Do airlines still fly NDB approaches?
The R16 ILS into YMML was down for maintenance a couple of times last week and due to the crappy weather quite a few ndb approaches were done.
A recent A-380 sim involved an NDB approach, although compared to the mid-90's version the only the only thing remotely similar was that the NDB indication had to be observed to confirm the accurate tracking of the GPS based nav system....hardly NDB tracking.
As far as I'm aware you cannot do an NDB approach using your Aircraft's area Nav without the actual NDB. ( except emergencies!! )
Yes having no ADF's makes listening to radio stations a bit difficult but at least we still have HF to hear Radio Australia for the news and Grandstand
Yes having no ADF's makes listening to radio stations a bit difficult but at least we still have HF to hear Radio Australia for the news and Grandstand
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Yes you can
http://www.pprune.org/7552720-post15.html
http://www.pprune.org/7552720-post15.html
An aircraft operated by Qantas under I.F.R. may use an RNP-capable RNAV system in accordance with these instructions as a non-precision approach I.F.R. radio navigation aid for a published non-precision approach procedure, including a related missed approach procedure.
Last edited by Trent 972; 2nd Dec 2012 at 23:32.
overlay approaches are capable of being done provided the correct RNP is entered, this provides the same sort of tolerance as other gnss approaches.
More importantly is the loss of 'Cricket freq'!
More importantly is the loss of 'Cricket freq'!
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The NDB at Denpasar Bali has been U/S for over a year and no-one has complained. Now it's officially decomissioned. A sign of the time I guess when hardly any operator uses NDB approaches any more. BTW, do Qantas still require pilots to have and NDB endorsement on their MECIR rating?
The G1000 caravan we run has a fantastic setup inside, however doesn't come standard or has an ADF inside it. A sign of the times?
If a home-made GPS guided UAV was ever detected heading towards a US city I don't think it would take very many milliseconds before the whole GPS network was shutdown. Mr President probably has a button for that in his briefcase.
GPS.gov: United States Policy
It was also Presidential mandate that Selectivity Availability will never again be implemented into the GPS system and the new Block IIF satellites now launched come without the equipment required to implement S.A.
The US realises how dependent the world is on GPS. Don't forget the precipitating event making GPS available for civilian uses was the KAL007 shoot down.
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Think overlay in this case refers tuning & flying an NDB approach and setting up the GPS for the outbound and inbound tracks on the OBS. In fact you could fly a NDB approach without the ADF and call it an overlay.
Grandpa Aerotart
No Jack, it doesn't.
It refers to pulling the xyz NDB approach out of the arrivals page of the FMC and flying it in LNAV/VNAV with no reference to the underlying terrestrial aid whatsoever - as long as the actual NDB App has not been withdrawn. The NDB doesn't need to be serviceable and the aircraft doesn't need to be fitted with ADFs. And we still have ADF on our IRs and still tick ADF on the navaid part of the flight plan.
As outlined in the CASA approval.
Why you actually would with an RNP AR U or P available remains a mystery.
It refers to pulling the xyz NDB approach out of the arrivals page of the FMC and flying it in LNAV/VNAV with no reference to the underlying terrestrial aid whatsoever - as long as the actual NDB App has not been withdrawn. The NDB doesn't need to be serviceable and the aircraft doesn't need to be fitted with ADFs. And we still have ADF on our IRs and still tick ADF on the navaid part of the flight plan.
As outlined in the CASA approval.
Why you actually would with an RNP AR U or P available remains a mystery.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 3rd Dec 2012 at 12:42.
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You would if you were flying into a runway without a published RNAV-AR or RNAV-GNSS approach... such as the MEL 16 Twin NDB I mentioned (which has now been remedied). There may still be some airports available for diversions or emergency that do not have published RNAV approaches - I haven't checked lately.
QF have a CASA instrument allowing RNAV overlay approaches of NDB or VOR approaches without the navaids being serviceable or even installed on the aircraft. Doing this requires a CASA approval, which QF has (for it's GPS enabled aircraft).
Interestingly enough, as I indicated earlier, QF requires GPWS for RNAV-AR and RNAV-GNSS, but they do not require GPWS for NDB overlay approaches. GPWS doesn't fail every day but that's just an obscure example.
QF have a CASA instrument allowing RNAV overlay approaches of NDB or VOR approaches without the navaids being serviceable or even installed on the aircraft. Doing this requires a CASA approval, which QF has (for it's GPS enabled aircraft).
Interestingly enough, as I indicated earlier, QF requires GPWS for RNAV-AR and RNAV-GNSS, but they do not require GPWS for NDB overlay approaches. GPWS doesn't fail every day but that's just an obscure example.
Last edited by HF3000; 3rd Dec 2012 at 13:39.
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Don't know about the latest jet airline equipage, but it seems the Air Force still use them. A Hercules did a practise one followed by a go-round from 50 feet and a low level departure here yesterday (in fine weather). Get the C-17's over the house at about 800 feet, when they are executing the practise miss on occasion. Be a shame if our NDB is ever decommisioned.
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Nitpicker..........Yes, you should have made that point clear.......there are more airlines out there than yours...........maybe if you pulled your head out of your----you would notice a few things. And er...wrong again on your second point....Really? and they let you fly.....god help us!
Last edited by missing link; 3rd Dec 2012 at 20:24.
Nunc est bibendum
BTW, do Qantas still require pilots to have and NDB endorsement on their MECIR rating?
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Sorry Chuck, getting involved in a conversation I'm not qualified to comment on 
The overlays I was thinking of was actually flying the NDB approach with the ADF but setting up the mighty 430 to the NDB and using it for the lateral tracking. Works bloody well but not quite approved I don't think!
You got 'island reserve' for that haven't ya??
The overlays I was thinking of was actually flying the NDB approach with the ADF but setting up the mighty 430 to the NDB and using it for the lateral tracking. Works bloody well but not quite approved I don't think!
Mayby if you had to one night...into a stormy tropical destination...