Instructor rating or not.....
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Instructor rating or not.....
Hi guys,
I'm chasing some advice from someone other than a CFI at a flying school. I'm approaching the end of my CPL studies in Sydney Australia and am torn between going off and finding some scraps of experience (single VFR) someone post study, and perhaps throwing a twin endorsement on top as I go, or heading straight into an Instructors rating and building the logbook that way. I'm told the insurance that charter ops have precludes a low time pilot like myself acting as PIC. Anyone know anything more about that.
My natural instinct is not to become an Instructor but given the current need for them is quite high, and more likely to be a job I can do without relocating to the middle of nowhere, it has its merits.
All and any thoughts would be really appreciated.
Cheers
I'm chasing some advice from someone other than a CFI at a flying school. I'm approaching the end of my CPL studies in Sydney Australia and am torn between going off and finding some scraps of experience (single VFR) someone post study, and perhaps throwing a twin endorsement on top as I go, or heading straight into an Instructors rating and building the logbook that way. I'm told the insurance that charter ops have precludes a low time pilot like myself acting as PIC. Anyone know anything more about that.
My natural instinct is not to become an Instructor but given the current need for them is quite high, and more likely to be a job I can do without relocating to the middle of nowhere, it has its merits.
All and any thoughts would be really appreciated.
Cheers
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Get some real world flying experience first otherwise you will be repeating only what your instructors taught you. Now they may be the best instructors ever but it isn't a great idea to turn out clones. 
My instructors were also experienced charter pilots who interlaced their instruction with a lot of practical examples of what they were trying to teach. Advice that has proved invaluable over the years.
Further thought. If you don't really want to do it then don't. You attitude will come through to your students and they will hate you for it.
My instructors were also experienced charter pilots who interlaced their instruction with a lot of practical examples of what they were trying to teach. Advice that has proved invaluable over the years.
Further thought. If you don't really want to do it then don't. You attitude will come through to your students and they will hate you for it.
Last edited by PLovett; 24th Oct 2012 at 22:35.
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shawkins
Two things.
1. If you have to ask whether you should do an instructor rating or not - don't do it.
2. Instructing should not be looked at as an hour building exercise.
If you want to help people to learn, to pass on your own experiences, to develop and refine your skills in CRM, teaching, patience and situational awareness then by all means go instructing but if you just want to build hours go somewhere else. You will just end up getting bored and frustrated and not providing the student with the skills and knowledge that they have paid for and that they deserve.
1. If you have to ask whether you should do an instructor rating or not - don't do it.
2. Instructing should not be looked at as an hour building exercise.
If you want to help people to learn, to pass on your own experiences, to develop and refine your skills in CRM, teaching, patience and situational awareness then by all means go instructing but if you just want to build hours go somewhere else. You will just end up getting bored and frustrated and not providing the student with the skills and knowledge that they have paid for and that they deserve.
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When I was doing an instructor rating test with a real gentleman called Ricky Tate{spelling?) (anybody remember him?), way back when, he said to me
"....without Grade 3 instructors there would be no airline pilots".
Just remember that when people try to put down the profession of instructor.
"....without Grade 3 instructors there would be no airline pilots".
Just remember that when people try to put down the profession of instructor.
If your heart isn't in it, please don't do it. That being said it will be the best way for you to hone your flying skills and knowledge of the rules if you do it properly.
Was once explained that an instructor will pass 60% of what they know onto the student. If you (having been that student) don't apply yourself to bring your 60% back up to 100%, then you can see that 60% of the original 60% means not much is being passed onto the second generation of students.
Totally agree with Lexair in that instructors are undervalued in the industry.
Was once explained that an instructor will pass 60% of what they know onto the student. If you (having been that student) don't apply yourself to bring your 60% back up to 100%, then you can see that 60% of the original 60% means not much is being passed onto the second generation of students.
Totally agree with Lexair in that instructors are undervalued in the industry.
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This applies to almost anything in aviation...
If you have to ask the question, the answer is NO!
Should you do an instructor rating? If you're asking the question, your heart isn't in it, do us all a favour, stop now.
Should you take off overloaded? No.
Should you take off with that weird noise coming from the engine? No.
Should you work for less than the award just to get a few hours for the next job? No.
If you have to ask the question, the answer is NO!
Should you do an instructor rating? If you're asking the question, your heart isn't in it, do us all a favour, stop now.
Should you take off overloaded? No.
Should you take off with that weird noise coming from the engine? No.
Should you work for less than the award just to get a few hours for the next job? No.
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Rick Tait?
When I was doing an instructor rating test with a real gentleman called Ricky Tate{spelling?) (anybody remember him?), way back when, he said to me
G.A. Could use a lot more of his calibre, especially when it comes to CASA.
Rick died in the early 70s as a result of doing in his back pulling an aircraft out of a hangar. Long illness as I recall.
That instructor rating would have been a C Grade? Where the A grade automatically qualified for CFI status without the current need for ongoing micro management by control freaks.
If you do the so-called "150 hour" course and come out with 70 in command then yes you may well find that is not enough for some insurance companies. But it doesn't sound like your flying school told you that or, it seems, gave you any kind of realistic career expectations!
What's the point of doing a course that was designed for airline cadets who already have a career mapped out when you are trying to get into GA?
If you do the so-called "200 hour" course then you will come out with more like 130 in command and much more industry ready- and insurable-to get on the first rung of the ladder.
And as for being an instructor, it's high time CASA had some kind of pre-entry requirements to actually be able to fly and teach rather than the only barrier to enrty being the credit card limit and a desire to "fill up the log book".
What's the point of doing a course that was designed for airline cadets who already have a career mapped out when you are trying to get into GA?
If you do the so-called "200 hour" course then you will come out with more like 130 in command and much more industry ready- and insurable-to get on the first rung of the ladder.
And as for being an instructor, it's high time CASA had some kind of pre-entry requirements to actually be able to fly and teach rather than the only barrier to enrty being the credit card limit and a desire to "fill up the log book".
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I'm told the insurance that charter ops have precludes a low time pilot like myself acting as PIC.
Its not ridiculous PoonPossum, its all dependant on which company you're talking about. As with any insurance the requirements depend on how much the company is prepared to pay. If they're happy to pay higher premiums then the insurer is happy to accept people with lower levels of experience, if not then they aren't.
But back to the topic at hand. I'm sort of in the same boat of wondering whether I want to go down the instructor path, except, I have a bit over 1100hrs right now, some multi time and have been involved in a few different operations I'm starting to wonder if maybe I have enough to actually pass onto students.
As everyone said, don't treat it as an hour building exercise, aside from all the points presented above you'll be churning out students who probably won't be up to a higher standard and therefore put themselves at a higher risk of having an accident. Don't forget than when they do its your name sitting in their logbook quite possibly attached to the training flights that affected their accident!!
Instructing shouldn't just be about your logbook, it should be about taking pride in helping to get pilots to a high standard therefore protecting not only themselves and you but the many passengers who put their faith in them and the training they've undergone.
But back to the topic at hand. I'm sort of in the same boat of wondering whether I want to go down the instructor path, except, I have a bit over 1100hrs right now, some multi time and have been involved in a few different operations I'm starting to wonder if maybe I have enough to actually pass onto students.
As everyone said, don't treat it as an hour building exercise, aside from all the points presented above you'll be churning out students who probably won't be up to a higher standard and therefore put themselves at a higher risk of having an accident. Don't forget than when they do its your name sitting in their logbook quite possibly attached to the training flights that affected their accident!!
Instructing shouldn't just be about your logbook, it should be about taking pride in helping to get pilots to a high standard therefore protecting not only themselves and you but the many passengers who put their faith in them and the training they've undergone.
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Like others have said, if you have to ask, it's not for you.
I did an instructor rating (back in 1990, with a job promised at the end, that did not happen!) and found everywhere I went wanted either G2 or higher and was told many times by CFI's that I called in to see, that most of his clientelle were older gents who didnt appreciate handing out hard earned cash to be taught to fly by someone who could be their son! I was told many times, to go get 1000hrs plus, then take up instructing if I was serious.
Now, 22yrs later with over 1000hrs, Id like to do some instructing, but the cost of renewing, combined with the low pay and the fact that Ive got zero instructional flight time (have the 100hrs supervised ab-intio to do) and I'd probably have to move to get full time work, Im thinking Im better off staying in my current "feet on the ground" job (which pays about what a REX captain might get) with the occasional flying skydivers gig and flying for fun.
Lancair
I did an instructor rating (back in 1990, with a job promised at the end, that did not happen!) and found everywhere I went wanted either G2 or higher and was told many times by CFI's that I called in to see, that most of his clientelle were older gents who didnt appreciate handing out hard earned cash to be taught to fly by someone who could be their son! I was told many times, to go get 1000hrs plus, then take up instructing if I was serious.
Now, 22yrs later with over 1000hrs, Id like to do some instructing, but the cost of renewing, combined with the low pay and the fact that Ive got zero instructional flight time (have the 100hrs supervised ab-intio to do) and I'd probably have to move to get full time work, Im thinking Im better off staying in my current "feet on the ground" job (which pays about what a REX captain might get) with the occasional flying skydivers gig and flying for fun.
Lancair
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Hey Shawkins, instructing has its pros and cons just as with any other path you take. Whether your heart is in it or not really doesn't matter that much, it's just a job and a stepping stone for the next progression, think about how many instructors start when they are 20 and spend their whole career as an instructor? Not an awful lot I dare say.
What you do have to do though is to be professional, which means doing your job: instructing to the best of your abilities, and take an interest in the results of your work: the progression of your student.
I am assuming you would like to get into an airline? Well, in that case, your heart is not going to be terribly into SE charter or instructing, but you have to get your experience up somehow. Just make sure you do your job and keep yourself out of trouble. and you'll make it to your end goal.
What you do have to do though is to be professional, which means doing your job: instructing to the best of your abilities, and take an interest in the results of your work: the progression of your student.
I am assuming you would like to get into an airline? Well, in that case, your heart is not going to be terribly into SE charter or instructing, but you have to get your experience up somehow. Just make sure you do your job and keep yourself out of trouble. and you'll make it to your end goal.
