MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program
I'm waiting for someone to jump in and tell us you guys have heard it all wrong. Just like this person said a few posts ago to similar posts.
The newbies don't even have PPLs yet and they are complaining.
They think everything will be given to them. I'm sure worse things will happen to them in their career than not getting their "paid for job" at Jetstar.
Flyboat North, you realise that when Qantas start retiring there 767 fleet this year, there are going to be a ****load of surplus Qantas pilots who probably will end up at jetstar on LWOP or be forced to take jobs at jetstar which is going to displace a lot of opportunities for these cadets. Keep in mind too, Qantas are going to be taking back some of the domestic routes that had been given to jetstar. Supposedly this new Qantaslink 717 operations is going to be replacing some jetstar flights too.
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Jetstar Cadets going to QLINK
What ABSOLUTE bull****!
QLINK is not only completely separate from JQ but recruitment and retainment is also completely separate from QF mainline (its why some of the QF cadets from post 2010 were upset as they were being placed INTO Qlink) with no prospect of transferring to mainline.
QLINK of late is also moving away from cadets in favor of direct entry. they have shutdown the foundation course because of the "exemplary skill and attitude" demonstrated by its candidates. the traineeship course is also on hold but will be brought back when a suitable training provider is found!
HR
QLINK is not only completely separate from JQ but recruitment and retainment is also completely separate from QF mainline (its why some of the QF cadets from post 2010 were upset as they were being placed INTO Qlink) with no prospect of transferring to mainline.
QLINK of late is also moving away from cadets in favor of direct entry. they have shutdown the foundation course because of the "exemplary skill and attitude" demonstrated by its candidates. the traineeship course is also on hold but will be brought back when a suitable training provider is found!
HR
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for any new hire, if joining the qf group jet fleet is in your sights you need your fukcin head read. esp if doing it on borrowed coin
jq mgmt dont know whats happening next week let alone in sept '15
jq mgmt dont know whats happening next week let alone in sept '15
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Going Nowhere -
QLink doesn't need any more newbies who think they belong in a jet...
QLink doesn't need any more newbies who think they belong in a jet...
Better they linger around QLink than GA!! If recent candidates are anything to go by, keep them the hell away from (me, and) single pilot ops!
Besides, surely wearing one of those QLink hats would suit the cadet ego more...
The worm turns!
Look FBN, I have labeled you a troll, but against my better judgement I'm at least going to try to enlighten you.
I did the hard yards in G/A, and I'm a Captain on one of those turboprops you so fervently despise. We have Cadets, and almost without exception they have proven themselves up to the task. What they lack in experience is usually compensated for by good training, intelligence and enthusiasm. Putting some aspects of their low experience aside, on a day to day basis, it's difficult to tell the difference between the two intake streams.
Make no mistake however, cadetships in Australia and for that matter overseas, have evolved for one reason and one reason only: To keep the supply and demand for pilots firmly in the favour of employers. If you believe otherwise, especially considering your profile as a 38 year old non airline pilot, then it just goes to shows how little you know about the true nature of airline recruitment here or anywhere else.
As a regional airline pilot, I am exactly were I choose to be today. Many other regional and G/A drivers aspire to bigger things, and the very best of luck to them. The reality for the foreseeable future will probably be that the real and employed pilots in this country may just have to sit tight for a while.
As for those currently undergoing cadet training, they may just find themselves without a job due to the pendulum swinging back to the employer. You do realise that until employed they have no rights under an industrial agreement? If you honestly believe that people who are essentially unemployed pilots with zero experience (cadets), will have a better chance of employment in the coming environment, then you are probably even more naive than your posts suggest.
I did the hard yards in G/A, and I'm a Captain on one of those turboprops you so fervently despise. We have Cadets, and almost without exception they have proven themselves up to the task. What they lack in experience is usually compensated for by good training, intelligence and enthusiasm. Putting some aspects of their low experience aside, on a day to day basis, it's difficult to tell the difference between the two intake streams.
Make no mistake however, cadetships in Australia and for that matter overseas, have evolved for one reason and one reason only: To keep the supply and demand for pilots firmly in the favour of employers. If you believe otherwise, especially considering your profile as a 38 year old non airline pilot, then it just goes to shows how little you know about the true nature of airline recruitment here or anywhere else.
As a regional airline pilot, I am exactly were I choose to be today. Many other regional and G/A drivers aspire to bigger things, and the very best of luck to them. The reality for the foreseeable future will probably be that the real and employed pilots in this country may just have to sit tight for a while.
As for those currently undergoing cadet training, they may just find themselves without a job due to the pendulum swinging back to the employer. You do realise that until employed they have no rights under an industrial agreement? If you honestly believe that people who are essentially unemployed pilots with zero experience (cadets), will have a better chance of employment in the coming environment, then you are probably even more naive than your posts suggest.
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 6th Apr 2014 at 02:31. Reason: Clarity
Cadets served their purpose in driving down Terms, Conditions and Wages. That's all it was ever about.
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Cadet ships = wage control
Basically for the company it's like fixing the interest rate on your home loan for 5 years
LCC love this as it fits their model by knowing as many fixed costs going forward.
Which then reduces their risk.
And we all know the financial risk in aviation is huge.
Basically for the company it's like fixing the interest rate on your home loan for 5 years
LCC love this as it fits their model by knowing as many fixed costs going forward.
Which then reduces their risk.
And we all know the financial risk in aviation is huge.
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FLGOFF, by your own numbers the minimum acceptance would be around 2.25%. How can you not fact check your own post? Worse than the ABC....
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Scare Factor : No guarantee of a job
The reality:
"Upon successful completion of the Jetstar Australia Pilot Cadet Program, you will be offered with a place in the conditional employee reserve with airline. There is the intention to employ successful cadet pilots however it is dependent on the position vacancy and industry performance at the time"
Yes you do actually have to pass the course, no real promises until then. It is just outrageous.
I think GA would be a much better bet , you can get your training for 20% less, then after ten years you will have at best a 20% chance of getting a jet job (more likely 5% right now), it is a much smarter way to go.
The big bad horrible company , imagine doing that to poor little student pilot, not guaranteeing them a job without insisting on performance standards being met.
The way they treat people is just atrociously, taking young naive year 12 leavers insisting on performance obligations being met before they even employ them, and then having the hide the then 19 year old only $80,000 whilst the goes through a mentored FO program for 18 months. Extra training , extra sims and only $80K - wouldn't get out of bed for it.
Then the poor cadet is only guaranteed at least $100k two years after being abused in such a heinous manner. It is sh*t money for a twenty year old - and it is all just a conspiracy by the evil corporation.
The reality:
"Upon successful completion of the Jetstar Australia Pilot Cadet Program, you will be offered with a place in the conditional employee reserve with airline. There is the intention to employ successful cadet pilots however it is dependent on the position vacancy and industry performance at the time"
Yes you do actually have to pass the course, no real promises until then. It is just outrageous.
I think GA would be a much better bet , you can get your training for 20% less, then after ten years you will have at best a 20% chance of getting a jet job (more likely 5% right now), it is a much smarter way to go.
The big bad horrible company , imagine doing that to poor little student pilot, not guaranteeing them a job without insisting on performance standards being met.
The way they treat people is just atrociously, taking young naive year 12 leavers insisting on performance obligations being met before they even employ them, and then having the hide the then 19 year old only $80,000 whilst the goes through a mentored FO program for 18 months. Extra training , extra sims and only $80K - wouldn't get out of bed for it.
Then the poor cadet is only guaranteed at least $100k two years after being abused in such a heinous manner. It is sh*t money for a twenty year old - and it is all just a conspiracy by the evil corporation.
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Lets get a few facts of GA straight:
I spent 13 months to get my CPL from 0 hours. Spent $71,000.
I spent about 6 months in GA earning the award of $36k, after that haven't earnt less than $60k.
I spent less than 4 years in GA before an interview at Jetstar came along.
Considering you would spend $135,000 in a cadetship to get a CPL versus roughly $228,000 you could earn in GA over those 4 years before heading to an airline, it's arguably better to go via GA where training costs less and leaves you in a better financial position over the same time period it takes to get into an airline.
CADETSHIP
2 years flight training
3 years as an FO $70k for 2 years, $110 for 1 year
Total earnt $250,000 (2 years x $70k, 1 year $110k)
Total costs $135,000 plus endorsement
Outcome $115,000
GA
1 year flight training
4 years in GA
Total earnt $228,000 (3.5 years x $60k, 0.5 years x $36k)
Total costs $71,000 plus endorsement
Outcome $157,000
You earn more via GA....can spend that $42k on a jetski and strippers.
I spent 13 months to get my CPL from 0 hours. Spent $71,000.
I spent about 6 months in GA earning the award of $36k, after that haven't earnt less than $60k.
I spent less than 4 years in GA before an interview at Jetstar came along.
Considering you would spend $135,000 in a cadetship to get a CPL versus roughly $228,000 you could earn in GA over those 4 years before heading to an airline, it's arguably better to go via GA where training costs less and leaves you in a better financial position over the same time period it takes to get into an airline.
CADETSHIP
2 years flight training
3 years as an FO $70k for 2 years, $110 for 1 year
Total earnt $250,000 (2 years x $70k, 1 year $110k)
Total costs $135,000 plus endorsement
Outcome $115,000
GA
1 year flight training
4 years in GA
Total earnt $228,000 (3.5 years x $60k, 0.5 years x $36k)
Total costs $71,000 plus endorsement
Outcome $157,000
You earn more via GA....can spend that $42k on a jetski and strippers.
Last edited by tmpffisch; 8th Apr 2014 at 09:46. Reason: math
FBN,
Weren't Jetstar in trouble with the ATO a few years back for trying to pay Australian Cadets in New Zealand dollar's or something along those lines?
Who would want to work for a company who's sole interest is to screw their pilots over as many ways as they can?
morno
Weren't Jetstar in trouble with the ATO a few years back for trying to pay Australian Cadets in New Zealand dollar's or something along those lines?
Who would want to work for a company who's sole interest is to screw their pilots over as many ways as they can?
morno
Well if you reread your own post you said the MINIMUM was "probably" around one percent then stated numbers that would provide an absolute minimum of 2.25%. I'm not surprised those that support the cadetship stream have difficulty with numerical reasoning and reading comprehension.....
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$70K for ATPL/CPL/IR don't think so - would say at least $100K , maybe $85K if you really want to scrimp.
Training for Jetstar Cadetship 1.5 years , lucky to complete all of above in much less I would think
Wages first couple of years for Jetstar cadets , most are grossing $85K and over , just take the basic and add 25% pretty conservative really.
Yes some people reach an airline after 4 years GA, great for them , the figure would be less than 5% , probably more likely 2% of GA entrants to airlines.
Really just the tag line from a flying school when you ask about career prospects "Worst case mate , five years to a Jet Job" .
Most joining first airline Jet/FO , very few under late twenties, or early thirties really , typically 3000 plus hours to be competitive, normally will take ten years in GA/Regional.
Think of it this way , when you transition to your Turboprop command the Cadet will be transitioning to an Airbus command, he is five years in Jetstar, you are five in GA
You join the airline four five years later, the cadet is almost looking at Widebody command, and is likely at least 1 million ahead of you in career earnings , he has had six figure salary for ten years, you have averaged $60K at best , and likely spent three years either unemployed or under employed.
Yes be a Cadet & Go Direct to the Jet
Training for Jetstar Cadetship 1.5 years , lucky to complete all of above in much less I would think
Wages first couple of years for Jetstar cadets , most are grossing $85K and over , just take the basic and add 25% pretty conservative really.
Yes some people reach an airline after 4 years GA, great for them , the figure would be less than 5% , probably more likely 2% of GA entrants to airlines.
Really just the tag line from a flying school when you ask about career prospects "Worst case mate , five years to a Jet Job" .
Most joining first airline Jet/FO , very few under late twenties, or early thirties really , typically 3000 plus hours to be competitive, normally will take ten years in GA/Regional.
Think of it this way , when you transition to your Turboprop command the Cadet will be transitioning to an Airbus command, he is five years in Jetstar, you are five in GA
You join the airline four five years later, the cadet is almost looking at Widebody command, and is likely at least 1 million ahead of you in career earnings , he has had six figure salary for ten years, you have averaged $60K at best , and likely spent three years either unemployed or under employed.
Yes be a Cadet & Go Direct to the Jet
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Well if you reread your own post you said the MINIMUM was "probably" around one percent then stated numbers that would provide an absolute minimum of 2.25%. I'm not surprised those that support the cadetship stream have difficulty with numerical reasoning and reading comprehension.....
acceptance rate is probably slightly higher than 1%
FBN, I've never heard so much dribble come out of one persons mouth before.
Your opinions are quite far from the facts.
3,000hrs in 10 years in GA? You're kidding right? I had over 5,000hrs after 10 years in GA and I barely went near 500hrs a year for most of it, mainly because of the type of operation I was doing.
I hope to god I never have to share a cockpit with you.
morno
Your opinions are quite far from the facts.
3,000hrs in 10 years in GA? You're kidding right? I had over 5,000hrs after 10 years in GA and I barely went near 500hrs a year for most of it, mainly because of the type of operation I was doing.
I hope to god I never have to share a cockpit with you.
morno
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The vast majority of GA careers have long periods in the "slave" system at flying schools , where you man the reception full time, only get paid for flying hours - how wonderful providing free labor to a business owner, or on the "casual list" at a charter company, or working for free tossing jumpers.
Long perods of unemployment , under employment , unpaid employment , seasonal employment, months wasted looking for jobs , traveling around Australia just for interviews.
Massive glut of people under 500 hours looking for work.
Leave school , get CPL/IR spend likely $90 K doing that , you are now at least 19, then go GA
70% of your cohort will have dropped out with two or three years, never got one flying job or not prepared to leave the city , don't fancy the reality of the work situation outlined above.
Those who in ten years have 4000 hours will have done exceptionally well, and you can now apply for an airline job. Sure there will be a rock star who has 7000 hours but they are maybe like one in 100.
But unlike others in their twenties you won't have bought a house , had decent holidays , or have many assets, lot's of missed relationship opportunities that will never come back (most partners won't move to the outback). Massive missed career opportunities in all sorts of other fields. You can never get those back , go back to uni at 28 to do a health/tech degree - it just won't happen. But hey that big break is "just around the corner"
GA wannabes need to think about the reality of how their life will be instead of swallowing the "jet in 5 five years" rubbish promulgated by the flying schools.
The speed of the responses here clearly indicates people who have plenty of time on their hands , unemployed likely
Long perods of unemployment , under employment , unpaid employment , seasonal employment, months wasted looking for jobs , traveling around Australia just for interviews.
Massive glut of people under 500 hours looking for work.
Leave school , get CPL/IR spend likely $90 K doing that , you are now at least 19, then go GA
70% of your cohort will have dropped out with two or three years, never got one flying job or not prepared to leave the city , don't fancy the reality of the work situation outlined above.
Those who in ten years have 4000 hours will have done exceptionally well, and you can now apply for an airline job. Sure there will be a rock star who has 7000 hours but they are maybe like one in 100.
But unlike others in their twenties you won't have bought a house , had decent holidays , or have many assets, lot's of missed relationship opportunities that will never come back (most partners won't move to the outback). Massive missed career opportunities in all sorts of other fields. You can never get those back , go back to uni at 28 to do a health/tech degree - it just won't happen. But hey that big break is "just around the corner"
GA wannabes need to think about the reality of how their life will be instead of swallowing the "jet in 5 five years" rubbish promulgated by the flying schools.
The speed of the responses here clearly indicates people who have plenty of time on their hands , unemployed likely