Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

[dr dre]

Hi kbtrina,

Definitely choose flight school over university. You don’t require a degree to hold a professional pilot’s licence. The only degree I’d consider doing is one that has an entrance path with an airline after graduation.

Apply for a cadetship. A lot of them have funding assistance via FEE HELP and you’ll be looked at favourably with your prior airline background.

[B737900er]

Originally Posted by jmg1403

Hi All

Can anyone recommend flying schools in Australia, preferably Sydney/Gold Coast. I have seen a few posts with people having bad experiences but no recommendations.

A bit about me, without trying to sound like i'm writing my profile on a dating website Im originally from Bonnie Scotland currently residing in Sydney. Im 33, work in Construction, and have wanted to be a pilot since my early teens. Realistically i would like to do the training full time- PPL-CPL as far as i am aware is the route, and aim to gain a cpl and look for a job in the RHS around the 36 mark. Giving me around 30 years of a flying career after that. I have read the posts about struggles of the job and training, costs etc but i think f*c* it you only live once and im in the position that my only commitment at the moment is myself and i have a job i can fall back on worst case scenario. Anyway enough negativity. Any help on the route i should take from here with regards to course structure and ratings to put me in the best position possible for employment would be great

Peace out

I got your message, can you
Delete some your inbox messages so I can reply back?

[Sart]

Nzicpa query

I am also thinking to join nzicpa this year. Please can you gogi some revisions about the school?

Originally Posted by Insanity1995

Ive been searching a lot for flight schools in New Zealand and have chosen to go with NZICPA (New Zealand International Commercial Pilot Academy) earlier called as FTM . Does anyone have any views on this school or any other opinions as to which might be better? Any help is appreciated

[nathd54]

Hi all,
I've been looking into the best/fastest way to becoming an airline pilot and wanted to ask a few questions about cadetships vs traditional flight school. I know they are both covered but the cadetships look to be around $50 000~ more than flight schools. How long would it be before i get my first airline job after flight school. I'm open to moving overseas for an airline job. Is it worth the extra money for the guaranteed job. Just want to know the best way really.

Also how hard is it to get into a cadetship. Are there any numbers on the acceptance rates. ATAR / mark requirements?

Thanks in advance

[RHSandLovingIt]

Originally Posted by nathd54

Hi all,
I've been looking into the best/fastest way to becoming an airline pilot

Those two things are not necessarily the same

How long would it be before i get my first airline job after flight school.

How long is a piece of string? No-one will be able to give you a definitive answer for this... for some people, it'll be days to their first job... for some people, it'll be years. For an "airline" job specifically, most likely measured in years... as your chances of landing a job with an airline on a fresh CPL is close to zero unless you were in one of these cadetships. Most airlines will require several hundreds of hours more experience than a fresh CPL will have.

I'm open to moving overseas for an airline job.

Unless you have the legal right to live and work in another country, getting jobs overseas can be very problematic. Most companies will file "visa sponsorship" into the "too hard" basket. So, unless you're willing to go somewhere like Susi in Indonesia or maybe Botswana where they have a lot of flying, but a real dearth of "local" pilots... your chances of finding any flying job, let alone an "airline" one, overseas will be somewhat slim.

Is it worth the extra money for the guaranteed job. Just want to know the best way really.

IMHO, that depends a lot on what you want from aviation. If you just want to fly for an airline and don't want to experience the "fun and adventure" that is GA, then sure... Just remember, if you're going to need FEE-HELP, you will also need to factor in the 25% loan fee to work out how much the true costs are.

Also how hard is it to get into a cadetship. Are there any numbers on the acceptance rates. ATAR / mark requirements?

Each cadetship generally has their own minimum requirements. For instance, you can see the Jetstar ones here:

• Australian citizen or permanent resident
• Aged over 18 years on commencement of training
• Capable of holding a CASA Class 1 Medical Certificate
• Capable of holding an Aviation Security Identification Card (ASIC)
• Completed Victorian Certificate of Education (VCE) or equivalent
• VCE Units 3 & 4 - a study score of at least 20 in English (any) and Further Mathematics or equivalent
• Successful completion of CAE’s Skills Assessment

Most, if not all, of the selection processes for the various cadetships will then involve interviews, sim ride and other aptitude tests to try to assess an applicants suitability. The results of these assessments is generally more of a deciding factor than your academic performance at school. As long as you meet the minimum requirements to apply, they'll probably give you a shot at the assessment. I've even heard that some of them make you pay for the assessment:

Originally Posted by http://www.cae.com/civil-aviation/aviation-professionals/become-a-pilot/our-pilot-training-programmes/jetstar-cadet-pilot-program/

Please note: An assessment fee of approximately $150 will apply.

As for acceptance rates... The answer is definitely low... By their own admission, the cadetships get a high volume of applications and they have limited spaces.


At the end of the day, if you sole goal is "Airlines"... then applying for cadetships probably won't hurt (except for the assessment fees) and at the very least you'll get some interview experience. The extra upfront costs will probably be recouped assuming you get that "guaranteed" job. Additionally, if you aren't successful with getting a cadetship spot, you can then try the "old-fashioned" way and complete your flight training at the flight school of your choice and work your way up to an airline gig through GA.

[tiger037]

Advice for aspiring pilot of Melbourne

Afternoon all.

Being completely new to the aviation scene, I was just looking for some advice, and also the thoughts of current professional pilots in regards to going into the field of commercial aviation.

With piloting being a dream of mine since I was young, I recently applied, and received an offer for the Bachelor of Aviation at Swinburne University of Technology.
However, all in all, it will be north of $100k to complete the course, although it offers a chance at Qantas Future Pilot Program.
This degree is attractive, as I am able to put most of it under HECS Fee-help instead of paying for flight training upfront.

A $100k degree is no joke, hence I am trying to get some more information when making a decision like this.

How useful is a degree (Bachelor of Applied Science - Piloting) if you are looking for a job after graduation at one of the major airlines?
What advice can you give me as a professional pilot?
What other pathways are available that give a more "employable" resume at the end of the day?
Is the amount of flight hours always more attractive?

Any help would be appreciated.

[spondonicle]

GU allows students to access HECS to cover undergraduate course tuition (most courses have this option). As GU run their flight training component through a postgrauduate course, students use FEE-HELP to cover most of the cost associated with that (CPL+MEIR+ATPL subjects). Thus, VET Student Loans, and their 20% loading, is avoided.

[Chopz]

Am I too old/big for a pilot career?

Hi all,

I am 34 years old, married with three kids. Recently I applied for a position with Airservices Australia as an ATC trainee and was unsuccessful, it seems that my 49% spatial vision did not get me across the line. Anyway, moral of the story is that I was devastated. Always wanted to be a pilot but never pursued it as quite frankly I did not have the money. Recently I found out that there is now the possibility of getting student loans to fund a decent portion of the training, I would love to do it but it is obviously a big leap and I was hoping some of you guys/gals can help me out.

My questions are:

1. Is 34 too old to consider flight training? I would love to one day be a long haul pilot, is it realistic? I have heard that due to this pilot shortage that new pilots have been recruited in their 40’s, is this actually true?

2. In the last 10 years I have fluctuated between 105kg - 130kg, desk jobs have not been kind. Currently I am sitting on 120kg. I know Soar Aviation state their planes have a 110kg weight limit for their introductory flights, what is the deal with other flight schools? I am about 6’2 so generally I carry weight well and don’t look huge but obviously it could be an issue.

I would really appreciate your your thoughts on this, please be honest, if it is something that can only be a dream than I would rather know that now.

Looking forward to your responses.

[popo_von_kox]

First things first - go and get your 1st class medical. If you fail it then your problems are all solved.

So called "pilot shortage" is not about 200h FOs. It is all about experienced capitans. There is no shortage of fATPL pilots. Expect fierce competition.

While not necessarily a show-stopper your weight may affect available selection of training equipment and instructors. If you decide to go Dutch and learn to fly in c152, then with full tanks you have about 50kgs left for an instructor.

[evansb]

If successful, you'll have at least 2 decades of flying ahead of you. Prospective professional pilots generally move to where the flying jobs are, so family considerations could be problematic. Learn to fly in a Piper Warrior.

[Brakerider]

As terrible as this sounds, depending on the line of work you move into, you may be considered too big.

130kg Pilot in a small plane leaves a lot less payload available than a 60-70kg 18 year old competing for the same jobs. Thats potentially 1 more passenger on a scenic/charter flight that you won't be able to carry. Unfortunately, this does happen in GA.

[machtuk]

There would be a lot of guys out there who would love to be a pilot at a more advanced age, the desire to be so needs to be high due to the tough road to get there. Your weight doesn't have to be an issue if you don't want it to be, do yourself and yr family a fav, get fitter that way everybody wins - as mentioned go and do the Class 1 Medical, everything revolves around that and being overweight means you run a higher risk of not obtaining it or losing it in the future, that's something you do have control over.
Cost is everything (other than health), big dollars these days so make sure that can be managed. Location is another stumbling block if you have young family, it's the one thing that has held back many potential pilots futures, be prepared to move, can you move, perhaps the whole family?
At the end of the day in today's current climate it's doable BUT always have a backup plan, the smartest thing you can do for your family is have an out, another way to remain financial, remember we live in a forever changing world and Aviation is one industry that is very venerable to world events especially as there are years of timeframe involved here.
Good luck, hope you find where you belong in aviation -

[kingRB]

As terrible as this sounds, depending on the line of work you move into, you may be considered too big.

maybe at a few jobs but overall its not a showstopper. I know of quite a few big units in this height / weight range that got through GA and into airlines fine. If you can get a Class 1 ok then it's what you make of chasing the job that counts.

[pill]

The problems with loans is, at some stage you will have to pay them back. Your family will resent you for basically keeping them poor for the next 10 years whilst you get to jolly around wearing a pair of Ray Ban Aviators.
The path you look to choose is littered with broken dreams and families.
Maybe set yourself a task of getting your weight down to 95kgs. Learn to paraglide, this might also get you thinking of some of the dangers involved in aviation. If you can achieve the weight loss (its a goal thing, got nothing to do with retaining a pilots medical with your current BMI) then look to use your own money to at least go solo (private licence would be better), then revisit the loan idea. You will have a little insight into the industry and how the wife and kids feel about the financial drain.
Today I'll be taking a wide body Airbus to Seoul with a guy beside me who's kind of obligated to find my jokes funny (they are not). I hope you get to do the same some day, but the odds are against you.

[engine out]

You are not too old, nor too large but some of the above points are very good. Let’s not sugar coat this it’s not an easy path. Firstly how much research have you done into a career in flying, hopefully a lot, if not here are some points to consider.

Taking a loan to learn means you will pay a lot more to learn to fly. A debt that you will then need to pay back. Initially you will need to gain experience in GA (unless doing an airline Cadetship) which at entry level will pay between $20000-$40000. Can you and your young family live on that whilst possibly relocating. “My wife works” I hear people say, great but how flexible is that job around your constantly rotating hours and children’s schooling? Most airlines need minimum of 500 hours but realistically need 1500-2000 hours in a competitive market (which it still is), how do you plan to get these? What will the industry look like when you do? What is plan B if you’ve spent this money and don’t get an airline job?

Are you you and your family prepared for what it will do to your family life? Will your family resent all the time you may be away, birthdays missed, Christmas missed. If you go the long haul route wil they be happy whilst your away for 7-10 days having drinks and exploring the world whilst they are at home?

Getting a class 1 Medical is the first step. CASA will need all the usual tests, but if you’re a bigger person with a high BMI you may also need to do a sleep study to look for sleep apnea (CASA is very fond of this at the moment).

It is worth looking at all the angles and outcomes, go speak to many flying schools big and small, don’t just accept the shiny brochures with pictures of jets that some schools show you. Ask questions, lots of them! It can be a great a rewarding career, but many stumble along the way, go in with your eyes wide open.

[Happy89]

First post / question

Hi Guys,

Firstly thank you for the amazing information on here I have found it very informative! I like many on here are looking at becoming a pilot with the end goal Of mainline.

I am 30 yrs old with a partner and no kids, I have the ability to self fund my CPL over 18-24 month. As I understand this is the first step, can I get some members to please share what they have done from this stage to 1. Start getting paid for flying - what other qualifications do you need? 2. Any background work I can do (other than getting my CPL) considering learning Cantonese to help have a wider range of prospects... or anything that can make you more attractive to future employers

Please note myself and my partner are happy to move and adapt to this lifestyle/career change. Our only concern is income in 3-4 years time if we decided to have kids. Any help with this large amount of rambling would be amazing!

[Cessna 180]

Originally Posted by Chopz

Hi all,

I am 34 years old, married with three kids. Recently I applied for a position with Airservices Australia as an ATC trainee and was unsuccessful, it seems that my 49% spatial vision did not get me across the line. Anyway, moral of the story is that I was devastated. Always wanted to be a pilot but never pursued it as quite frankly I did not have the money. Recently I found out that there is now the possibility of getting student loans to fund a decent portion of the training, I would love to do it but it is obviously a big leap and I was hoping some of you guys/gals can help me out.

My questions are:

1. Is 34 too old to consider flight training? I would love to one day be a long haul pilot, is it realistic? I have heard that due to this pilot shortage that new pilots have been recruited in their 40’s, is this actually true?

2. In the last 10 years I have fluctuated between 105kg - 130kg, desk jobs have not been kind. Currently I am sitting on 120kg. I know Soar Aviation state their planes have a 110kg weight limit for their introductory flights, what is the deal with other flight schools? I am about 6’2 so generally I carry weight well and don’t look huge but obviously it could be an issue.

I would really appreciate your your thoughts on this, please be honest, if it is something that can only be a dream than I would rather know that now.

Looking forward to your responses.

I doubt you will have any issues with your class 1. Just look at the coffee shops at some of the major airports....

However, whilst I don't necessarily agree with it, I know a few operators who will not hire any one over 100 kegs for thier single engine piston fleet. If you happen to walk in the door and are sub 70 and have a licence you may get hired on the spot!

All this is purely down to payload available. Think a C210 with 260l is ~400kg 's available with an average pilot, a lighter person makes a big difference.

Is it right? Is it ethical? Who knows. But this can be the reality.

[RHSandLovingIt]

Originally Posted by Happy89

I am 30 yrs old with a partner and no kids, I have the ability to self fund my CPL over 18-24 month. As I understand this is the first step, can I get some members to please share what they have done from this stage to 1. Start getting paid for flying - what other qualifications do you need? 2. Any background work I can do (other than getting my CPL) considering learning Cantonese to help have a wider range of prospects... or anything that can make you more attractive to future employers

I did something similar... but that started 9-10 years ago, and I already had the PPL, and was part way through my CPL (all self-funded). I also had an IT degree and ~10 years of experience as backup in case it didn't work out...

After getting my CPL I was fortunate enough to be "right place, right time" to get a gig doing aerial photography which got me another 600hrs on top of the CPL... then after finishing the MEIR and trying unsuccessfully to break into the air transport side of the GA sector, I went to Indonesia and spent 2 years at Susi Air... much to the dismay of my partner. That ended up as basically a (very costly) self-funded "Fly In - Fly Out" exercise.

In the end, that added another 1000 hours to the log book... Spent another couple of years trying to find flying work back in NZ (while working outside of Aviation, but in a job that paid well enough to pay for private flying)... Then, snared a Regional Twin Turboprop gig in mid-2018 during the present recruitment surge.

I won't lie. It was a long and hard road to get from bare CPL to Airline... It involved a mix of luck and hard work/sacrifice... and due to financial and relationship pressures, I seriously considered giving up the commercial aviation dream on several occasions... but stuck with it because I was too stubborn (too stupid? too selfish?) to quit. So, at great expense I kept the license and ratings current "just in case"... and eventually got the interview.

I'm also incredibly lucky that I have a VERY understanding and supportive partner... without a doubt, she has made a number of personal sacrifices for me to able to get to where I am. I'm honestly not sure I'll ever be able to make it up to her "properly"... but apparently business class upgrades that won't bankrupt us will help!

To answer your specific questions:

1. Technically, the only "quals" you need to get paid are a CPL. That is the easy part, finding the "first job" is the hard part. It will more than likely involve a lot of phone calls and door knocking etc.
2. One thing you can try is to browse through the jobs on AFAP and see what sort of "Desirable Qualifications" are being listed.

Also, I'd advise to stay "responsibility free" (ie. No kids) as long as you can... from what I've been told by others, trying to cover the costs of raising a family on GA pay, while trying to stay flexible with location/living arrangements is very difficult.

[fly_inverted]

Just on the RPL vs PPL, key differences i saw are:
- RPL you can fly an aircraft up to 1500kg vs PPL you can fly up to 5000kg
- RPL is Australia only vs PPL is International recognised licence
- RPL 'theory' knowledge requirement is not as intense as PPL 'theory' (more a direct stepping stone to CPL)
- RPL at $7K, i would be cautious with that figure, my RPL (no Nav) took 40 hours and costs ala $12K.

[demid]

Originally Posted by ChaeBaee

My understanding is that with an RPL you're allowed to carry "more than one passenger if you have a casa class 1 or 2 cert" as quoted however with a PPl you're capped at a max of 5? How does that work?

Utilising your PPL privileges you can hire and fly a Boeing 747 full of friends of yours on a private flight (provided you have a type rating). However you can share the cost of your flight with passengers when there's up to 6 people on board only. if there's more than 6 POB - it's all at your own expense.

Originally Posted by ChaeBaee

With RPL there is an endorsement for operating a flight radio however to my understanding isn't using a flight radio part of training; talking to the tower requesting take off etc.

Radio endorsement is part of PPL syllabus.

Originally Posted by ChaeBaee

With the 25nm restriction for RPL, it includes rottness island which has an airport. Certain forums have said that if I get a PPl im allowed to land at airports other than the one i depart from, is this not the same for RPL? (Wanting to fly to rottness island and come back)

RPL+Nav endorsement gives you similar access to most Australian airports/strips as PPL does. You may need Radio+controlled airspace/aerodrome endorsements for you RPL if fly to class C/D/E airspace and/or aerodromes. The difference is maximum take-off weight as ChaeBaee said.
Just to clarify: even if an airport is within 25NM of you departure or within a defined training area - you can't land there unless you have a Nav endorsement on your RPL.