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MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

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MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

Old 28th Jun 2013, 06:37
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Bueller, Bueller. Anyone?
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Old 29th Jun 2013, 05:23
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It is not written in a 2008 document because the cadet program did not start until 2010.

But clearly it would be written down somewhere, just call S Lutton from the AFAP if you want it in writing - they did the deal with the Airline.

By saying one cadet means one less direct entry pilot , really just stating a fact not gloating, always difficult to determine tone from the written. Like most pax I just want well trained people in cockpit don't care what background.

The reality I think is that the prospects for GA/Regional to progress to jet RPT in Australia must be remote. How many DE pilots have Virgin / Jetstar hired over past 18 months ? - I would think very few. Cobhams and the other Jet FIFOs really the only possiblities - maybe taken 50 to 80 over past 18 months.

Not a lot when you consider the number of experienced turboprop pilots in Aust/NZ
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Old 29th Jun 2013, 06:14
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.By saying one cadet means one less direct entry pilot , really just stating a fact not gloating, always difficult to determine tone from the written. Like most pax I just want well trained people in cockpit don't care what background.
Just talking to some of my pilot friends who are working at jetstar while on lwop from qantas, the cadets are struggling to make the appropriate standards. If there is a need to allocate cadets extra simulator time and you here the story of the cadet that raised the flaps when doing a go around and the cadet selecting the wrong flap setting on approach you would think surely a pilot that has previously been flying a turbo prop for a regional airline wouldn't make such silly mistakes and require extra simulator sessions.

But if cadets pilots are meeting the minimum safety standards, why aren't they being paid at the same rate as there direct entry colleagues? Because $30k difference in salary is a huge difference.
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Old 29th Jun 2013, 07:10
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All the various conspiracy theories about Jetstar making money are simply incorrect. In fact the program costs the company money as they get more line training, mentored program over 18 months, and have to be based in Syd/Mel/Brisbane where the training resources are. Also more sims , line checks in that 18 month mentored period.

So I think a lot of people might think well the company has all these extra training costs etc, likely insurance costs, so for the first two years a junior FO wage is appropriate. Junior FO rates isn't a new idea, even Virgin do it.

Keep in mind the training course is 18 months, half the length of the shortest Uni degree(average start salary $55k) So I think many people would think that a 17 year old year 12 leaver who does an 18 month training course , 50% shorter than his Uni destined cohorts then gets paid 30% more than them - well it really doesn't look so bad.

Interesting the different stories - I have heard to date all have successfully checked to line. New idea so it will take a while to fine tune it.

Let's face it the GA/Regional background pilots at Tiger didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with their airmanship and flying standards

Qantas cadets - hard to see how they cost the company any extra $$.

Last edited by Flyboat North; 29th Jun 2013 at 07:13.
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Old 29th Jun 2013, 08:07
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Let's face it the GA/Regional background pilots at Tiger didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with their airmanship and flying standards
Really? Sure about that? Please do back all of that up with facts. Otherwise, I'd suggest retracting that comment.

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Old 29th Jun 2013, 11:42
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It is not written in a 2008 document because the cadet program did not start until 2010.
So, unless there is a new EBA or they are on special contracts, they are classed as junior FOs and paid accordingly until an ATPL is gained.

But clearly it would be written down somewhere
Nah, that's good enough for me. Where can I sign?
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Old 29th Jun 2013, 13:31
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Fly boat norths posts are the best on this thread so far. It's great to see an Australian company investing in this country's youth Knowing that it actually costs Jetstar money to train these cadets yet they persist. Thank you Jetstar you've restored my faith in the Australian aviation industry. You could employ pilots that have built command experience in some pretty variable weather conditions etc, but as a company that embodies values, ethics, morals and just plain old honesty I value your judgement. Thankyou for sacrificing profits for our safety & well being

Last edited by Jack Ranga; 29th Jun 2013 at 13:32.
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 04:54
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I am not interested in a long debate about the junior FO rates , but the fact is that the cadets are only on them for a maximum of two years. That can be confirmed by your own pilot union or the company itself or the cadets themselves. Some who joined the advanced program already had 600 hours or so, and so were able to gain an ATPL in less than two years - so moved off the junior FO onto the standard pay scales immediately.

Jack a nice post but I am thinking maybe a little tongue in cheek perhaps. I think clearly there would be some very proud parents who agree with all your words. They would be very proud of their Sons/Daughters who have just turned 20 and are checked to line as Jetstar A320 FOs , knowing also that without the funding mechanisms arranged by the company it could not have been done.
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 05:43
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Flyboat North

I had a chat to a pilot who is very high up at aipa at work this morning. It is true that a Junior First Officer goes from junior fo to level 2 fo. But he wasn't aware of the maximum of 2 years as a junior fo... Could you copy and paste the reference to that source? Because we did flick through the current eBa and couldn't see anything about being a junior fo for 2 years max. It just said that you are a junior fo until you hold a complete atpl. He is going to get back to me on it though as he just departed on a long haul flight earlier today.

Last edited by pull-up-terrain; 30th Jun 2013 at 05:44.
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 05:55
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It was AFAP industrial officer Simon Lutton who did the deal with Jetstar , he has been at AFAP for a long time and can be contacted on 03 9928 5737. AFAP will also confirm that the company loan for training - that repayments do not begin until the third year - by which stage cadets have progressed to standard FO rates.

The other option is is just to call/write the company ask to speak to pilot recruitment and they will confirm it for you. It is very much publicly available information and told to the cadets at information nights etc.


Ph 61 3 8628 3418 Fax: 61 3 8660 2865
Pilot Recruitment
Level 4, 222 Bourke Street/ Melbourne / 3000
[email protected]
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 06:10
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I take it fly boat north you are some sort of salesman or have something to do with working for Oxford aviation?

I'm going to try and contact Simon tomorrow, but are you not confusing that flexi contract with the eBa?
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 07:31
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Flying Boat North

Can you remind us why there is a need for the cadet schemes?
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 10:19
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Originally Posted by Flyboat North
It was AFAP industrial officer Simon Lutton who did the deal with Jetstar , he has been at AFAP for a long time and can be contacted on 03 9928 5737. AFAP will also confirm that the company loan for training - that repayments do not begin until the third year - by which stage cadets have progressed to standard FO rates.

The other option is is just to call/write the company ask to speak to pilot recruitment and they will confirm it for you. It is very much publicly available information and told to the cadets at information nights etc.


Ph 61 3 8628 3418 Fax: 61 3 8660 2865
Pilot Recruitment
Level 4, 222 Bourke Street/ Melbourne / 3000
[email protected]
Perhaps when you call Simon he could provide you with an explanation of the following which he failed to consider when he was cosying up with Jetstar Management and they conned him into dropping the federal court action on Group contracts being run by the AFAP.

1. Full time Award Salary in 2011 for Narrow Body with additions to salary for turbojet and instrument rating $87,000

2. EBA salary for junior first officer under pre-2011 EBA $57,118 (based on full credit hours which is incidentally is pro rated under Flexi-line)

3. Fair work transitional provisions state that:

224 Fair Work (Transitional Provisions and Consequential Amendments) Act 2009

Part 4—Universal application of minimum wages to employees: transitional instruments

13 Base rate of pay under agreement-based transitional instrument must not be less than the modern award rate or the national minimum wage order rate etc.

If employee is covered by a modern award that is in operation

(1) If, on or after the FW (safety net provisions) commencement day:

(a) an agreement-based transitional instrument applies to an employee; and

(b) a modern award that is in operation covers the employee;

the base rate of pay payable to the employee under the transitional instrument (the instrument rate) must not be less than the base rate of pay that would be payable to the employee under the modern award (the award rate) if the modern award applied to the employee.

(2) If the instrument rate is less than the award rate, the transitional instrument has effect in relation to the employee as if the instrument rate were equal to the award rate.
Even though Jetstar has an EBA, because it was in existence before the FWA it becomes a transitional instrument and the pay cannot be less than would be due under the award. The Award does not recognise Junior First Officers.

A cadet would be paid $87,000 under the award and their payment under the EBA should be no less.

Ask Simon to explain that one!!!

More to Follow

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Last edited by The Kelpie; 30th Jun 2013 at 10:36.
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Old 12th Jul 2013, 00:22
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Once a cadet completes the an-initio course thus expending their entire FEEHELP they must do the Advanced element also which costs another $85k. Jet star finance this over six years but it is written in the bond agreement that Jetstar can increase this amount in its sole discretion.

So.....on a flexiline wage of approx $56k per annum you not only have to pay your 110k VETFEE debt off but you also have to pay $14k back to Jetstar each year.

$56k minus VETFEE repayments minus Jetstar repayments equals NOT MUCH LEFT!!!
Here's what I know.

The FEE-HELP loan limit is around $93k, it fluctuates yearly, but has never been $110k for this, so I don't know where that figure comes from. The advanced element is known as phase 2, where you will undertake an A320 type rating. The amount is between $30k-$40k fully funded by Jetstar which is paid back to them via a salary sacrifice. So again, I don't know where your figure of an additional $85k comes from.

From what I know, yes unfortunately you can expect to wait an unknown amount of time between phase 1 and phase 2. However there is not a huge backlog like some people have been stating here.

You seem to think you know a lot about the topic, I'm just referring to what those at JetStar and CAE Oxford have told me. Perhaps you could link me to where you got this info from?

Last edited by FLGOFF; 12th Jul 2013 at 01:24.
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Old 11th Sep 2013, 09:22
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Future program

Hi guys,

Does anyone know whether or not JQ will be running another cadet intake? i.e. March 2014.

Rumour has it they are considering cancelling the program due to the poor performance of some of the current cadets.

Any help would be great!

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Old 11th Sep 2013, 10:43
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.Does anyone know whether or not JQ will be running another cadet intake? i.e. March 2014.

Rumour has it they are considering cancelling the program due to the poor performance of some of the current cadets.
I don't know anything about this rumour, but if they were to stop the cadetship, it is probably because they have too many Qantas pilots on LWOP flying for jetstar that are taking up a lot of the jobs jetstar were intending to be filled by cadets.
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Old 11th Sep 2013, 12:40
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I've heard this rumour wing boy, and that another flying organisation will get the gig if standards aren't picked up. Why can't jetstar see this as a sign and scrap it all together!!
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Old 11th Sep 2013, 13:59
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Speaking to some of the Jetstar cadets it appears the biggest problem is that OAA has become too big and disorganised. I also guess all of the ownership changes going from GFS to OAA to CAE in a few years wouldn't help.

Apparently the Jetstar cadets needed to be very motivated and organised to get the training resources they needed to complete the course. Some of the cadets would book half a dozen flights at a time a month in advance to ensure they could get planes and instructors.

Another problem appears to be they don't allocate set instructors to students, which makes the training a bit fragmented.
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Old 11th Sep 2013, 17:02
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Stop posting peter. Thanks in advance.
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Old 12th Sep 2013, 04:39
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My post is based on experience and known facts.

If you have a problem with that, then too bad.
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