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Did Barrier get their AOC back?

Old 14th May 2013, 08:46
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so what's the latest? any interesting news
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Old 31st May 2013, 00:55
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Qlink AOC at risk?

Today at YHID I saw the Sunbus driver working the checkin counter at Qlink.

Does this mean the Qlink AOC is at risk?

Sorry, not really funny, but I couldn't resist.

Last edited by Two_dogs; 31st May 2013 at 01:26. Reason: Predictive spelling
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Old 31st May 2013, 02:29
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My mistake then. Was sighted from about 15 metres.
Striking resemblance though.
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Old 4th Jun 2013, 11:40
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Warren Ench has come out swinging tonight in the adjournment debate. CASA Cairns and three individuals have been named. Warren will be pushing for an enquiry post September 14th...have to wait for hansard to catch up tomorrow.
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Old 4th Jun 2013, 11:58
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Surely the young kid running the CAsA comedy capers in Cairns can handle Warrens 'intrusions'? After all, he did most of his time on Level 3 in Brisbane and was held in high esteem after trialling CMT in Melbourne (even though the concept had been trialled several years earlier).
How this kid could even remotely have a grip on 'those' FNQ Inspectors that have spent many a year as a law unto themselves lauding, bashing, bullying local industry? I mean, the inspectors had it over the last field office manager who is back in Melbourne, and now the 'kid' is in town has the broom been shoved through the place? Yep, I thought as much.
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Old 4th Jun 2013, 12:39
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Ooh errr. Wazza has named names!

Surely heads will roll this (27th) time...
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Old 4th Jun 2013, 13:35
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There.is a lot more than that ten second grab. Bullying, unlawful entry, warning off prospective buyers, questionable interpretations, charges not tested in court,.

ah what the heck! You can only hope that THIS TIME just maybe!
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Old 4th Jun 2013, 14:10
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Quote from Senator Xenophon additional comments section of the senate report.
Senate Committees ? Parliament of Australia


1.23 It is my view that CASA, under Mr McCormick, has become a regulatory bully that appears to take any action available to ensure its own shortcomings are not made public. This poses great risks to aviation safety, and the safety of the travelling public. Equally, the ATSB—which should fearlessly expose any shortcomings on the part of CASA and other organisations to improve aviation safety—has become institutionally timid and appears to lack the strength to perform its role adequately. Both agencies require a complete overhaul, and I believe it is only luck that their ineptness has not resulted in further deaths so far. There is an urgent need for an Inspector-General of Aviation Safety, entirely independent of the Minister and his department, to be a watchdog for these agencies.
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Old 4th Jun 2013, 20:51
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Game on me thinks!

Serious shot across the bow, love it!:
Mr ENTSCH (Leichhardt—Chief Opposition Whip)(21:30): I rise tonight to outline a very serious issue —the seemingly corrupt and anticommercial conduct of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority office in Cairns, which appears to hide in the shadows and cites 'safety' as a reason to advance personal vendettas against local aviation operators. Numerous operators in Cairns have been subjected to incompetence, threats and demands from individuals who make decisions outside of CASA's authority. Barrier Aviation is the most recent victim, but I know of at least three other operators who have been irreparably damaged by the gestapo tactics of a few individuals, namely, Phil Lister, Mark Ayrey and Gerard Campbell, and with the Director of CASA himself turning a blind eye.

The complaints include: totally incorrect interpretations of regulations, requiring operators to jump through unnecessary hoops at the inspectors' commands; the inexperience of inspectors, not knowing how to interpret regulations or legislation; inspectors entering aircraft unauthorised and unsupervised and interfering with master control switches; inspectors threatening regulatory action if operators do not do as they are told even when the inspectors are wrong; formal complaints being buried and never responded to.

It is common knowledge within the aviation industry that, if CASA want you shut down, they simply bury you with regulations and wear you down with costs until you go broke. In Cairns the personal vendetta against David Kilin, an industry stalwart of almost 40 years, has led to the closure of his life's work.

It started back in 2011 when a complaint was made by Barrier to the Industry Complaints Commissioner. This complaint implicated a number of individuals within CASA Cairns who had displayed incompetent, unethical and irresponsible conduct towards Barrier. In a blatant conflict of interest, the main subject of the complaint, Mr Phil Lister, remained as an inspector of Barrier Aviation and associated companies and, incredibly, received a promotion. Despite requests, CASA's office refused to assign Barrier to another CASA office. Meanwhile, the complaint was never responded to and, in retaliation, CASA spent almost 18 months setting Barrier Aviation up. This included a complaint that was lodged against Barrier by a disgruntled ex-employee, who then fled back to his home country of New Zealand, resulting in the cancellation of Barrier's AOC.

Barrier has serious concerns with CASA Cairns's procedures, including the total lack of collaboration between CASA and the industry, unilateral decisionmaking, reversal of the onus of proof and the lack of procedural fairness and rights of appeal. At no time did CASA try to work with the operator to address their concerns. It was simply a witch-hunt to seek revenge on David Kilin. CASA has lied about evidence and padded their investigation to make Barrier into an unsafe operator despite Barrier previously excelling in this area.

What is also unbelievable is the abuse of process. Six months after Barrier was forced to shut its doors, they still have not been able to test a single allegation in court—and at the cost of $28,000 per day in lost revenue. And to top it off, CASA has sent press release after press release with statements that have never been tested.

Around 50 people have lost their jobs, investors have lost millions of dollars, and David Kilin has lost his life's work. And even now, CASA is not content with just burying Barrier, they want to dance on the grave as well. I was disgusted to learn that CASA Cairns has been speaking to potential purchasers of Barrier aircraft, threatening that they will not approve their airworthiness.

Since Barrier's very public demise, I have had numerous calls from right across the country from people telling me that CASA Cairns has a history of destroying small businesses. The most troubling thing is that, while these callers are keen to express a huge amount of sympathy for Barrier, they are too scared to speak publicly. This industry urgently needs an independent body and rights mechanisms to hold CASA Cairns accountable for their own inadequacies and conduct. After 14 September, I will be calling for a full inquiry. I will not let Barrier be destroyed without holding those individuals who are directly responsible for this sordid business accountable for their actions.
Top stuff Wazza! Almost follows verbatim Wazza's previous media release back on the '19th of March' and also covered by 'Paul Phelan'.

Last edited by Sarcs; 5th Jun 2013 at 01:24.
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Old 4th Jun 2013, 21:04
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All heil the fuehrer!

Promotions?? Warren forgot to mention Mr Campbell's 'rise and rise' within the ranks of Fort Fumble. His invitation to become an honorary member of the iron ring is in the mail! As for the other individuals mentioned by Mr Entsch, oh how so true. Most dealings with them end with a 'we are watching you' type of subtle message.
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Old 7th Jun 2013, 10:20
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Corruption is Serious Stuff

Those are some serious allegations coming from Mr Entsch, how far can you push parliamentary privilege? I hope there is some form of follow up.

Real shame the mainstream media has not pick up on this, especially following on the heels of the whole CASA/ATSB debacle last week. If an MP speaks up like this, accuses a federal government department of corruption surly there has to be some coverage and a follow up investigation?
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Old 7th Jun 2013, 11:40
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Wing nut,
something that has puzzled me for a long time.
This particular event is but a tiny instance in a multitude of instances of corruption that pervades our regulator. Good grief we are talking about a Quarter of a BILLION dollars in tax payers money frittered away on regulatory reform alone, compounded by businesses unnecessarily destroyed, jobs lost, and its not as though the industry has been entirely silent about it.
Yet the so called guardians in the main stream press have entirely ignored it, almost as though a nudge, nudge,wink, wink, has been played.
They are great trotting out the "last bastion" etc when threatened, but defenders of the "Public Interest" B...ll sh...t!!! defenders of self interest more like it.

Last edited by thorn bird; 7th Jun 2013 at 11:41.
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Old 7th Jun 2013, 22:09
  #53 (permalink)  

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Warren will be pushing for an enquiry post September 14th
Get real!

Warren Entsch and many others have been pushing for an enquiry for more than a decade, through both Coalition and Labour Governments. Warren had contact with John Anderson (Minister for Transport 1998 - 2005) and is close to Warren Truss (Minister for Transport 2005 – 2006) but was unable to establish an any form of enquiry or even influence CASA actions and policies during those years.

As Creampuff indicates, Warren Entsch knows an enquiry into CASA will never happen. There is absolutely no votes in an enquiry.

The problems go back to the early 1990, post Leroy Keith, but an enquiry will never happen. Governments never have a broad spectrum, uncontrolled enquiry into one of their own Authorities. The Skull's contract won't be renewed and he will drift off into the sunset with his golden hand shake, another will accept the poison chalice and destruction of the Australian aviation industry will continue unabated.

Facts of life: Barrier's AOC no longer exists and Barrier is consigned to the history of Australian aviation. Many operators, good and bad, have been wiped out by CASA over the last 20 years and there will be many more yet to be destroyed in the future.

And there is at least another couple of Directors of Aviation Safety in the regulatory review. Eventually a Director will declare it "a living document, continually evolving to meet the ever changing demands of contemporary aviation" thus removing any need to end the process and guaranteeing careers in perpetuity for many new generations of incompetents unable to hold a real job in aviation.

That is life. If you think any differently you are dreaming!
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Old 7th Jun 2013, 22:17
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Tail Wheel, you have far more experience in this particular area. Have you ever seen individuals named under privilege and yet not continue to some sort of investigation?
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Old 7th Jun 2013, 22:23
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I have no experience in bringing CASA to heel although I've had a few interesting stoushes with them over the years! Won some, lost some! Merely an interested observer of the circus that is DCA/CAA/CASA over 40 plus years.

I would think perhaps a couple of mutually agreeable, quite lucrative golden hand shakes may be in order, although being CASA Cairns, there may be a fuel depot near Ipswich up for grabs or possible a position in PNG aviation? Or maybe a CASA consultancy? A job assisting Counsel at Coroner's Inquests? Or a book on aviation safety to be written?

Nothing wrong with having a failed CASA career on one's resume. A golden hand shake from CASA opens so many new, lucrative doors!

So Warren names a few CASA miscreants in Parliament - naming in Parliament are mere words on a piece of paper. Surely you don't think Albanese will do anything, especially in his last 98 days in office? Like John Anderson and Warren Truss before him, he doesn't really have a strong record of taking any interest in CASA, now does he?

And who is the current Shadow Minister for Infrastructure and Transport and presumably Minister for Transport after September? Warren Truss!
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Old 7th Jun 2013, 23:34
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True! I must concede.
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Old 8th Jun 2013, 01:03
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My view of the future is a little more dystopian Tailwheel. When institutions go bad through corruption, for that is what we are talking about, the industry won't die, instead it will devolve to an African model.

What differentiates western first world economies from Third World economies is the levels of trust and cooperation in the society. This has been ignored by economists, wrongly, because the level of trust is inversely proportional to the transaction costs in doing business.

The less we trust CASA and vice versa, the more expensive it becomes to conduct business as both sides fight to protect themselves from each other. The net result is that nobody benefits because business just isn't transacted.

To put that another way, suppose you see an opportunity to build a sight seeing operation, you figure the market is big enough for four aircraft, Ten pilots and Two mechanics plus support staff. However our hypothetical corrupt regulator decides to sting you for establishment "fees" of $200,000 and ongoing costs associated with "audits" - in other words, a huge and ongoing transaction cost burden that adds no value to the business. Once you realize this, you forget about investing and everyone loses, tourists, investors and employees alike. The economy accordingly stops growing.

As a practical example, I dived in New Guinea with a well know live aboard operator. Few times. He eventually was forced out of the country by the burden of "fees" and the constant requests for "gifts" from officials of all sorts. Everyone lost, divers, local employees, the villagers who "owned" various dive sites, etc.

What will happen in Australia is that if you are "mates" with CASA then you will be allowed to operate provided you supply the lunches, free trips, "Christmas Presents", etc. that will become customary. The loser will be the Australian economy.

Last edited by Sunfish; 8th Jun 2013 at 01:05.
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Old 8th Jun 2013, 06:57
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Everyone lost, divers, local employees, the villagers who "owned" various dive sites, etc.
Not so. In corrupt societies like PNG and parts of Asia, the few recipients of corrupt payments do not lose. Indeed, in the 20 plus years since I left PNG, an extremely wealthy elite has emerged. Rumour has it that a hand full of past and present politicians have wealth measured in hundreds of millions of Kina. They are surrounded by a society of guards, fixers, enforcers and hangers on, all of whom live off that wealth.

The little guy suffers but the wealthy elite don't give a dam.

Australian aviation is fundamentally safe, professional, competent and innovative with an acceptably low accident rate. That is a result of the integrity, professionalism and training of the operators, pilots and engineers. CASA can not take any credit, indeed, CASA's involvement may on occasion, be detrimental to the safety of aviation in Australia.
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Old 8th Jun 2013, 08:52
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Taily,
Unfortunately you are probably right, the Philippines is a classic example. The country is run by a cabel of about five or six "Families" who divide the country pretty much as a medieval feifdom.
Singapore is really just a giant corporation under the control of a few elite.
The problem here is our regulator is not just corrupt but stupid.
As the cost of doing business continues to rise under the ever increasing regulatory burden there will reach a point where customers will no longer be able to afford the services. A smart investor today would look at aviation and the risks apparent in becoming involved and walk away. That's why only the dreamers continue, under resourced and continually struggling to survive.
So our regulators, happy with the odd brown paper bag on Friday arvo, free lunches and "Study" trips continue to "regulate" the industry into oblivion. What will these people do when there's nothing left to regulate, no free lunches then.

Last edited by thorn bird; 8th Jun 2013 at 08:53.
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Old 9th Jun 2013, 06:57
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jobs hereafter....

unfortunately, thorny, those who have stuffed GA...being good little "public" servants will just job hop to another division of DoT and go feral again with impractical regulations, NCNs, Certicates, Approvals, Licences, manuals etc... to work over Roads or Rail.
And history will repeat itself.

If they do to drivers and car maintainers as they have done to pilots and engineers, then your best friend will be the guy/gal that owns a horse.!
Advance Australia where ???? while you build your own cart to go with it.

And now to needle the thread...

From the outset ALL of Barrier was shut down, because "something" ?? was dodgy ?? in TI and they were ..." a serious and imminent threat to (passengers and) aviation safety".
SO with such a heinous event to hand...and of course all the evidence to support it... yet to hear exactly WHAT it was..

WHAT WAS IT that was so dire, so terrible, so dangerous that the whole show is decimated and 50 workers/ families traumatized ?
Or has the mangy rottewieller found there was little or no meat on the bone of contention, for the GROSS action taken.
Dont hear any noise from the kennel,... is the dog back licking his wounds/balls?.

While the Hon. Warren Entsch MP is calling for an Inquiry (at long last) into the CNS office..that's only one scratch on the whole rotten edifice.
NOT NEARLY enough Warren!! TVL is the same, ditto BNE AF BKN and everywhere else.
Full Judicial Inquiry or Royal Commission wanted ...and warranted.
Just ask all the CAsA "clients/victims..!!!!
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