends / family mainly in Europe?
What I'm getting to is figuring our where you want to fly is a very important question - long term.
Should you decide to work in Australia and move back to Europe then you have relocation costs. Your CASA license will need to be converted to an EASA license - same if you want to train in Canada or the US. Regardless of when you will relocate, costs will be associated with conversions. Not to mention the time involved in relocating and studying for the conversion exams.
You avoid those by going - here's were I want to fly and live for the rest of my flying career. Wherever that may be, get your license there, look for work there and fly there. Opportunities are everywhere but are only seen by those putting an effort in to look for them.
Clare Prop's point is a deal break - you can't work here if you do not have the legal right. No point in trying to get a sponsorship post training, that won't work. You need to get that sorted prior to commencing training. If residency is not an issue, then you're over one 1 hurdle.
It sounds like your in the planning stage and don't expect to be training in a few years time. Take this time to study theory of whichever license you're endeavour to get. Study now whilst you can as it will make the training easier when that happens - you can buy all the books online.
Remember a review is just a person's point of view. It's human nature to have different points of views. What might work for one might not work for another. No point in investing your money and time in a school based on someone's point of view. You need to determine whether it is right for you. If that means paying them a visit then so be it. You'll be thankful in putting down $2k for a flight and a visit to them and realising it's not for you or putting down $100k when the time comes and it does not work due to the school.
Lastly, don't try and budget this - wherever you will go, training costs money. It's your responsibility to make sure there is a return on your investment, in the form of a career.
I wish you well.
What I'm getting to is figuring our where you want to fly is a very important question - long term.
Should you decide to work in Australia and move back to Europe then you have relocation costs. Your CASA license will need to be converted to an EASA license - same if you want to train in Canada or the US. Regardless of when you will relocate, costs will be associated with conversions. Not to mention the time involved in relocating and studying for the conversion exams.
You avoid those by going - here's were I want to fly and live for the rest of my flying career. Wherever that may be, get your license there, look for work there and fly there. Opportunities are everywhere but are only seen by those putting an effort in to look for them.
Clare Prop's point is a deal break - you can't work here if you do not have the legal right. No point in trying to get a sponsorship post training, that won't work. You need to get that sorted prior to commencing training. If residency is not an issue, then you're over one 1 hurdle.
It sounds like your in the planning stage and don't expect to be training in a few years time. Take this time to study theory of whichever license you're endeavour to get. Study now whilst you can as it will make the training easier when that happens - you can buy all the books online.
Remember a review is just a person's point of view. It's human nature to have different points of views. What might work for one might not work for another. No point in investing your money and time in a school based on someone's point of view. You need to determine whether it is right for you. If that means paying them a visit then so be it. You'll be thankful in putting down $2k for a flight and a visit to them and realising it's not for you or putting down $100k when the time comes and it does not work due to the school.
Lastly, don't try and budget this - wherever you will go, training costs money. It's your responsibility to make sure there is a return on your investment, in the form of a career.
I wish you well.
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What does a responsible instructor do when their student is sent out solo that justifies the latter to pay dual rate? Serious question.
I'm obviously not saying that any work (of value) on the instructor part should be at no cost for the student but I find that charging as much as dual rate on solo navigations is nothing short of fraud. I'd be happy to be educated to the contrary, that is.
I'm obviously not saying that any work (of value) on the instructor part should be at no cost for the student but I find that charging as much as dual rate on solo navigations is nothing short of fraud. I'd be happy to be educated to the contrary, that is.
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Hi all fresh out of flight school and am eager to start looking for a job, willing to do volunteer GA flying within Sydney appreciate some help or ideas for job hunting especially with such a large community pilot base here on PPRuNE!
My qualifiactions are: 220 hours flight with a muilti-engine command instrument rating, commercial pilot license and ATPL theory
My qualifiactions are: 220 hours flight with a muilti-engine command instrument rating, commercial pilot license and ATPL theory
a) Your parents funded your entire CPL and ATPL theory
b) You live at home with your parents and so you can just sit back, do a bit of part time work, bit of "volunteering", and have a cruisy lifestyle, all whilst getting those hours up before applying for the big airline gig
c) both a and b
d) none of the above / apologies for making assumptions
What is concerning is that you have made it all the way through your CPL and you have no idea of how frowned upon the idea of volunteering really is. Suggest you search for the topic on these forums and get an idea on what would happen to the industry if "volunteering" became a thing.
The other thing that surprises me is that the vast majority of pilots have gone through so many sacrifices, hardships, disappointments, rejections etc and most did it the hard way (went bush / military / overseas). Yet from your short and most likely unintentionally naive post, you are looking for the easy option. Please just do yourself a favour and get informed, do some research, speak to some pilots but primarily - read these forums.
Can I ask where / what sort of flight school you went to? I'm curious to know how you can spend 2 years at a place and come up with such a concept as "GA volunteer work"
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As someone eloquently said so above, it may be a good idea to start your journey with an Aussie PPL first and defer the decision to pursue your career down under to a later stage. Converting a PPL between ICAO member countries is a relatively straightforward task. If you really like so much here and, assuming that you work out a working visa for yourself, then you could just carry on with a CPL and so on. Canada, the US and New Zealand came up as alternatives. If you're on a shoestring, you also have to consider the cost of living where Australia still comes with a certain price tag. While there may be other factors why you favor Australia (lover, surfing, roos, ...), I'd actually also consider South Africa. Have a look at http://www.mbsf.co.za for instance. The quote for an ab initio CPL + multi engine instrument rating is RAND 363k, or around EUR 23k at this time, additionally you'll still be able to afford a very comfortable lifestyle on a typical European low budget. This is just one school I happen to have heard from, and is in no way an exception to the average flight training fees in South Africa.
Last edited by Okihara; 17th Feb 2019 at 22:12.
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Who checks the nav? Who authorises the nav? Who debriefs you? Who writes up your training file, Who has to answer to Airservices or CASA if you stuff up? Who has to front the coroner should the worst happen? Once you figure out the answer to that, Who should pay this person?
The business owner is responsible for paying their employees. The business owner sets the rates that they charge customers. The customer gets to make the judgement as to whether the rate is fair value.
The only link between what the customer pays and what the employee gets paid is that - overall - customers need to pay enough to cover employee wages, other overheads and hopefully make a profit.
I'm obviously not saying that any work (of value) on the instructor part should be at no cost for the student but I find that charging as much as dual rate on solo navigations is nothing short of fraud. I'd be happy to be educated to the contrary, that is.
Some of my students are doctors, some are tradesman. both these professions charge more per day and earn more per year. I would argue that I deserve at least as much as a tradesman. I was one once. Sadly I fall way short over 12 months but the lifestyle makes up for it.
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RHSandLovingIt Thanks for your comments. In reverse order... My wife is understanding and has already made sacrifices beyond any expectations just so I can get as far as I have. I couldn't want for a better partner in my life. It will be a struggle to continue to fund my flying and not have this affect my ability to give the kids everything they want in their life but careful planning and budgeting will hopefully allow for me to chip away slowly.
I was wet behind the ears when I accrued those first few hours and the flight school told me, in no uncertain terms, "the logbook lives here [in the flight office bookcase]" so that's where it stayed. In hindsight I should have taken it, as you are correct, it was/is my ultimate responsibility. Live and learn. I couldn't even tell you the names of my instructors from back then so I'll just write that one off as a life learning experience.
As for end jobs, Number one on my list is an airline job - shiny jet syndrome? Maybe. But that is what I want and that is the goal. I'll do anything to get there. Having said that, I also have pragmatism and understand that I could be 45-50 before the opportunity presents itself - (I'm not buying into the pilot shortage)... and would an airline even take on a 50 year old 'graduate'?
If it doesn't come to pass, anything that puts me in the air brings a smile to my face [literally every time] so instructing, GA, charter and anything in between would still fill the hole in my life and bring me the satisfaction I have been seeking for nearly 40 years.
Thanks again for your comments.
I was wet behind the ears when I accrued those first few hours and the flight school told me, in no uncertain terms, "the logbook lives here [in the flight office bookcase]" so that's where it stayed. In hindsight I should have taken it, as you are correct, it was/is my ultimate responsibility. Live and learn. I couldn't even tell you the names of my instructors from back then so I'll just write that one off as a life learning experience.
As for end jobs, Number one on my list is an airline job - shiny jet syndrome? Maybe. But that is what I want and that is the goal. I'll do anything to get there. Having said that, I also have pragmatism and understand that I could be 45-50 before the opportunity presents itself - (I'm not buying into the pilot shortage)... and would an airline even take on a 50 year old 'graduate'?
If it doesn't come to pass, anything that puts me in the air brings a smile to my face [literally every time] so instructing, GA, charter and anything in between would still fill the hole in my life and bring me the satisfaction I have been seeking for nearly 40 years.
Thanks again for your comments.
Post deleted. A reminder to all contributers that advertising is not allowed on this site.
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Last edited by Charlie Foxtrot India; 18th Feb 2019 at 01:20. Reason: Poster promoting a business and providing links to other aviation sites
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Aussie Bob
I understand the point you're making and I would never suggest that flight instructor is any less deserving than the other professions you're mentioning. I believe your case, being a one man operation, makes it somewhat special too because you're obviously not that 20+ year old instructor who just happens to be there to clock in enough time to get your FO position in the first place. To add some flesh to the bone of my argument, please understand it so:
1. The solo rate covers the aircraft costs and yields a profit, the dual rate covers the instructor fee on top of the solo rate. That's how most people see it. I wouldn't know that time done at dual rate covers utility bills for instance, but I might be wrong.
2. My remark was made in the context of a larger YMMB flight school, one of those with an average of 10+ junior instructors, and where students are akin to cash cows that can be milked and tossed around, where scheduled lessons can be cancelled at short notice to accommodate for TIFs (a classic – my time is an infinitely flexible resource but yours isn't).
I have a feeling that you nurture both a more personal and professional relationship to your students and that's without a doubt much appreciated. Your students probably graduate with fewer hours too. As for the greedier flight schools, my message to prospective students is: beware of shiny good looks. It is an unfortunate reality that the schools that seem to worry more about their popularity on instagram than the actual value they offer are incidentally also those that thrive these days but that doesn't correlate with quality instruction.
From the student's perspective, I honestly can't really say what warrants being charged dual rate on solo navigations. That's from my personal experience having had instructors that couldn't seem to care less. Solo navigation routes were all predefined, thus allowing little to no degree of freedom, to aerodromes that had been previously visited. Preflight briefings involved minimal input, debriefings were more proforma and often had to be deferred to the following day because said instructor was out flying with another student when I'd return. On that basis, I would never have accepted to pay dual rate.
I do believe that today's technology could add elements that involve more inputs from the instructor on solo navigations though, e.g. record cockpit audio and video and analyse the footage during debriefing for instance, or have the instructor call you (bluetooth pairing) at 10 nm inbound and follow your broadcasts and joining procedure and be available for queries.
Ultimately, I concur with you that one can't objectively assess a school on the basis of what it charges alone. Unfortunately, there's currently a lack of good metric out there to compare flight schools. Moreover, I understand most people are recreational or private pilots, i.e. one-offs who will ever only be students at a single school, and hence have no means of comparison, and once licenced, won't need one any more. Most reviews are polarised (and often biased with instructors themselves leaving comments) offering no objective insights. Schedules of fees based on CASA minimums are also meaningless. So here's an improvement: schools should dare to advertise the average costs their students incurred to obtain their licence. Better yet would be the distribution thereof. Or the average pass rate on the first flight test attempt. The average difference between flight time and total engine time. Those are the metrics that don't lie and really count in my opinion.
I understand the point you're making and I would never suggest that flight instructor is any less deserving than the other professions you're mentioning. I believe your case, being a one man operation, makes it somewhat special too because you're obviously not that 20+ year old instructor who just happens to be there to clock in enough time to get your FO position in the first place. To add some flesh to the bone of my argument, please understand it so:
1. The solo rate covers the aircraft costs and yields a profit, the dual rate covers the instructor fee on top of the solo rate. That's how most people see it. I wouldn't know that time done at dual rate covers utility bills for instance, but I might be wrong.
2. My remark was made in the context of a larger YMMB flight school, one of those with an average of 10+ junior instructors, and where students are akin to cash cows that can be milked and tossed around, where scheduled lessons can be cancelled at short notice to accommodate for TIFs (a classic – my time is an infinitely flexible resource but yours isn't).
I have a feeling that you nurture both a more personal and professional relationship to your students and that's without a doubt much appreciated. Your students probably graduate with fewer hours too. As for the greedier flight schools, my message to prospective students is: beware of shiny good looks. It is an unfortunate reality that the schools that seem to worry more about their popularity on instagram than the actual value they offer are incidentally also those that thrive these days but that doesn't correlate with quality instruction.
From the student's perspective, I honestly can't really say what warrants being charged dual rate on solo navigations. That's from my personal experience having had instructors that couldn't seem to care less. Solo navigation routes were all predefined, thus allowing little to no degree of freedom, to aerodromes that had been previously visited. Preflight briefings involved minimal input, debriefings were more proforma and often had to be deferred to the following day because said instructor was out flying with another student when I'd return. On that basis, I would never have accepted to pay dual rate.
I do believe that today's technology could add elements that involve more inputs from the instructor on solo navigations though, e.g. record cockpit audio and video and analyse the footage during debriefing for instance, or have the instructor call you (bluetooth pairing) at 10 nm inbound and follow your broadcasts and joining procedure and be available for queries.
Ultimately, I concur with you that one can't objectively assess a school on the basis of what it charges alone. Unfortunately, there's currently a lack of good metric out there to compare flight schools. Moreover, I understand most people are recreational or private pilots, i.e. one-offs who will ever only be students at a single school, and hence have no means of comparison, and once licenced, won't need one any more. Most reviews are polarised (and often biased with instructors themselves leaving comments) offering no objective insights. Schedules of fees based on CASA minimums are also meaningless. So here's an improvement: schools should dare to advertise the average costs their students incurred to obtain their licence. Better yet would be the distribution thereof. Or the average pass rate on the first flight test attempt. The average difference between flight time and total engine time. Those are the metrics that don't lie and really count in my opinion.
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Just to give you a little of my personal experience.
I'm an Australian that left for the USA to specifically flight train around 7 years ago after realizing the cost was piling up after working on my GFPT. The training was cheaper, more laid back, a huge variety of flying and an amazing infrastructure to fly in also. Opportunities for career progression are plentiful at all levels here also if you decide to stay.
Good luck with your training!
I'm an Australian that left for the USA to specifically flight train around 7 years ago after realizing the cost was piling up after working on my GFPT. The training was cheaper, more laid back, a huge variety of flying and an amazing infrastructure to fly in also. Opportunities for career progression are plentiful at all levels here also if you decide to stay.
Good luck with your training!
What does a responsible instructor do when their student is sent out solo that justifies the latter to pay dual rate? Serious question.
I'm obviously not saying that any work (of value) on the instructor part should be at no cost for the student but I find that charging as much as dual rate on solo navigations is nothing short of fraud. I'd be happy to be educated to the contrary, that is.
I'm obviously not saying that any work (of value) on the instructor part should be at no cost for the student but I find that charging as much as dual rate on solo navigations is nothing short of fraud. I'd be happy to be educated to the contrary, that is.
Aussie Bob
From the student's perspective, I honestly can't really say what warrants being charged dual rate on solo navigations. That's from my personal experience having had instructors that couldn't seem to care less. Solo navigation routes were all predefined, thus allowing little to no degree of freedom, to aerodromes that had been previously visited. Preflight briefings involved minimal input, debriefings were more proforma and often had to be deferred to the following day because said instructor was out flying with another student when I'd return. On that basis, I would never have accepted to pay dual rate.
From the student's perspective, I honestly can't really say what warrants being charged dual rate on solo navigations. That's from my personal experience having had instructors that couldn't seem to care less. Solo navigation routes were all predefined, thus allowing little to no degree of freedom, to aerodromes that had been previously visited. Preflight briefings involved minimal input, debriefings were more proforma and often had to be deferred to the following day because said instructor was out flying with another student when I'd return. On that basis, I would never have accepted to pay dual rate.
What work you ask?
As a supervising instructor (eg for 2nd solo nav) they should check the weather and notams (often well in advance of the student), make sure the aircraft has been given its daily and is available, (again usually before the student arrives). On the basis of the weather they will have already decided what the risks are and if they think it should proceed. On arrival they will get the student to brief them on the weather and will check their flightplan before departure. It is not unknown to notice they have totally stuffed one leg with a reciprocal heading or miscalculation of wind. They will raise issues about notams the student has missed so better be sure they checked them first. They must brief the student on what is expected - eg where to land (in some cases they need to make 2 full stop landings), what issues they may encounter, to remind them about the weather conditions (if appropriate) and what options they have if they encounter problems. They will discuss the decsion to proceed and what they should do and not do, all using their professional judgement, training and experience.
After the student departs, the instructor will not be out of contact until they return, ie they cannot leave work, whether they have other students, briefings, other work *or not* in that time or are sitting in the office idle, they need to be available. They cannot just knock off and go home.
If the student calls ("I am at Dubbo and the ptt switch is not working - what do I do?", "I am at Goulburn and there seem to be lots of thunderstorms on the way home, should I stay here the night?"), they need to be available and give appropriate advice.
If the student isn't back and the instructor is concerned that they should be, the instructor is the one who is expected to call their mobile to see if all is OK. When the mobile doesn't respond and their concern is sufficient, they will be the one who will call flight service and asks if the aircraft can be raised on radio. They will also be the one who sits sweating when they hear back that flight service cannot raise them. They will be the one double checking their sartime and their calculated endurance after finding out earlier in the flight, they revised it. They will be the one ringing people they might know at any of the airports the student may have landed at.
They are the ones who silently sigh with relief when they hear the student turn up inbound. On arrival they will ask them how it went, remind them to cancel their sartime, ask them if they heard Melbourne centre calling them and ask them what frequency they were on and hear them sheepishly admit they forgot to switch from a CTAF frequency for most of the return leg and discuss any other issues they may have had or questions that arise.
They will be the one who updates their training record and makes sure it is all in order for when CASA audits the school. They will be the one who has to explain to the CFI if they are any discrepencies, and whether all requirements have been met and details completed.
They will also be the one who will be asked to explain why the student penetrated control airspace without a clearance, had they been appropriately trained and what the instructor and school will be doing to insure that doesn't happen again.
God forbid, if something nasty happens, they will be Johnny on the spot, contacting those who need to know and later they will be the ones who will be quizzed, why did the instructor judge the student capable of this flight alone? did they appropriately brief them? check their plan? train them? overlook anything? etc.
You think paying them for this work is fraud? Instructor wages are generally the lowest in the industry as it is. That is the nature of the game. Pay them more and ask students to pay more and you would find students would walk away. Pay them more and ask the school to subsidise that? Schools would fold - it is not viable. You want to instruct? It is not the gravy train end of the industry. Do it because you want to. Even if you are looking beyond instructing, do it because you want to, not because you must. There are many schools with instructors who enjoy instructing and want to offer good value to their students and employer.
Supervising solo students is a serious responsibility and I think it appropriate to recognise and reward people for it. Most other jobs pay people to be on call or to be the person in charge of ensuring a safe and successful outcome. ATC are not paid by the number of aircraft they handle or times they push the radio button on any day. Tower controllers at a GA aerodrome who spend a wet and windy monday doing little because no one is flying still get paid the same for being there. Doctors on call who aren't called will still be paid. Why not instructors assuming responsibility for a school's reputation and particularly an individual student's and aircraft's safety?
Are there some schools who do not act responsibly? Yes. You seem to have found one. That school is not all schools. Don't tar all with the same brush.
Not all schools are full of junior instructors with no love (or work ethic) for instructing and who are only hour building and see instructing (and students) as a necessary evil in their journey.
You want to find a good school? Shop around, visit schools, talk to their students, see what they offer.
Don't look just at price but at the experience level of their staff and their focus on their customers.
See what sort of training they specialise in.
See if you like their style (different schools cater for different types of students), judge if you feel they want to offer you something more than the minimum.
Sometimes good value means paying more.
Diatribe over.
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I got my ratings simply through local schools of my own choosing. Eventually cracked it as an employed pilot and worked for an aerial mapping company before being hired by a regional airline for a few years. With some luck and hard work, I'm now employed by a top 4 major US airline.
Last edited by WheyPCRocks; 18th Feb 2019 at 17:25.
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@Jonkster
Point(s) taken. Thanks for that very detailed answer, much appreciated. Between licences, endorsements and ratings, I changed schools a total of 4 times now and have flown with a good many different blokes, but I have yet to meet the level of commitment and involvement you express. While I mostly agree with you, with all due respect, you don't strike me as the average instructor either. I expect that there will be others like you out there, albeit in a minority. Like I said, finding the right instructor is – unfortunately – a bit of hit-and-miss, mostly miss. In summary, yes, there's definitely a point to pay extra for good value, even on solo navigations.
Point(s) taken. Thanks for that very detailed answer, much appreciated. Between licences, endorsements and ratings, I changed schools a total of 4 times now and have flown with a good many different blokes, but I have yet to meet the level of commitment and involvement you express. While I mostly agree with you, with all due respect, you don't strike me as the average instructor either. I expect that there will be others like you out there, albeit in a minority. Like I said, finding the right instructor is – unfortunately – a bit of hit-and-miss, mostly miss. In summary, yes, there's definitely a point to pay extra for good value, even on solo navigations.
Thanks Jonkster.
I have a rate for supervised solo that reflects that the instructor also gets paid a lower hourly rate for supervision than if they are flying. Sure they might be "double dipping" if they are doing another flight while the student is out solo, but they still have a double responsibility at the time...plus they have to stay at the airport until the student returns.
It would be very unreasonable to expect the instructor to take on that responsibility for "free" and sure, there is not enough fat around to cover the wages if the student is given the aircraft at the hire rate.
A lot of people want things for nothing when they are students and feel they are getting ripped off when in fact what they want to do is rip off the instructor...then want a fair rate when they become instructors.
The rate isn't just their wages, partly as a return on their investment in becoming an instructor; but also the cost to the school of their induction course, drug testing, standardisation check rides, renewals, uniforms, super, compo, etc etc. Now some schools cheat on that with sham contracting, which is disgraceful and no instructor should ever accept that. The other thing is the trend to charge a big chunk for pre flight briefings and only give the instructor a paltry 20% or so of what they charge.
So to agree with Jonkster, the hourly rate is not a guide to the value you will get per dollar. Get a different junior instructor with their heads in the clouds each time and watch the money disappear without you getting value for it.
And never, ever pay up front for flying training. If a school demands that they may be trading insolvent and then you (and your instructor) will be an unsecured creditor if/when the locks get changed.
I have a rate for supervised solo that reflects that the instructor also gets paid a lower hourly rate for supervision than if they are flying. Sure they might be "double dipping" if they are doing another flight while the student is out solo, but they still have a double responsibility at the time...plus they have to stay at the airport until the student returns.
It would be very unreasonable to expect the instructor to take on that responsibility for "free" and sure, there is not enough fat around to cover the wages if the student is given the aircraft at the hire rate.
A lot of people want things for nothing when they are students and feel they are getting ripped off when in fact what they want to do is rip off the instructor...then want a fair rate when they become instructors.
The rate isn't just their wages, partly as a return on their investment in becoming an instructor; but also the cost to the school of their induction course, drug testing, standardisation check rides, renewals, uniforms, super, compo, etc etc. Now some schools cheat on that with sham contracting, which is disgraceful and no instructor should ever accept that. The other thing is the trend to charge a big chunk for pre flight briefings and only give the instructor a paltry 20% or so of what they charge.
So to agree with Jonkster, the hourly rate is not a guide to the value you will get per dollar. Get a different junior instructor with their heads in the clouds each time and watch the money disappear without you getting value for it.
And never, ever pay up front for flying training. If a school demands that they may be trading insolvent and then you (and your instructor) will be an unsecured creditor if/when the locks get changed.
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TAFE aviation course
Hi Everyone,
Thank you for the reply on my previous post.
I am in the processes of finalizing my flight school/training. I have found a few options one is a full time 'Diploma of Aviation' through TAFE, does anyone have any feedback on the course they offer? I have met with them already and they seem a organised professional outfit. It will provide me with CPL and 163 hours including 13 night hours. This is obviously very appealing as the HELP loans are also offered.
Thanks for any help guys
Thank you for the reply on my previous post.
I am in the processes of finalizing my flight school/training. I have found a few options one is a full time 'Diploma of Aviation' through TAFE, does anyone have any feedback on the course they offer? I have met with them already and they seem a organised professional outfit. It will provide me with CPL and 163 hours including 13 night hours. This is obviously very appealing as the HELP loans are also offered.
Thanks for any help guys
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Applying To The Majors
Hi All,
I'm getting to the point in my career that I need to start thinking about applying for the majors! I have a frozen ATPL, approaching 1500hrs total, 400 multi engine turbo prop command along with that. The ultimate dream goal would be to get into Qantas or Virgin. I'm after some advice on what pre-interview prep would be best, study materials, sim, interview preparation companies, etc. And also some thoughts on what to do, as I'm currently bonded for $20k for the next couple of years with my current job, and I am really enjoying the work I'm currently doing. However, I don't want to miss the opportunity at the moment with all this movement about.
I see that Qantas and Jetstar aren't accepting applications at the moment, so that makes that an easy choice, and Virgin 737 NZ applications close on March 31. I don't particularly want to leave my current job at the moment, so if I was successful in an interview and job offer, would I be able to delay a commencement date if given one earlier than I'd ideally like? I'm under the impression that if successful with Virgin, I wouldn't be given a start date at the moment as I don't have my ATPL or an MCC, is this correct? I would still like to remain where I am for a while after obtaining my ATPL.
Are Qantas or Jetstar likely to open up applications any time soon, and if so, would pilots be placed on hold? I've heard rumours that they're both fine at the moment but potentially towards the end of the year things may begin to move again.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated, especially if it gets me thinking from an angle I haven't yet considered. I understand that a lot of my questions may be difficult to answer and what might be correct today, the answer in a months time could be drastically different.
Thanks in advanced!
I'm getting to the point in my career that I need to start thinking about applying for the majors! I have a frozen ATPL, approaching 1500hrs total, 400 multi engine turbo prop command along with that. The ultimate dream goal would be to get into Qantas or Virgin. I'm after some advice on what pre-interview prep would be best, study materials, sim, interview preparation companies, etc. And also some thoughts on what to do, as I'm currently bonded for $20k for the next couple of years with my current job, and I am really enjoying the work I'm currently doing. However, I don't want to miss the opportunity at the moment with all this movement about.
I see that Qantas and Jetstar aren't accepting applications at the moment, so that makes that an easy choice, and Virgin 737 NZ applications close on March 31. I don't particularly want to leave my current job at the moment, so if I was successful in an interview and job offer, would I be able to delay a commencement date if given one earlier than I'd ideally like? I'm under the impression that if successful with Virgin, I wouldn't be given a start date at the moment as I don't have my ATPL or an MCC, is this correct? I would still like to remain where I am for a while after obtaining my ATPL.
Are Qantas or Jetstar likely to open up applications any time soon, and if so, would pilots be placed on hold? I've heard rumours that they're both fine at the moment but potentially towards the end of the year things may begin to move again.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated, especially if it gets me thinking from an angle I haven't yet considered. I understand that a lot of my questions may be difficult to answer and what might be correct today, the answer in a months time could be drastically different.
Thanks in advanced!
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 35
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
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Hi All,
I'm getting to the point in my career that I need to start thinking about applying for the majors! I have a frozen ATPL, approaching 1500hrs total, 400 multi engine turbo prop command along with that. The ultimate dream goal would be to get into Qantas or Virgin. I'm after some advice on what pre-interview prep would be best, study materials, sim, interview preparation companies, etc. And also some thoughts on what to do, as I'm currently bonded for $20k for the next couple of years with my current job, and I am really enjoying the work I'm currently doing. However, I don't want to miss the opportunity at the moment with all this movement about.
I see that Qantas and Jetstar aren't accepting applications at the moment, so that makes that an easy choice, and Virgin 737 NZ applications close on March 31. I don't particularly want to leave my current job at the moment, so if I was successful in an interview and job offer, would I be able to delay a commencement date if given one earlier than I'd ideally like? I'm under the impression that if successful with Virgin, I wouldn't be given a start date at the moment as I don't have my ATPL or an MCC, is this correct? I would still like to remain where I am for a while after obtaining my ATPL.
Are Qantas or Jetstar likely to open up applications any time soon, and if so, would pilots be placed on hold? I've heard rumours that they're both fine at the moment but potentially towards the end of the year things may begin to move again.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated, especially if it gets me thinking from an angle I haven't yet considered. I understand that a lot of my questions may be difficult to answer and what might be correct today, the answer in a months time could be drastically different.
Thanks in advanced!
I'm getting to the point in my career that I need to start thinking about applying for the majors! I have a frozen ATPL, approaching 1500hrs total, 400 multi engine turbo prop command along with that. The ultimate dream goal would be to get into Qantas or Virgin. I'm after some advice on what pre-interview prep would be best, study materials, sim, interview preparation companies, etc. And also some thoughts on what to do, as I'm currently bonded for $20k for the next couple of years with my current job, and I am really enjoying the work I'm currently doing. However, I don't want to miss the opportunity at the moment with all this movement about.
I see that Qantas and Jetstar aren't accepting applications at the moment, so that makes that an easy choice, and Virgin 737 NZ applications close on March 31. I don't particularly want to leave my current job at the moment, so if I was successful in an interview and job offer, would I be able to delay a commencement date if given one earlier than I'd ideally like? I'm under the impression that if successful with Virgin, I wouldn't be given a start date at the moment as I don't have my ATPL or an MCC, is this correct? I would still like to remain where I am for a while after obtaining my ATPL.
Are Qantas or Jetstar likely to open up applications any time soon, and if so, would pilots be placed on hold? I've heard rumours that they're both fine at the moment but potentially towards the end of the year things may begin to move again.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated, especially if it gets me thinking from an angle I haven't yet considered. I understand that a lot of my questions may be difficult to answer and what might be correct today, the answer in a months time could be drastically different.
Thanks in advanced!
Hi Mate. Before others jump in and tell you the reality of "majors" job prospective, i would just say with your current flight time hrs you stand a greater chance to join USA regionals on the E3 visa initiative than getting local jobs. Completion is high and you got the guys/ladies coming from DXB & Asia with "heavy jet time" all wanting the same job you want. So look into the USA regional thing, jet some jet and command time over there and after 5 or so years you maybe in the same level field with the "heavy" guys.