ANZ SO Recruitment
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ANZ SO Recruitment
Hi, I was wondering if anyone could offer some info on:
- Average pay for an SO including all allowances and sector pay.
- Average/Expected time as an SO at ANZ?
- Expected time to command at ANZ?
- Has ANZ made pilots redundant in the past/ is it likely in the future?
- With 3000+ hours on a 737/320 and a command at my current airline in a couple of years would you recommend the move from a career point of view? Lifestyle wise it'll be an improvement. Money wise it'll be a big downgrade. Just from a career point of view as seen from someone on the inside. I don't like to assume if I can help it!
- Any chance to go SO on the 737/320 and operate given my ratings? if not is pretty much definitely 777 or are 747 and 767 a possibility?
- Typical roster for an SO?
I've googled these things, used PPJN for the salary but would appreciate more definite answers if anyone has them.
As an airline I like the product, the staff seem very professional and like good people and the country is fantastic. Many plus points to joining but the pay, slow progression and job security are fears but unknowns to me!
Thanks in advance to anyone taking the time to help.
- Average pay for an SO including all allowances and sector pay.
- Average/Expected time as an SO at ANZ?
- Expected time to command at ANZ?
- Has ANZ made pilots redundant in the past/ is it likely in the future?
- With 3000+ hours on a 737/320 and a command at my current airline in a couple of years would you recommend the move from a career point of view? Lifestyle wise it'll be an improvement. Money wise it'll be a big downgrade. Just from a career point of view as seen from someone on the inside. I don't like to assume if I can help it!
- Any chance to go SO on the 737/320 and operate given my ratings? if not is pretty much definitely 777 or are 747 and 767 a possibility?
- Typical roster for an SO?
I've googled these things, used PPJN for the salary but would appreciate more definite answers if anyone has them.
As an airline I like the product, the staff seem very professional and like good people and the country is fantastic. Many plus points to joining but the pay, slow progression and job security are fears but unknowns to me!
Thanks in advance to anyone taking the time to help.
I don't know much about the pay, but can tell you a few things.
The time you can expect to be an S/O is anywhere from 7 to 15 years. Time to command can be 20+ years. The job is very stable, I can't think of the last time they made redundancies. The company is very well positioned to the future with a nimble management team, good alliances and a modern fleet mix.
They have made it known the majority of new hires they want to take on will come from the Air New Zealand Link companies, with very few from outside those. In fact I know of someone with 3000 hours on A320s, who was told to go join Mt Cook or Air Nelson for three or four years before he'd be given an interview.
There is a slim chance of getting on the 737, but may only be two or four positions at the most. You will not get direct entry to the A320, ever. Expect to be with the company about 10 years before you get the chance on the A320.
Yes people won't be happy with how they recruit, but at the end of the day it is their train set and they can pretty much dictate how people get to use it.
The time you can expect to be an S/O is anywhere from 7 to 15 years. Time to command can be 20+ years. The job is very stable, I can't think of the last time they made redundancies. The company is very well positioned to the future with a nimble management team, good alliances and a modern fleet mix.
They have made it known the majority of new hires they want to take on will come from the Air New Zealand Link companies, with very few from outside those. In fact I know of someone with 3000 hours on A320s, who was told to go join Mt Cook or Air Nelson for three or four years before he'd be given an interview.
There is a slim chance of getting on the 737, but may only be two or four positions at the most. You will not get direct entry to the A320, ever. Expect to be with the company about 10 years before you get the chance on the A320.
Yes people won't be happy with how they recruit, but at the end of the day it is their train set and they can pretty much dictate how people get to use it.
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Thanks for the response. What is the function of an SO in ANZ? Radios, filing in the flight plan and filling a seat in the cruise? Any take offs and landings at all? Or just in the sim?
Any answers to my other questions anyone?
Cheers.
Any answers to my other questions anyone?
Cheers.
Whybyflier,
Salary hopefully wont be mentioned on here, but it is pretty good. Taxable allowances add to the mix such that you'll make more than at any other operator in NZ. Non taxable allowances are irrelevant as they are all spent overseas. We dont have sector pay, but do have incentive pay. Anything over 60 hours for long haul means a percentage increase. Overall the money is very good, I certainly lead a good lifestyle.
Longest Ive heard someone spending as an SO voluntarily is around 8 years. Those who have spent longer have invariably been commuters who don't wont to move to Auckland. Time to an A320 job as it stands today will be in the 3-4 year range. Of course who knows how things will speed up or slow down.
Historically command on a widebody has taken around 20 years. Some guys have picked up 737 commands within 5 years. Personally I would guess at having an A320 command at around the 15 year mark. Typically progression from there is quite quick.
Redundancies were most recently made around the early 90's. It was a time of major restructuring and hopefully wont happen again.
At the moment a surprising number of guys are being sent to the 737 as an FO (equivalent in rank and pay to SO), as well as to the 747 and 767 as SOs. A320 is a significant jump in salary, you'll have to wait your turn for that one.
SO rosters vary markedly. 747 might involve 1-2 SFO returns in a 28 day roster. 767 would do a little bit more, the 777 the most. Typically 777 SOs are at around 70-80 hours a roster. That would mean around 16-18 days physically in NZ.
Air NZ simply wont be able to hire all they need from the Link carriers. Up to half the guys on intakes at the moment have come from outside the group.
Lifestyle is excellent.
Hope that helps.
Salary hopefully wont be mentioned on here, but it is pretty good. Taxable allowances add to the mix such that you'll make more than at any other operator in NZ. Non taxable allowances are irrelevant as they are all spent overseas. We dont have sector pay, but do have incentive pay. Anything over 60 hours for long haul means a percentage increase. Overall the money is very good, I certainly lead a good lifestyle.
Longest Ive heard someone spending as an SO voluntarily is around 8 years. Those who have spent longer have invariably been commuters who don't wont to move to Auckland. Time to an A320 job as it stands today will be in the 3-4 year range. Of course who knows how things will speed up or slow down.
Historically command on a widebody has taken around 20 years. Some guys have picked up 737 commands within 5 years. Personally I would guess at having an A320 command at around the 15 year mark. Typically progression from there is quite quick.
Redundancies were most recently made around the early 90's. It was a time of major restructuring and hopefully wont happen again.
At the moment a surprising number of guys are being sent to the 737 as an FO (equivalent in rank and pay to SO), as well as to the 747 and 767 as SOs. A320 is a significant jump in salary, you'll have to wait your turn for that one.
SO rosters vary markedly. 747 might involve 1-2 SFO returns in a 28 day roster. 767 would do a little bit more, the 777 the most. Typically 777 SOs are at around 70-80 hours a roster. That would mean around 16-18 days physically in NZ.
Air NZ simply wont be able to hire all they need from the Link carriers. Up to half the guys on intakes at the moment have come from outside the group.
Lifestyle is excellent.
Hope that helps.
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No touching of the controls below 10000ft
No Flight Plan work, its all done by the Flight Planning Dept.
Pretty much the relief pilot...yawn.
Its only been in the past few years that the SO actually gets a full type rating, they used to with-hold the final sign off.
So yup, lifestyle job if it suits you.
Pay information is in a couple of places on the internet if you search hard enough.
No Flight Plan work, its all done by the Flight Planning Dept.
Pretty much the relief pilot...yawn.
Its only been in the past few years that the SO actually gets a full type rating, they used to with-hold the final sign off.
So yup, lifestyle job if it suits you.
Pay information is in a couple of places on the internet if you search hard enough.
Last edited by DeltaT; 9th Feb 2013 at 08:35.
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I've seen the pay on ppjn and I'd guess it's pretty accurate or within a couple of RPI increases.
At least it's a full TR. Do many get fed up and go elsewhere? As an SO are you involved and engaged in the operation or treated like a dogsbody?
The chap in that is a called a second first officer - is it his role!
Is it almost certain to get 777 SO given the fleet sizes if successful in selection? Are the 767 routes to the pacific islands all turnarounds or night stops?
Sorry for all the questions - I just want to have a good idea of the operation and manage my own expectations.
Thanks again for the responses.
At least it's a full TR. Do many get fed up and go elsewhere? As an SO are you involved and engaged in the operation or treated like a dogsbody?
The chap in that is a called a second first officer - is it his role!
Is it almost certain to get 777 SO given the fleet sizes if successful in selection? Are the 767 routes to the pacific islands all turnarounds or night stops?
Sorry for all the questions - I just want to have a good idea of the operation and manage my own expectations.
Thanks again for the responses.
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Two very different opinions there On whether guys from outside the three regionals have a shot. I'm also looking at so jet. Just wondering when they will call up guys from outside the three for interviews.
lotsofplanes - Im seeing a number of people turning up on rosters or getting starts that havent come directly from the Links. As I said previously with the number of people they want to hire this year and next they simply cant recruit solely from the Links.
You're not allowed in the seat from essentially pushback until 20k. Apart from that you're a full part of the crew. You will be given legs where you run the planning etc.
There has been a bit of surprise at the number of guys being sent to the 747 and 737. Maybe that is just a blip. Would expect most new hires to go 777.
The odd guy leaves, but very few.
When I compare to other jobs out there I think it is pretty good. Money wise the whole package is good, and the time off is excellent.
You're not allowed in the seat from essentially pushback until 20k. Apart from that you're a full part of the crew. You will be given legs where you run the planning etc.
There has been a bit of surprise at the number of guys being sent to the 747 and 737. Maybe that is just a blip. Would expect most new hires to go 777.
The odd guy leaves, but very few.
When I compare to other jobs out there I think it is pretty good. Money wise the whole package is good, and the time off is excellent.
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How does a cruise relief SO log the time?
What sort of planning is the SO doing? And said 'leg' is still cruise relief, presume you mean 20,000ft to 20,000ft?
Has 10,000ft reference been removed from the manuals ?
What sort of planning is the SO doing? And said 'leg' is still cruise relief, presume you mean 20,000ft to 20,000ft?
Has 10,000ft reference been removed from the manuals ?
Last edited by DeltaT; 10th Feb 2013 at 02:46.
How old are you ? Early 20s = go for it, mid 40s = think very hard.
How is your present job ? Company/Location/Lifestyle
A 25 year old with a young family working for a crap low cost in the Middle East or Europe with an unhappy wife and poor job security would be mad not to take ANZ.
A 45 year old with a nice job in a good location would have to consider very carefully.
I assume you are somewhere in the middle.
How is your present job ? Company/Location/Lifestyle
A 25 year old with a young family working for a crap low cost in the Middle East or Europe with an unhappy wife and poor job security would be mad not to take ANZ.
A 45 year old with a nice job in a good location would have to consider very carefully.
I assume you are somewhere in the middle.
DeltaT - Time is logged as copilot. When the SO runs the leg he/she will do so in the same manner as when the Captain or the FO runs their leg. There is very little planning to do.
You can call the SO role whatever you like. You're not looked down on or treated differently. The only difference is that after setting up the flight deck on your leg you jump out of the seat prior to pushback and then jump back in at 20k.
You can call the SO role whatever you like. You're not looked down on or treated differently. The only difference is that after setting up the flight deck on your leg you jump out of the seat prior to pushback and then jump back in at 20k.
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Every pilot logs the time from off blocks to on blocks. Its not like some airlines where you only log the time you are physically in one of the front seats.
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ANZ SO Recruitment
Sitting on the seat doesn't make you part of a crew. You have to be assigned to that duty and operating within crew duty limits etc. It takes 3-4 pilots to fly longhaul. Being in the third or fourth seat doesn't make you less of a part of the crew.