Petition | Remove ASIC cards entirely
Thread Starter
Petition | Remove ASIC cards entirely
Having a look-see at the other Oz aviation forum i came across this -
http://www.change.org/petitions/aust...entirely#share
Over 500 signatures to date..
Thats a fair percentage of Oz pilots.
.
http://www.change.org/petitions/aust...entirely#share
Over 500 signatures to date..
Thats a fair percentage of Oz pilots..
Unfortunately ALL pilots in OZ represent a very SMALL percentage of the Public and boyo do they feel safe knowing all us pilots (and every pimple faced kid at maccas at the airport) have a security clearance.
I'm a member of Change.org & they do a good job trying to get change where change is warranted but this campaign I believe would never work. The change is effectively aimed at Sport pilots, GA level so for a start it won't have the backing of everyone.
Security is a whole industry now it's huge with way over the top regs etc so getting a major change like this is near impossible sad to say as I personally believe we are just puppets in the governing bodies sick game of keeping us all "safe", a lose term made up to suit the game.
Still I applaud those behind it for trying & at least getting the subject broadened out there with the gen public because they really live in a fantasy world even if it is somewhat futile.
Wmk2
Security is a whole industry now it's huge with way over the top regs etc so getting a major change like this is near impossible sad to say as I personally believe we are just puppets in the governing bodies sick game of keeping us all "safe", a lose term made up to suit the game.
Still I applaud those behind it for trying & at least getting the subject broadened out there with the gen public because they really live in a fantasy world even if it is somewhat futile.
Wmk2
keep them at all cost!!
He lost me when he kept calling it an ASIC card, I suppose he also refers to ATM machines, PIN numbers etc. 
Seriously though, I agree that there is room for improvement under the current aviation security regime but I think our petitioner will have to come up with something better than an off the hand sweeping statement before those that matter will take notice. The fact that they are a "costly annoyance" won't exactly have the regulator running to have the legislation changed.
Why do people waste their time with online petitions? There are far more effective ways of working to achieve the outcome you want. But it does take some effort and unfortunately cost in terms of travel etc. Spending 30 seconds on a keyboard to get an online petition going to my mind is just pure laziness and fails to convince anyone that they are genuinley concerned or take their own comments seriously.
If, as Wally Mk2 says, the petition is aimed at the GA sports aviation level, where is their presence at the numerous open invitation government forums that discuss these very matters? The MUA have very strong views on MSICs and they regularly attend the consultative meetings to make sure the interest of their members are taken into consideration with any proposed changes. I'd suggest GA get with the program and adopt a similar approach.
Seriously though, I agree that there is room for improvement under the current aviation security regime but I think our petitioner will have to come up with something better than an off the hand sweeping statement before those that matter will take notice. The fact that they are a "costly annoyance" won't exactly have the regulator running to have the legislation changed.
Why do people waste their time with online petitions? There are far more effective ways of working to achieve the outcome you want. But it does take some effort and unfortunately cost in terms of travel etc. Spending 30 seconds on a keyboard to get an online petition going to my mind is just pure laziness and fails to convince anyone that they are genuinley concerned or take their own comments seriously.
If, as Wally Mk2 says, the petition is aimed at the GA sports aviation level, where is their presence at the numerous open invitation government forums that discuss these very matters? The MUA have very strong views on MSICs and they regularly attend the consultative meetings to make sure the interest of their members are taken into consideration with any proposed changes. I'd suggest GA get with the program and adopt a similar approach.
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At least change it so we dont have to pay a rediculous amount of money for them, I'm all for having a way of determining if somebody belongs airside or not, but $180 or what ever it is these days is stupidity!
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At least change it so we dont have to pay a rediculous amount of money for them, I'm all for having a way of determining if somebody belongs airside or not, but $180 or what ever it is these days is stupidity!
Last edited by Captahab; 19th Jun 2013 at 07:55.
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To be honest, if the processing of us ASIC holders (see YPJT) is for the greater good of the WHOLE community, then the whole community should pay.
In simple terms they should be free to anyone who can justify needing one.
Now that would be an improvement.
USER PAYS.........well not all the users are paying, just the holder!
Can someone push that through?
In simple terms they should be free to anyone who can justify needing one.
Now that would be an improvement.
USER PAYS.........well not all the users are paying, just the holder!
Can someone push that through?
Jabs, that ain't going to work either.
How about this asa proposition:
1/. ASIC cards needed at Capital city and Military/civil joint user airfields; This will exempt the vast majority of private pilots and RAAus pi... flyer... whatever they do
2/. ASIC card holders get express-lane treatment at Airports.. they've been security checked, haven't they??? Even better, most working pilots will need an ASIC so WE get the coffee discounts and the PPLs and RAAus ...er, people, don't.
3/. New Licence applicants, licence upgrades and foreign licence conversions get security-checked as they pass "go" and are then put on a PRISM-style automated "watch list" that will flag them when they do whatever it is that will get them flagged. Otherwise, the Nanny-state BACKS OFF and starts using technology to make our lives easier, safer & more productive, not more expensive and obstructed
How about this asa proposition:
1/. ASIC cards needed at Capital city and Military/civil joint user airfields; This will exempt the vast majority of private pilots and RAAus pi... flyer... whatever they do
2/. ASIC card holders get express-lane treatment at Airports.. they've been security checked, haven't they??? Even better, most working pilots will need an ASIC so WE get the coffee discounts and the PPLs and RAAus ...er, people, don't.
3/. New Licence applicants, licence upgrades and foreign licence conversions get security-checked as they pass "go" and are then put on a PRISM-style automated "watch list" that will flag them when they do whatever it is that will get them flagged. Otherwise, the Nanny-state BACKS OFF and starts using technology to make our lives easier, safer & more productive, not more expensive and obstructed
Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 19th Jun 2013 at 09:00.
...and every 2-bit charter operator and flying school and aeroclub then has to have some sort of approved security check scheme with appropriate security around the details of the scheme and DOTARS audits and training and responsible persons and annual reporting and Strict Liability and headlines like "Country Flying School trains terrorists without security checks. Flying instructor arrested".
Screw that.
The majority of them are flat out keeping their AOC, and that's something they're actually qualified to do, without handing them National Security on a self-serve platter.
Keep it central and Govt-controlled, just dial it back to "sensible" and "risk-related".
Screw that.
The majority of them are flat out keeping their AOC, and that's something they're actually qualified to do, without handing them National Security on a self-serve platter.
Keep it central and Govt-controlled, just dial it back to "sensible" and "risk-related".
Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 19th Jun 2013 at 09:27.
Yeah - I know tis but an 'overkill' / rort - and I don't even get the 'staff priced coffee'....Wot Coffee..??
Bye Bye $180.....again and again.....
Name / Rank / Serial No.......Same as last time thanks......
Bah Humbug!!!
Bye Bye $180.....again and again.....
Name / Rank / Serial No.......Same as last time thanks......
Bah Humbug!!!
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 19th Jun 2013 at 09:55.
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To many people, making to much money, for much to change. The security industry makes more money than any part of the industry that is productive so they have far more money with which to bribe....er sorry, "lobby" them who make determinations.
Last edited by thorn bird; 19th Jun 2013 at 10:01.
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YPJT you are correct that petition reads pretty poorly. To make a change like canning ASICs you need to show they are ineffective, not just complain about inconvenience.
Although they are a pain in the arse
On the plus side no feds have jumped out of the bushes and arrested me when I've walked onto a field without mine showing
Although they are a pain in the arse
On the plus side no feds have jumped out of the bushes and arrested me when I've walked onto a field without mine showing
Some good discussion on this here. Remember all an ASIC does is provide evidence that the wearer has undergone a security background check and may be allowed unescorted access at a security controlled airport.
Kabukiman, the costs are basically three elements. Background check by AUSCHECK which on its own is about $100, admin charge to process by the issuing body and the cost of producing the card. The card with photo is relatively inexpensive and simple but the equipment to put the foil kinegram strip is about a $35,000 investment. The attorney general's office has to provide very detailed substantiation of their charging regime if they are going to increase the cost of the background check. A few years back they actually lowered the cost but that certainly wasn't passed on by issuing bodies.
You don't actually lose a month in fact if you time it right you can gain nearly a month. They used to expire on the last day of the previous month but after a reg change a couple of years back, they now expire on the last day of the month that the clearance was issued.
Horatio, agree 100% with keeping it sensible and risk based. Why not collectively put together some well reasoned argument that demonstrates no reduction in the security outcome. That is the only chance of getting some change through.
Kabukiman, the costs are basically three elements. Background check by AUSCHECK which on its own is about $100, admin charge to process by the issuing body and the cost of producing the card. The card with photo is relatively inexpensive and simple but the equipment to put the foil kinegram strip is about a $35,000 investment. The attorney general's office has to provide very detailed substantiation of their charging regime if they are going to increase the cost of the background check. A few years back they actually lowered the cost but that certainly wasn't passed on by issuing bodies.
You don't actually lose a month in fact if you time it right you can gain nearly a month. They used to expire on the last day of the previous month but after a reg change a couple of years back, they now expire on the last day of the month that the clearance was issued.
Horatio, agree 100% with keeping it sensible and risk based. Why not collectively put together some well reasoned argument that demonstrates no reduction in the security outcome. That is the only chance of getting some change through.
Why not collectively put together some well reasoned argument that demonstrates no reduction in the security outcome.
However I concede the effect on the perceived security outcome - can we call it the illusory security outcome? - would be enormous.
Fair enough for a background check for the initial issue, but renewals should be automatic, simple production of the current ASIC and a fresh photo to get a new one.
And use PRISM to flag any Evil-Doers.
And use PRISM to flag any Evil-Doers.