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MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

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MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

Old 9th Jun 2013, 01:32
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 955
Royal Victorian Aero Club = the only honest VETFEE approved training providers in the room!!!

All by the book!
Kelpie, they put the price of their MECIR up by quite a bit when they got fee-help, surely it can't all be to cover the extra admin cost can it?

Peter,

I have said this before to you, some of the guys got a dream run through OAA, straight to England, pushed through line training and thanks to the union work on a ok contract. There are others who were one the same course who are over a year behind due to a backlog in the type rating and line training. There are also a number of guys who got booted from the course at OAA and while their motivation was a factor, very little was done to support them.

It can work but it's a gamble just like GA. There are great stories and terrible ones from both, GA costs a lot less and gives you some amazing life experience that the guys plugged straight into jets on the east coast don't get.
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Old 9th Jun 2013, 02:20
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 767

Kelpie, they put the price of their MECIR up by quite a bit when they got fee-help, surely it can't all be to cover the extra admin cost can it?
Nothing in the law, rules or guidelines to stop that and to be honest the government have openly said they are not interested as this will be self regulated by competition between training providers. So, whilst unfavourable and unfortunate they are not actually doing anything wrong. When we start seeing evidence of collusion and cartelling between the training providers that would be the time for the government to step in.

There are risks to both the student and training provider in offering VETFEE funding so I guess their way of managing that is to jack up the cost a little and allow something for the increased administrative burden.

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The kelpie

Last edited by The Kelpie; 9th Jun 2013 at 02:25.
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Old 9th Jun 2013, 06:44
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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They went from charging a normal GA MECIR price to an OAA price. It didn't so much create competition as a duopoly but that could be because RVAC are the only GA flying school in Melbourne with fee-help at the moment. Hopefully competition will bring down the prices are more get approved.
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Old 9th Jun 2013, 07:30
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 767
I hope so McGrath.

OAA have a lot to answer for bringing European Flight Training costs (approx GBP75k for an integrated course) to Australia using an exchange rate of GBP0.36 to the AU$. The situation now is so different!!

Since then flight training costs have sky-rocketed because other schools could see that individuals were prepared to pay it - especially when using Government money!!

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The Kelpie

Last edited by The Kelpie; 9th Jun 2013 at 07:42.
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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 05:48
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 46
But as a cadet, you will have to deduct $15k+ per year paying off the training costs. And you will be on the junior first officer salary for 2 years too (assuming the previous comments are true).
In the ab-initio program, Jetstar doesn't fund that much, most of it would be put on fee-help. Assuming you earn 70k+ you could pay that back in a few years easily.
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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 09:13
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Assuming you earn 70k+ you could pay that back in a few years easily.
Depending of course on where you are based and your other commitments.
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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 12:19
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by FLGOFF View Post
But as a cadet, you will have to deduct $15k+ per year paying off the training costs. And you will be on the junior first officer salary for 2 years too (assuming the previous comments are true).
In the ab-initio program, Jetstar doesn't fund that much, most of it would be put on fee-help. Assuming you earn 70k+ you could pay that back in a few years easily.
Incorrect.

Once a cadet completes the an-initio course thus expending their entire FEEHELP they must do the Advanced element also which costs another $85k. Jet star finance this over six years but it is written in the bond agreement that Jetstar can increase this amount in its sole discretion.

So.....on a flexiline wage of approx $56k per annum you not only have to pay your 110k VETFEE debt off but you also have to pay $14k back to Jetstar each year.

$56k minus VETFEE repayments minus Jetstar repayments equals NOT MUCH LEFT!!!

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Old 23rd Jun 2013, 14:39
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 260
"Cadetship" makes this scheme seem legitimate. It is not a Cadetship, it is a scheme for a company to take advantage of prospective pilots. This company has no interest in the career of its victims.
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Old 24th Jun 2013, 11:41
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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"Cadetship" makes this scheme seem legitimate. It is not a Cadetship, it is a scheme for a company to take advantage of prospective pilots. This company has no interest in the career of its victims.
Cadetship = the new Indentureship
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 04:03
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 260
Tradesmen are or were indentured. You or your guardian signed to say that you would work for a set period of time, usually four years, for apprentice wages. These wages were a percentage of tradesman wages and increased each year. In return for your indenture, the company provided everything, tools, work clothes and paid for the apprentice to attend trade school. At no time was the apprentice ever asked to put his hand in his pocket. The apprentice could not belong to a union or go on strike. He could not leave his employer nor could he be sacked without mutual agreement and sitting before a Government tribunal.
Airlines want it both ways. They want to treat their so called cadets as apprentices whilst making them pay for the privilege.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 04:24
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YMMB
Age: 54
Posts: 699
Over the past couple of years I've met about a dozen current or former Jetstar Cadets.

They all seems pretty enthusiastic and motivated.

The two complaints I heard were:

* OAA was a bit disorganised about the flying, and the cadets had to compensate for this by being a bit more motivated and pushing harder to get the training done.

* There was little or none contact between Jetstar and the cadets during the training.

Overall they were happy, although a couple thought the Virgin cadetship sounded better.

Cadetships are here to stay and will grow.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 05:23
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,244
always honest

Yeah Pete,

They are going to tell a stranger that the path they took is going to cost them a fortune more than doing it by the more tried and tested way. They are also going to tell you that Jetstar is paying them way less than a direct entry FO and still have to pay off a huge debt. Or maybe they haven't realised yet that they have been taken advantage of. They will eventually though.

I assume they also let you know that in the Jetstar ranks they aren't very popular with alot of people for various reasons. The cadet that selected flaps up during a go around I suspect is a very popular guy. I have it from the horses mouth that cadets get extra sims because of the appalling stats they have on crap landings.

I'm trying to imagine the cockpit conversation between senior capt and cadet FO.

Capt "what do you do outside of flying young man/lady?"

FO "I Like playing xbox and checking my friends status updates on facebook"

Silence until TOD.

I have no problem with cadetships as long as they aren't designed as a revenue stream/cost saveing measure which this one clearly is.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 06:27
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YMMB
Age: 54
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I can't see how Jetstar could use the cadetships to raise revenue?

The money goes to CAE/OAA/Swinburne, not Jetstar.

Well, you just sound like a jaded GA pilot.

A couple of months ago I met four Jetstar cadets who had just finished their OAA training and were waiting for slots in the CAE A320 simulator in the UK. They went straight from Seminoles to the A320. This must be appalling to a GA pilot who might struggle for years making poor money in old planes, hoping for the chance in an airline.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 07:15
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
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If cadets are so good why dont they get paid what a direct entry FO gets?
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 07:54
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dark Side OF Moon Or SE Qld
Age: 36
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Peter, are you really 48?
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 08:07
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 449
As I've said on another thread, Peter005 is the most inexperienced aviation 'expert' on these forums. His opinions are biased towards what involves his son. Just check out all of the RMIT threads.

I'd block him but I find it funny.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 08:08
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 61
Over the past couple of years I've met about a dozen current or former Jetstar Cadets.

They all seems pretty enthusiastic and motivated.

The two complaints I heard were:

* OAA was a bit disorganised about the flying, and the cadets had to compensate for this by being a bit more motivated and pushing harder to get the training done.

* There was little or none contact between Jetstar and the cadets during the training.

Overall they were happy, although a couple thought the Virgin cadetship sounded better.

Cadetships are here to stay and will grow.
Excuse me peterc005, but aren't you the same gentleman who has already been sprung on another thread, making specious claims about the virtues of one of the training providers who benefit from these schemes?

I note no mention of the financial impost to these starry-eyed youngsters who are duped into this path to an airline.

Tell you what: I'll accept the existence of this as an alternative path to what many see as the ultimate goal, if you & others stop referring to it as a "cadetship." As has been pointed out in another post, the term implies a financial commitment on the part of the prospective employer, instead of the cost being entirely borne by the trainee. It's a fine piece of doublespeak which conceals the true nature of the arrangement, thereby seeking to legitimise it.

If the system had transparency and merit, those who promote it wouldn't need to misrepresent it.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 08:42
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YMMB
Age: 54
Posts: 699
I've met a dozen current and former Jetstar cadets.

None suggested that anything significant was misrepresented.

Any gripes they had are probably due to minor mismanagement, rather than misrepresentation.

My recollection was that 16 started the OAA course last year, and that 15 completed the training, and are now soon to start their A320 TR to fly for Jetstar.

Sounds like this is what they signed up for and pretty much what they got.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 08:52
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Straya
Posts: 103
Peter,
You are a troll.
Myself and many others on here know who you really are, so if I was you I'd limit the crap you post.
Mods!?
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 09:07
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 61
I've met a dozen current and former Jetstar cadets.

None suggested that anything significant was misrepresented.

Any gripes they had are probably due to minor mismanagement, rather than misrepresentation.

My recollection was that 16 started the OAA course last year, and that 15 completed the training, and are now soon to start their A320 TR to fly for Jetstar.

Sounds like this is what they signed up for and pretty much what they got.
That's not the misrepresentation to which I referred, as I suspect you well know.

I'm talking about the simple, deliberate corruption of the English language, in order to make something appear to be what it's not.

If you or the illustrious employer can come up with a word which accurately describes this system of trainee-funded recruitment, your defence might have some weight. (Hint: "cadetship" ain't it.)
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