Channel 10 Chopper Reported Crash Near Perth.
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That was my impression too. Local paper in Perth is full of pretty unilluminating commentary from the camerman and you'd think, from reading reports, that the media regard the pilot as expendable.
Last edited by tecman; 20th Jan 2013 at 03:38.
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I was impressed to see the Firemen and Police instinctively run towards the accident site to help.
'Onya' guys and girls. Good job.
Some of you people are being very hard on the cameraman.
In the video linked earlier he said words to the effect of -I thought the pilot was dead...I didn't know whether to go back and help him out, or didn't know if it was going to go up in flames....
Also note the difference in safety gear, with the pilot fully kitted in fire retardant clothing and Brain Bucket, the cameraman in T-Shirt, shorts and shoes.
IMO, the young fella did the right thing getting clear.
I'd be surprised if the chopper pilot had a different idea from that.
'Onya' guys and girls. Good job.
Some of you people are being very hard on the cameraman.
In the video linked earlier he said words to the effect of -I thought the pilot was dead...I didn't know whether to go back and help him out, or didn't know if it was going to go up in flames....
Also note the difference in safety gear, with the pilot fully kitted in fire retardant clothing and Brain Bucket, the cameraman in T-Shirt, shorts and shoes.
IMO, the young fella did the right thing getting clear.
I'd be surprised if the chopper pilot had a different idea from that.
Last edited by Trent 972; 20th Jan 2013 at 11:50.
According to one of the ch7 guys, (online article comment) the cameraman once clear tried to go back but was stopped by police.
Give the guy a break, natural instinct is to get out, he is a cameraman not a flight attendant!
Did make me wonder though, seemed quite difficult for the pilot to get the door open, (quite a heaught I suppose) is there not any kind of quick release mechanisms on the doors to get them off in a hurry if needed? He was swinging it a bit before he got it open.
Give the guy a break, natural instinct is to get out, he is a cameraman not a flight attendant!
Did make me wonder though, seemed quite difficult for the pilot to get the door open, (quite a heaught I suppose) is there not any kind of quick release mechanisms on the doors to get them off in a hurry if needed? He was swinging it a bit before he got it open.
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The operator seems to have a non functioning safety management system. The camera man is dressed for a barbaque, not for crewing on a helicopter carrying out aerial work. A helicopter hovering at low level with the main cabin door open is not without risk. Any safety management risk assessment would have overalls and flight helmet as a minimum. It would be interesting to know if that harness he is wearing was actually attached to the airframe during the accident.
Probably a bit harsh criticising him for running. He has probably just had the biggest fright of his young life and he is on pure adrenalin. The pilot on the other hand has some protection on his bonce and still has his wits about him.
Probably a bit harsh criticising him for running. He has probably just had the biggest fright of his young life and he is on pure adrenalin. The pilot on the other hand has some protection on his bonce and still has his wits about him.
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I take your point XXX, generalization though it is. The cameraman made his own on the spot decision and, in the end, will no doubt do his own reconciliation with himself. My impression was that the commercial media swung pretty quickly into justification mode, with some embellishment after a pass or two through the local current affairs shows over here. And the pilot expendability inference I noted previously is a bit galling, too. Quite an adventure in the name of letting us have a gawk at the poor sod who rolled his truck!
Last edited by tecman; 20th Jan 2013 at 05:29.
Think he says at the end of the footage that his harness was attached... or maybe I heard it wrong.
I thought the camera crews also go out on foot to film if the chopper lands at a scene, would that be a factor in the way he is dressed? Is he classed a crew member or a passenger? I have seen this helicopter land at a scene before and the camera guy got out to film. Not sure if this is standard ops though...
At the end of the day none of us knows how we will react. Training helps, but does not guarantee a given repsonse. I once witnessed an accident close up and while the intention to help is there sometimes the body takes over and will not let us do what we want to do. And yes you do replay it over and over wondering if you could have done differently, unless you have been there you cannot judge the guy...
I thought the camera crews also go out on foot to film if the chopper lands at a scene, would that be a factor in the way he is dressed? Is he classed a crew member or a passenger? I have seen this helicopter land at a scene before and the camera guy got out to film. Not sure if this is standard ops though...
At the end of the day none of us knows how we will react. Training helps, but does not guarantee a given repsonse. I once witnessed an accident close up and while the intention to help is there sometimes the body takes over and will not let us do what we want to do. And yes you do replay it over and over wondering if you could have done differently, unless you have been there you cannot judge the guy...
Last edited by givemewings; 20th Jan 2013 at 05:30. Reason: added something
I hear what you all say, BUT they were supposed to be a CREW and crew look after each other don't they???
I'm sure the B17 and Lanc bomber crews wouldn't have bolted from the scene in WW2 nor would have a Huey Door Gunner in Nam.....
Anyway.
I'm sure the B17 and Lanc bomber crews wouldn't have bolted from the scene in WW2 nor would have a Huey Door Gunner in Nam.....
Anyway.
Standard helicopter emergency crew brief:
In the event of a crash move 100m upwind of the wreckage. Once there conduct a headcount, the most senior, coherent person will make a decision on returning to the aircraft to conduct rescue.
That looks like what he did or maybe he was off to the tree line to check that "Charlie" wasn't planning an ambush Nitpicker....
I wouldn't leave the crew either in nam or WW2 - safety in numbers during evasion. Id hardly compare that to crashing next to a bloody fire truck in peace time. A scared sh!tless survivor would only hinder the emergency workers.
In the event of a crash move 100m upwind of the wreckage. Once there conduct a headcount, the most senior, coherent person will make a decision on returning to the aircraft to conduct rescue.
That looks like what he did or maybe he was off to the tree line to check that "Charlie" wasn't planning an ambush Nitpicker....
I wouldn't leave the crew either in nam or WW2 - safety in numbers during evasion. Id hardly compare that to crashing next to a bloody fire truck in peace time. A scared sh!tless survivor would only hinder the emergency workers.
Last edited by Username here; 20th Jan 2013 at 11:15.
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I love the double standard in the way this one has been reported - "helicopter made an emergency landing". And "helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing earlier today after encountering some issues mid-flight"
What happened to the usual - aviation disaster - two people escape a fiery death after helicopter tumbles from the sky and crashes?
What happened to the usual - aviation disaster - two people escape a fiery death after helicopter tumbles from the sky and crashes?
Last edited by Aerodynamisist; 20th Jan 2013 at 09:07.
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Its because it involved THEM, Aerodynamisist. The heroic media is showing us just how brave they are, risking life and limb to show a rolled over truck from the air for 2 second of nightly footage. Channel 10 seemed to be almost in joy they were part of the story and Ch9 seemed to begrudgingly show the event in the same light (no mention it was the competition though).
That guy was running like hell......
A front door was seen popping up as the Pilot tried to get out just as the Cameraman was running away saving himself......it should have been obvious to the Cameraman that HIS Pilot wasn't dead and maybe a little help would be nice!!
I understand what you say but I still think he could have stayed 10 more seconds to help the Pilot.....That's what I would hope I'd do in the situation. ( unless the Pilot was senior to me then all bets are off
)
A front door was seen popping up as the Pilot tried to get out just as the Cameraman was running away saving himself......it should have been obvious to the Cameraman that HIS Pilot wasn't dead and maybe a little help would be nice!!
I understand what you say but I still think he could have stayed 10 more seconds to help the Pilot.....That's what I would hope I'd do in the situation. ( unless the Pilot was senior to me then all bets are off
)
Last edited by nitpicker330; 20th Jan 2013 at 10:43.
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It seems fairly obvious the cameraman made the decision to run once he sees the pilot opening the door and climbing out. I don't think I'd like to have been in his position. Do you do the Hero bit and risk both of you being enveloped in a ball of flames? - or do you get away from the smell of split fuel on a hot exhaust, just as a reflex action to save your own skin? Be honest - self-preservation is a very strong instinct.
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interesting thoughts onetrack, given humans are the only species with the ability to end the inevitable.
Like all other animals we also posses a very strong survival instinct, so there is nothing to say any one of us would not have acted the same. The cameramans actions under duress were what they were. Anyone of us can sit in front of a screen and say we would have acted different. Until it happens you won't know how you will react, and second time around (if you are that unfortunate) the reaction will be completely different, based on the outcome of incident #1
in breaking news, the cameraman has gone in for surgery to treat a serious case of sphincter strain.
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Someone else took the time to post about the attire of the cameraman. I happen to agree. He shouldn't be running around in basic civvies like that. Seriously dumb sms by channel 10. these guys often land get out and do some filming............in OZ hell you got no chance against a snake... Put some proper clothes on that give you max survivability in the wok wok, and are suitable to walking around in the scrub not watching what you are stepping on.
Like all other animals we also posses a very strong survival instinct, so there is nothing to say any one of us would not have acted the same. The cameramans actions under duress were what they were. Anyone of us can sit in front of a screen and say we would have acted different. Until it happens you won't know how you will react, and second time around (if you are that unfortunate) the reaction will be completely different, based on the outcome of incident #1
in breaking news, the cameraman has gone in for surgery to treat a serious case of sphincter strain.
--------------------------------------------------------
Someone else took the time to post about the attire of the cameraman. I happen to agree. He shouldn't be running around in basic civvies like that. Seriously dumb sms by channel 10. these guys often land get out and do some filming............in OZ hell you got no chance against a snake... Put some proper clothes on that give you max survivability in the wok wok, and are suitable to walking around in the scrub not watching what you are stepping on.
I hear what you all say, BUT they were supposed to be a CREW and crew look after each other don't they???
I'm sure the B17 and Lanc bomber crews wouldn't have bolted from the scene in WW2 nor would have a Huey Door Gunner in Nam.....
I'm sure the B17 and Lanc bomber crews wouldn't have bolted from the scene in WW2 nor would have a Huey Door Gunner in Nam.....
As others have mentioned the pilot was possibly telling the camera man to run as the camera man was a passenger. If he had been a mate he probably still would have told him to run but the camera man (hopefully) would not have left a mate behind.
Exactly. Nitpicker, you've lost the plot. The poor guy thought he was going to die (after getting probably 1 second warning), was probably so pumped up with adrenalin that he was about to pop and you're having a go at him about bolting when hitting the ground? Get real.
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The operator seems to have a non functioning safety management system. The camera man is dressed for a barbaque, not for crewing on a helicopter carrying out aerial work. A helicopter hovering at low level with the main cabin door open is not without risk. Any safety management risk assessment would have overalls and flight helmet as a minimum