flying on attitude

[walesregent]

A question for the instructors (or anyone with an interest). Does anyone as a rule teach students how to fly in the circuit pattern with absolutely minimal, if any, reference to their instruments (including airspeed indicator)? This was something I encountered another instructor doing because he believed the student spent too much time 'inside'. For someone who has a lot of hours in an aeroplane but is struggling with the 'feel' for flying it, I might be able to see the value in such an exercise, but in this case where the student was totally unfamiliar with the aeroplane and had relatively few hours in total I remain to be educated.

The reason I ask is that it was a very senior instructor/testing officer teaching this, and it is something I have only ever encountered in the realm of 'competition' circuits previously. It also seems to me that on a gusty day, or with other adverse conditions, a lot could go wrong with such a method just as it could if you were to fixate on the 6 pack, but not wanting to deprive my students of any potentially useful instructional tool I am looking for some insight (short of actually asking the guy of course).

[framer]

In my opinion it's a great idea.
I was taught that way and it certainly didn't do any harm.
In a light aircraft I think you should be looking outside with the odd flick of the eyes inside, not the other way around. That's just my opinion though. I have flown with ag pilots who don't even have an operative ASI. I'm not suggesting that is a good idea or a responsible thing to do but it shows that the aircraft will actually fly fine without the gauges.

[smiling monkey]

Believe it or not, that's how many of us were taught to fly over 25 years ago. Goodness knows what's being taught in flight schools these days? Back in those days, you were taught Power + Attitude = Performance. When flying visual, all you need is your tachometer for your power setting, and the earth's horizon for your attitude. I remember my instructor covering the A/H, ASI and altimeter when coming back from the training area. You learnt very quickly how to fly by attitude that way.

[triton140]

Great idea.

My instructor used to get me to fly several circuits with a totally covered panel (including tacho) - I was actually more than pleasantly surprised at how close I could get to altitude/speed around the circuit.



Attitude plus noise = performance

[poonpossum]

*Promptly covers up instruments for next charter*

[b_sta]

Believe it or not, that's how many of us were taught to fly over 25 years ago. Goodness knows what's being taught in flight schools these days?

The same thing, if you go to the right schools. Even with G1000 kit, in ab initio stage we still hammer in power + attitude = performance, 95% eyes outside 5% eyes inside.

[5-in-50]

I do it to students. It gives them tremendous confidence in themselves to know they can fly a nice pattern using outside visual reference alone. This goes double for rudder usage - look outside when rolling, not at the ball.

[A37575]

I do it to students. It gives them tremendous confidence in themselves to know they can fly a nice pattern using outside visual reference alone

Sounds like good fun except how do you know what your altitude is if all the instruments are covered up. While you are having fun with your instructor in the circuit, don't you think it may be bit hazardous to other aircraft that are using their altimeter on the circuit. Best leave the fun with no instruments for the training area, then stick to standard procedures in the circuit.

[Jabawocky]

If you the instructor can't keep an eye on this, with a student, should you be instructing?

Risk to others banks town maybe, but most places Not likely. Pick the right time and place.

Some of us gained heaps from this stuff.

[avconnection]

You're meant to cover the instruments so the student can't see them, not so the instructor can't see them. They sell kits for them in the states. Or you could use paper that's folded at an angle.

Works a treat with students who are struggling to maintaining correct distance on downwind, maintaining runway track on upwind or a constant attitude on final. One or two lessons with a mixture of covering different instruments or all together will usually resolve the issues.

[walesregent]

I should stress that I don't teach people to fixate inside. In the circuit the only instruments I get students to glance at are the altimeter and ASI (also tacho- although I hate it when people try to set power to the individual rpm, I think it takes time to get accustomed to how changes in throttle will affect rpm, so it needs to be checked). I must say, though, I have seen a lot of people get dangerously slow when they pay no attention to their airspeed on final, so if I were to start covering instruments I would wait for a smooth day.

[Sunfish]

An stc'd mk IV sheet of A4 Reflex plus 4 gobs of bluetack in the steady hands of instructor Richard Beer fixed my landings in one session.

[Captain Sand Dune]

My 2c...

POWER (set initally looking out the front, then a quick glance inside to refine) + ATTITUDE (select it, hold it, then TRIM it) = PERFORMANCE (again, a quick glance inside is all that's required)

SCAN!! I was taught ATTITUDE (~10%) - LOOKOUT (~85%) - PERFORMANCE (~5%) at 1FTS.
The RAAF now teaches A-L-A-P, i.e. an extra look at attitude.
Both scans work fine; the principle is to teach a regular and disciplined method of scanning.

Quite often I used the good ol' black suction cup covers to cover up the A.I.s when teaching GF in the mighty Parrot. It achieved the aim, i.e. got them to LOOK OUT THE FRONT.

If I thought the student was fixating on a particular performance instrument (ASI, ALT etc) I would cover it with my hand until I was satisfied the student had set an attitude, power and trimmed it.

[Howard Hughes]

Don't all pilots fly on attitude? Or am I confusing that with ego?

[NzCaptainAndrew]

VFR flying, my instructor taught me 80% outside, 20% inside. You fly using attitude - use the instruments to check. Kinda of like a VFR "scan"

[compressor stall]

Have a read of the Air France 447 crash report.

There would be another 300-odd people alive today if the concept of Power + Attitude = Performance was second nature to that crew.

It's fundamental.

[Homesick-Angel]

If a student Is making small jerky corrections to their attitude there's a fair chance the eyes are inside. The aircraft folder always served a good purpose to - 1 hit the student and - 2 block the instruments.

Students who are pushed towards p+a=p from the start end up with a much better fundamental ability to fly. Those who constantly reference the instruments struggle throughout. The performance check should be a 2-3 second scan at most once they have a handle in where to look.

You would be suprised how well you can tell if you are high or low in the circuit without an altimeter. Give it a try.

[learner001]

Attitude . . . ? Fly like a bird . . .

How sad . . .

I teach my students and even experienced pilots, every now and then, to fly our aeroplane 'like a bird...' Piper cub, Warrior, Cessna, 737 or A320 with a towel or other means covering the instruments . . .
Low level, in the circuit, or at FL 390 . . .

Some 'aces' however say this is: 'not a professional attitude' . . .

Nevertheless, I decided to stick to my 'teaching attitude' . . .

Kind regards, learner . . .

[triton140]

Originally Posted by Homesick-Angel

You would be suprised how well you can tell if you are high or low in the circuit without an altimeter. Give it a try.

Absolutely - you can get surprisingly close. Same goes for airspeed.

[compressor stall]

Absolutely - you can get surprisingly close. Same goes for airspeed.

Which is exactly when as an instructor you uncover the instruments and show the student how they have nailed the aircraft's performance by looking out the window. No better way than to confidence in the student.