B1900D or DHC8-300?
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B1900D or DHC8-300?
I may be in a position shortly to have my choice of being an FO on either of these two aircraft. The Beech has a much quicker time to command and everyone seems to think that there is "no time like command time". That being said the Beech is certified to be flown as a single pilot aircraft regardless of many pilots actually fly it for RPT ops. It has been suggested to me that I should take the DHC 8 as it is truly and multi crew airplane and employers love multi crew experience.
So the question is does Command time on a Beech count more than FO time on a DHC 8?
Which will open more doors?
So the question is does Command time on a Beech count more than FO time on a DHC 8?
Which will open more doors?
You can't beat multi engine turbine command time.
It would come down to who the operators are.
If the Dash is operated by a major with a reasonable time to command and career security, base variety for lifestyle etc then it's a no brainer.
If both are just a wrung up to a major jet operator, they love multi crew turbine command time and the 1900 ticks the same box as the dash. If you get that quicker, you'll see the jet quicker.
I don't know anywhere that flys a D single Pilot? It's above 5700kg. Thats all that counts.
It would come down to who the operators are.
If the Dash is operated by a major with a reasonable time to command and career security, base variety for lifestyle etc then it's a no brainer.
If both are just a wrung up to a major jet operator, they love multi crew turbine command time and the 1900 ticks the same box as the dash. If you get that quicker, you'll see the jet quicker.
I don't know anywhere that flys a D single Pilot? It's above 5700kg. Thats all that counts.
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 4th Dec 2012 at 04:54.
Having flown both types, I agree with GG that I am not aware of any operator that flies the B1900 single pilot routinely. That includes one private operator of the type that I am familiar with.
If the operator has a solid SOP for multi-crew operations in the B1900 - then you will possibly get the best of both worlds (ie multi-crew experience AND fairly rapid progression to command, if you're good enough...). I know many B1900 pilots that have moved to jets as the next step.
The Dasher might have a longer queue for command in store for you (no problem if you want regional flying as your career, but may be a problem if you seek the majors), and multi-crew ops in the DHC-8-anything is no more challenging than in the B1900 - save for the very ligitimate addition of a F/A into the multi-crew mix - but I'm not sure that would be enough IMHO to tip the scales in favour of the Dash for multi-crew vs the B1900 for progression.
Good question, though - I reckon you'll get some good discussion on the topic.
If the operator has a solid SOP for multi-crew operations in the B1900 - then you will possibly get the best of both worlds (ie multi-crew experience AND fairly rapid progression to command, if you're good enough...). I know many B1900 pilots that have moved to jets as the next step.
The Dasher might have a longer queue for command in store for you (no problem if you want regional flying as your career, but may be a problem if you seek the majors), and multi-crew ops in the DHC-8-anything is no more challenging than in the B1900 - save for the very ligitimate addition of a F/A into the multi-crew mix - but I'm not sure that would be enough IMHO to tip the scales in favour of the Dash for multi-crew vs the B1900 for progression.
Good question, though - I reckon you'll get some good discussion on the topic.
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Having also flown both types (makes me feel so grown up), I'd go for the Dash. Being a career F/O I appreciate someone bringing me a coffee during the flight to perk me up.
In saying that if you want the hours to get a jet job then the multi-command time on the 1900 is probably the way to go.
If you're happy spending time in the Regionals then go for the Dash, wish I was still flying it.
In saying that if you want the hours to get a jet job then the multi-command time on the 1900 is probably the way to go.
If you're happy spending time in the Regionals then go for the Dash, wish I was still flying it.
If your ultimate goal is a particular jet airline, do you know what that airline's minimum command hours requirements are? Once in most airlines, you will do five or more years in the RHS which is long enough for them to know your suitability, so whether you have 500 hours prior command, or 5000, probably makes little difference to your promotion prospects.
Meantime with a choice, unless you are way short of minimum command hours requirements, look at the respective operators. Is the B1900 operation some small and obscure GA outfit with little in the way of a formal check and training structure? Presumably the Dash 8-300 operator is quite substantial.
Another consideration : Does the B1900 operator use simulators for initial and recurrent training? The Dash operator is required to by law. Jet operators will be interested in your prior exposure to simulators, and in fact without this you may struggle to make it through their selection process.
A prospective jet employer should be looking at your background. Better a F/O who has come from a structured, reputable operation than a Captain from a cowboy mob. This is not to say your B1900 people are cowboys, but a lot is in the perception.
Good luck.
Meantime with a choice, unless you are way short of minimum command hours requirements, look at the respective operators. Is the B1900 operation some small and obscure GA outfit with little in the way of a formal check and training structure? Presumably the Dash 8-300 operator is quite substantial.
Another consideration : Does the B1900 operator use simulators for initial and recurrent training? The Dash operator is required to by law. Jet operators will be interested in your prior exposure to simulators, and in fact without this you may struggle to make it through their selection process.
A prospective jet employer should be looking at your background. Better a F/O who has come from a structured, reputable operation than a Captain from a cowboy mob. This is not to say your B1900 people are cowboys, but a lot is in the perception.
Good luck.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 4th Dec 2012 at 19:23.
Agree with the above. The B1900 is only a blown up King Air and if it were not for the weight could easily be flown single pilot. In fact in private operations it can be flown single pilot under some jurisdictions. A bit like the smaller Citations - i.e. not a real jet and thus experience on such types not as highly regarded as if on something a bit heavier and a bit more complex. If it were Metro time, maybe.....because the Metro is quite demanding to fly well.
At least that's how I saw it when I was in the business of hiring pilots for jets.
At least that's how I saw it when I was in the business of hiring pilots for jets.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 5th Dec 2012 at 08:47.
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What is happening in the links at the moment may be very different in a few years time. A quick command on the 1900 is only good if Uncle Koru is still hiring as they are now. If it slows down in the future then you may be stuck flying a 1900 when you could be in line for a command on the Dash. Other airlines have taken FOs from both operators so if Air NZ is your goal then take what you can and get a Jetstar yes letter. Based on current Air NZ hiring practices you will be fast tracked for an interview.
In reality you should take what you are given and play the hand you are dealt as both options will place you better for the future.
In reality you should take what you are given and play the hand you are dealt as both options will place you better for the future.
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Really? I only heard about a few that were off to J*. I don't think it will be happening on a regular basis, as in if you were offered a job now by another airline they wouldn't be calling you because of that. I think it was more for the guys who were already on yes letters for somewhere else.
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Hownow, a couple of guys on Jetconnect yes's and also Pac Blue.
I think everyone would agree that the dash 8 job is the better one, but as has been mentioned here, if the goal is Airnz, then the 1900 would have to be the best option for getting an interview quickest. Commands at Eagle coming up in less than a year, where Air Nelson is around 5 years. Except for a few lucky fo's in the past few years, you need a command to get an Airnz interview.
But as Bongo said, both are pretty good options, and there is so much movement coming up at Airnz that it probably really doesn't matter where you go.
I think everyone would agree that the dash 8 job is the better one, but as has been mentioned here, if the goal is Airnz, then the 1900 would have to be the best option for getting an interview quickest. Commands at Eagle coming up in less than a year, where Air Nelson is around 5 years. Except for a few lucky fo's in the past few years, you need a command to get an Airnz interview.
But as Bongo said, both are pretty good options, and there is so much movement coming up at Airnz that it probably really doesn't matter where you go.
For what it's worth, (and if you're actually interested in what they are like to fly, as opposed to just which one will get you on to the 'next best thing' fastest...coz either way, you'll have to actually fly one or the other for a reasonable amount of time). 
The Beech is a far nicer aircraft to handle, well coordinated and for its weight, has plenty of excess power, certainly when compared to a Dash 8 100 or 300, (200 isn't bad). You 'fly' the Beech, you 'drive' the Dash.
I'm sure that others who've flown both types would agree.
B1900D, the gentleman's turboprop.
That said, it's nice to have an APU, muffin chucker and lav.
The Beech is a far nicer aircraft to handle, well coordinated and for its weight, has plenty of excess power, certainly when compared to a Dash 8 100 or 300, (200 isn't bad). You 'fly' the Beech, you 'drive' the Dash.
I'm sure that others who've flown both types would agree.
B1900D, the gentleman's turboprop.
That said, it's nice to have an APU, muffin chucker and lav.
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2 years to a command at Air Nelson? Yeah good one!
5 years probably is slightly at the higher end, but the guys and girls there that are currently getting commands have all done well over 4 years.
5 years probably is slightly at the higher end, but the guys and girls there that are currently getting commands have all done well over 4 years.
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A few months back ANZ told the pilots in the Liinks to stay in the Links if they wanted a go at the jets. Now they are interviewing they are calling drivers who have yes letters from other operators before those who have stayed loyal. The reason is ANZ do not have enough applications from within the Links to cover their requirements for the future. So they want to retain all their experience in the group. The reward for disloyalty is better senority in ANZ compared to those who remained loyal to the Koru. Everyone will get their chance but a start date with the opposition will get you there quicker.
Eventually the experience levels in the Links will drop to the point that ANZ will start to interview pilots from other operators before those remaining in the Links.
So by going to JS or Virgin you are on a winner. You will either be stopped from going or you will be asked to come back.
For those of you trying to get into the Links focus on these things. First pass your interview and get an offer of employment on any fleet. Apply to ANZ. Do a good job and get your ATPL ASAP. Then apply to the opposition. If they offer you a job take it but make sure ANZ know you are going.
Remember hiring comes in waves and when things slow down a jet job is better than a turboprop job which is better than a piston job which is better than paying for your flying. Never forget that loyalty is for dogs. Dogs lick their own balls. So if you cannot lick your balls then you are not a dog.
Good luck all.
Eventually the experience levels in the Links will drop to the point that ANZ will start to interview pilots from other operators before those remaining in the Links.
So by going to JS or Virgin you are on a winner. You will either be stopped from going or you will be asked to come back.
For those of you trying to get into the Links focus on these things. First pass your interview and get an offer of employment on any fleet. Apply to ANZ. Do a good job and get your ATPL ASAP. Then apply to the opposition. If they offer you a job take it but make sure ANZ know you are going.
Remember hiring comes in waves and when things slow down a jet job is better than a turboprop job which is better than a piston job which is better than paying for your flying. Never forget that loyalty is for dogs. Dogs lick their own balls. So if you cannot lick your balls then you are not a dog.
Good luck all.
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I think command times are coming down at Nelson. It will get to 2 years again in the next few years, it looked like it might have gone to 5 but no now (unless you have your heart set on low turn over bases).
As for the choice between operators. Eagle will be a quicker command, so after 10 months in the job you will get a command and sit next to a guy with 2 months experience in the right seat....sounds awesome to me.
Nelson is a good outfit. Pays ok (far better than eagle), the contract (the ALPA one at least) is good, the plane is good and the training is'nt a big w@nk-fest. Oh, and while I'm upsetting people the 1900D "Airliner" is a peice of junk.
But at the end of the day ANZ value command time which you will get faster at Eagle. However there are two things to consider are:
1 - Should the music stop (ie the industry lunch itself like in the downturn) what seat in which plane do I want to be in?
2 - What happens if I dont get into Air NZ? Alot of people are talking like its a given or a birth-right. They can say no, then what?
As for the choice between operators. Eagle will be a quicker command, so after 10 months in the job you will get a command and sit next to a guy with 2 months experience in the right seat....sounds awesome to me.
Nelson is a good outfit. Pays ok (far better than eagle), the contract (the ALPA one at least) is good, the plane is good and the training is'nt a big w@nk-fest. Oh, and while I'm upsetting people the 1900D "Airliner" is a peice of junk.
But at the end of the day ANZ value command time which you will get faster at Eagle. However there are two things to consider are:
1 - Should the music stop (ie the industry lunch itself like in the downturn) what seat in which plane do I want to be in?
2 - What happens if I dont get into Air NZ? Alot of people are talking like its a given or a birth-right. They can say no, then what?