MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

[pull-up-terrain]

Dawn Patrol
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas or thoughts on the future of the Jetstar Cadet Program at Swinbourne University considering the changes that have been announced by Alan Joyce today?

Just remember, jetstar doesn't guarantee a job upon completion of the cadet ship. If qantas has to get rid of a few hundred pilots in the coming years, the unions may make some sort of arrangement with Qantas management so that they can be given jobs at jetstar or given LWOP etc. If that's the case, jetstar will have to take on QF pilots before taking on jetstar cadet pilots.

[peterc005]

How does Jetstar make a profit from Cadets?

Money for training goes to OAA/CAE/Swinburne, not Jetstar.

The 30-odd grand for an A320 type rating goes to CAE/OAA in the UK.

I've met Jetstar cadets from four or five courses, and from what I can tell about 90% complete the training and I haven't heard of one to completed not getting a job.

The former cadets now flying for Jetstar regularly complain about OAA/Swinburne being a bit disorganised, but seem generally happy with the deal they got.

If you were a young guy keen on the airlines and got offered a similar cadetship you'd be mad not to jump at the opportunity.

[Dawn Patrol]

Some good points. Thanks for the answers.

I sort of figured it would still be cheaper for Jetstar to employ a cadet produced FO than a more experienced person who has been laid off by Qantas.

And peterc005 I have heard similar things with regards to the Uni side of things being a little disorganised but a generally positive vibe overall.

Cheers.

[morno]

Ahhh peterc, so predictable.

Always a one sided affair with you. What's so bad about someone who goes out bush to start with?

And I believe Jetstar does make money off the cadet program.

morno

[Oakape]

I sort of figured it would still be cheaper for Jetstar to employ a cadet produced FO than a more experienced person who has been laid off by Qantas.

Modern aviation summed up in one line! The airline management mantra of today is 'get rid of the older, experienced guys; the new guy is cheaper'.

As someone once told me - "Accountants - they know the cost of everything & the value of nothing!"

[pull-up-terrain]

.Ahhh peterc, so predictable.

I wonder if peterc005 has a financial interest in this cadetship because there is a lecturer at Swineburne University in the aviation area with the name Peter...

[Lookleft]

How does Jetstar make a profit from Cadets?

Have you not heard of the "facilitation fee" Peter? A rather large sum of money that goes to Jetstar. They also get paid less than a direct entry F/O when they first start.

[Ted Nugent]

How does Jetstar make a profit from Cadets?

Pete

Cadets are paid at the JFO rate, last time I checked that equates to a difference of $35,397 PA form the Level 1 direct entry FO rate. Multiply that by the current amount of JFO's (74) on the seniority list, this equates to a wage saving of $2,619,318 PA today! Every new JFO that is employed will push this figure up.

There are some big $$ to be saved by employing cadets over direct entry FO's, if Jetstar couldn't make money out of this scheme they wouldn't bother.

Ted

[peterc005]

Hi Ted,

that's interesting.

Is there a limit to the ratio of JFOs to other pilots?

Are all of the JFOs cadets?

I guess they stay as JFOs until they have an ATPL (year or two?) ?

For a young guy coming thru the ranks working as a Jetstar JFO is still going to be a much better paid gig than doing small charter or instructing work.

[Ted Nugent]

Pete

Is there a limit to the ratio of JFOs to other pilots?

No

Are all of the JFOs cadets?

Yes

I guess they stay as JFOs until they have an ATPL (year or two?) ?

Yes

For a young guy coming thru the ranks working as a Jetstar JFO is still going to be a much better paid gig than doing small charter or instructing work.

This argument has been done to death!

Ted

[tmpffisch]

peterc005. Jetstar doesn't have cadetships because there is a social case towards it...the thought process wasn't "we should develop an employment stream of cadets because having to build diversity & experience over a range of aircraft types, airspace, operators & passengers, is much too hard.".

It's not out of the goodness of Jetstar's heart. A quick look at Jetstar's social investment extends to Starkids (overseas child poverty) and Flying Start (community sponsorship). Not those poor poor wannabe pilots...

They found that there is a financial case towards having a cadetship!

[mcgrath50]

I wonder if peterc005 has a financial interest in this cadetship because there is a lecturer at Swineburne University in the aviation area with the name Peter...

I highly doubt it, the Swinburne Peter has a lot more class.

For a young guy coming thru the ranks working as a Jetstar JFO is still going to be a much better paid gig than doing small charter or instructing work.

Agreed but when you are in your early 20s pay isn't everything. I catch up regularly with a Jetstar cadet friend. I'm jealous of his overseas holidays, his days off, his relative financial security, he's jealous of the flying and experience I'm getting in GA, including the PIC time which will make it easier for me to get a captain seat if/when I join an airline. The grass is always greener.

I have had this debate with Peter before. The Jetstar cadetship is a way to become an airline pilot. For SOME people it will be the best. It definitely will not be for all. If I was at the start of the journey I would still seriously consider all the other pathways available to see what suits me.

[Advs]

Each go their own...

Issue I have is 10 cadetships overall is what is to be competed. JQ8 starts March 3rd. JQ6 and 7 are PPL to CPL training atm. CAE are pushing them to finish at a faster rate, also threatening to kick some out at a training level ( requires JQ approval, but has happened to a few)
Will there be enough FO seats available to facilitate the 4-8 cadet attrition rate every 6 months with the last lost scheduled to finish CPL training by June 16.

[sillograph]

A cadet ship is another way of the company having more wage control.

Cadet ship=wage control

[alexmcal0]

Hi everyone,

I am 18 and am interested in applying to a Jetstar pilot cadet program. All I have ever wanted to do my entire life is be an airline pilot, and upon conversing with a few current and retired airline pilots, the general consensus they have given is that a cadetship is the way to go. I finished year 12 last year and received good grades in Maths, Physics and English, and am currently studying Aerospace Engineering and Business Management at university.

I have heard that a tertiary qualification is a good thing to have these days, but all I really want to do is fly and my thoughts are to go through a cadetship (if possible) and study once employed with an airline and gaining hours - because as I understand, hours are all that future employers will look at.

My question is: Is a cadetship a good way to go? or should I study now and wait until I am in my mid 20s and then start flying some other way

And please, I don't want to be attacked and insulted by a barrage of bitter and twisted old men because I am interested in cadetships - I am after constructive comments/criticism...

Thanks

[Humbly Reserved]

Finish Uni First

Hey Alex,

If it was me I'd finish that business/engineering degree first. It'll give you something to fall back on when Aviation hits a dreaded downturn.

HR

[mcgrath50]

At least do another year in the degree. At worst it will give you more RPL when you join the cadetship (which Swinburne will give you). At best you will see what happens with the QF/JQ financial difficulties and you can stay there.

In terms of "should I do a cadetship?" google, search here etc. It's a personal choice. I personally had a bit of both and I would say, GA is great, for an 18 year old it is as fun and adventurous as taking a year off and backpacking Asia. As someone who was young getting into aviation. Enjoy the journey and the lifestyle, you don't have to worry about wives, kids, mortgages etc. for many years, have fun and make the most of the freedom. Trust me, ~20 on a 210 is very young in this country. Spend a few years kicking around GA and you will still get into airlines younger than many 'cadets' who are career changing.

*all advice is based on my circumstances and the current employment conditions. Stuff changes all the time and we are all an inch away from centrelink. Happy Flighting!

[Advs]

If you want to fly airlines do the Cadetship.
The airline industry is of such a low atm there is no realistic way of getting in with moderate flying experience ie. 1000tt 500mepic

Issue is with the Kadet system is your a 100k in debt and not guaranteed of any job after.
In light of current financial woes at QF and JQ I wouldn't be surprised if candidates from JQ8-10 getting the big black boot of cyaaaaa!

[Captain Nomad]

moderate flying experience ie. 1000tt 500mepic

Moderate flying experience?! 1000TT - that's probably barely two years worth of work in the industry...

[j3pipercub]

I was thinking the same thing. My understanding that 4k was about the 'moderate' level.