Plane missing en route YCAB?
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What a very sad outcome. I didn't know Des but I've seen his plane before. He'd clearly touched a lot of people with his goodness and to all those people that are feeling so low right now, I guess we'd all do well to remember him for all that he was and be thankful to have had someone so passionate about aviation in our experience. The Des Porter's of this world bring colour and life to many, many people. Think of all those kids that that would have marvelled at that beautiful red Dragon. And all those older people whose hearts would have been warmed by the appearance of something so special from a bygone era. That he took an aircraft that had been associated with such family tragedy and turned it into a wonderful sight we've all been able to enjoy all these years is a testament to his determination to remember his father and his brother who perished in the crash in 1954.
I'm sure he, his wife and his best friends that have perished will be sorely missed.
Good work to the hundreds of people involved in the search. It was always going to be unlikely they'd be found alive and well; but at least they were found and this hasn't gone on for years like the NZ incident mentioned above or the Cessna VH-MDX that disappeared near the Barrington Tops in 1981 and has never been found.
I think what Slackie writes below is very true and I've had experience with his number 2 scenario as well. I personally think we all (us, CASA, AOPA, the industry) need to do so much more work on helping pilots strategise around making plans that involve taking passengers on cross-country trips over high ground VFR. I believe there's just so much more skill required on the whole about setting up fall-back options and briefing your passengers in advance that you may need to cancel a flight altogether and get them back days late (or that they may have to make their own way home on occasions). I can imagine some of the ways this trip up to Monto would have played out and some of the pressures Des would have been under, which on a beautiful day, wouldn't have been an issue, but on this day potentially added to this accident.
My deepest condolences to all the families impacted and people in the aviation community that knew Des and his wife well.
Ren
I'm sure he, his wife and his best friends that have perished will be sorely missed.
Good work to the hundreds of people involved in the search. It was always going to be unlikely they'd be found alive and well; but at least they were found and this hasn't gone on for years like the NZ incident mentioned above or the Cessna VH-MDX that disappeared near the Barrington Tops in 1981 and has never been found.
I think what Slackie writes below is very true and I've had experience with his number 2 scenario as well. I personally think we all (us, CASA, AOPA, the industry) need to do so much more work on helping pilots strategise around making plans that involve taking passengers on cross-country trips over high ground VFR. I believe there's just so much more skill required on the whole about setting up fall-back options and briefing your passengers in advance that you may need to cancel a flight altogether and get them back days late (or that they may have to make their own way home on occasions). I can imagine some of the ways this trip up to Monto would have played out and some of the pressures Des would have been under, which on a beautiful day, wouldn't have been an issue, but on this day potentially added to this accident.
My deepest condolences to all the families impacted and people in the aviation community that knew Des and his wife well.
Ren
The mobile tracking would have had to have come from the telco, the Dorniers would not be capable of tracking a non discrete digital emission and then triangulating it.
I only mention this for the inexperienced (or foolhardy) please dont flame me...add your tips if you wish
In your toolbox, if (heaven forbid) you ever get yourself in this position (in cloud, in a VFR aircraft, scared and disoriented) where your immediate future looks like a loss of control and a high speed spiral into the ground;
1. Select throttles to idle.
2. Slowly trim full nose up.
3. Let go of the yolk.
4. Keep a constant heading with your feet - the rudder.
And pray the you get visual before you hit the trees. Practice it at height in your light aircraft in VMC.
I see a compass in his cockpit another solution would have been to DR east to the ocean and let down slowly and carefully.
In your toolbox, if (heaven forbid) you ever get yourself in this position (in cloud, in a VFR aircraft, scared and disoriented) where your immediate future looks like a loss of control and a high speed spiral into the ground;
1. Select throttles to idle.
2. Slowly trim full nose up.
3. Let go of the yolk.
4. Keep a constant heading with your feet - the rudder.
And pray the you get visual before you hit the trees. Practice it at height in your light aircraft in VMC.
I see a compass in his cockpit another solution would have been to DR east to the ocean and let down slowly and carefully.
Last edited by ramble on; 3rd Oct 2012 at 08:47.
another solution would have been to DR east to the ocean and let down slowly and carefully.
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Only works if you have altitude to start with (which might have been lacking if he was trapped in a valley)
All the indications are that the impact point is in terrain sloping at around 35°-40°, and that the Dragon was doing a high RoC at substantial speed. The terrain is so steep, the SAR choppers couldn't land at the actual crash site.
(pic courtesy of Jack Tran/The Australian)
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Very sad outcome. Condolences to the relatives of all aboard.
Thanks to the searchers and technicians for their sterling efforts.
Thanks Slackie for the photo of the panel, had more instruments there than I had recalled (looked like a mounting for a GPS too), but the layout wouldn't have helped much while looking back and forth trying to get visual again.
Thanks to the searchers and technicians for their sterling efforts.
Thanks Slackie for the photo of the panel, had more instruments there than I had recalled (looked like a mounting for a GPS too), but the layout wouldn't have helped much while looking back and forth trying to get visual again.
and it looks like I was pretty close to spot-on with my projected scenario, that I posted in post #56, about 4 hrs before the wreckage was spotted.
All the indications are that the impact point is in terrain sloping at around 35°-40°, and that the Dragon was doing a high RoC at substantial speed. The terrain is so steep, the SAR choppers couldn't land at the actual crash site.
All the indications are that the impact point is in terrain sloping at around 35°-40°, and that the Dragon was doing a high RoC at substantial speed. The terrain is so steep, the SAR choppers couldn't land at the actual crash site.
Come on guys, give it a rest!
Dear God!!! Somewhere, children / friends / mates are still reeling from the news that there are going to be 6 empty seats at Xmas this year.
I see no need for a media outlet (or Pruner) to post a photo of the accident site while the occupents are still present.
One day, it could be your (or my) family......
Oh, and to those people speculating already about the cause? I realise you may have squillions of hours on this aircraft type / weather / location - a bit of respect, please. Would it kill you to keep your comments to yourself for a couple of weeks at least??
Another one of our community now flies with blue skies & tail winds....forever
I see no need for a media outlet (or Pruner) to post a photo of the accident site while the occupents are still present.
One day, it could be your (or my) family......
Oh, and to those people speculating already about the cause? I realise you may have squillions of hours on this aircraft type / weather / location - a bit of respect, please. Would it kill you to keep your comments to yourself for a couple of weeks at least??
Another one of our community now flies with blue skies & tail winds....forever
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Posting a photo from the Australian newspaper is not in bad taste and I'm sure many would disagree with you on that one. Millions have already seen it or will see it tomorrow.
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outnabout,
Some of their friends, me included, are in disbelief about how he found himself in that situation.
The accident happened right off my right wingtip, at about 30 miles to my west. I know what it was like at the time. It was awful on the ranges.I was in VMC.
If others, youngsters mainly can learn from this, all the better. We all have a fair idea what went wrong. The 178 seconds training video is proved once again.
As a friend of theirs, I find it almost impossible to believe they got sucked in. Makes me feel what hope do I have in this world when 3 of my mates this year from YCAB alone have died, and not one was a cowboy who you expected to crash an aeroplane. They were all conservative professionals in aviation.
When is a suitable time? 2 minutes, 2 hours? 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? 2 years? never? We need to talk some time.
The sad thing is none of these accidents are new. They are old, and repeated many times.
As Dora-9 said above,
Mates, John included.
"DITTO"
To add to Dora's post above, I feel like including this as a tribute to Des, Kath, John and Carol, (not sure if Les and Janice were there), but given you guys were just over my shoulder, and like so many events, you made it all possible and gave so much to so many, this song is for you. RIP my friends.
Some of their friends, me included, are in disbelief about how he found himself in that situation.
The accident happened right off my right wingtip, at about 30 miles to my west. I know what it was like at the time. It was awful on the ranges.I was in VMC.
If others, youngsters mainly can learn from this, all the better. We all have a fair idea what went wrong. The 178 seconds training video is proved once again.
As a friend of theirs, I find it almost impossible to believe they got sucked in. Makes me feel what hope do I have in this world when 3 of my mates this year from YCAB alone have died, and not one was a cowboy who you expected to crash an aeroplane. They were all conservative professionals in aviation.
When is a suitable time? 2 minutes, 2 hours? 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? 2 years? never? We need to talk some time.
The sad thing is none of these accidents are new. They are old, and repeated many times.
As Dora-9 said above,
RIP mate, it was a privilege to know you.
"DITTO"
To add to Dora's post above, I feel like including this as a tribute to Des, Kath, John and Carol, (not sure if Les and Janice were there), but given you guys were just over my shoulder, and like so many events, you made it all possible and gave so much to so many, this song is for you. RIP my friends.
There was a time when men were kind
When their voices were soft
And their words inviting
There was a time when love was blind
And the world was a song
And the song was exciting
There was a time
Then it all went wrong
I dreamed a dream in time gone by
When hope was high
And life worth living
I dreamed that love would never die
I dreamed that God would be forgiving
Then I was young and unafraid
And dreams were made and used and wasted
There was no ransom to be paid
No song unsung, no wine untasted
But the tigers come at night
With their voices soft as thunder
As they tear your hope apart
As they turn your dream to shame
He slept a summer by my side
He filled my days with endless wonder
He took my childhood in his stride
But he was gone when autumn came
And still I dream he'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather
I had a dream my life would be
So different from this hell I'm living
So different now from what it seemed
Now life has killed the dream I dreamed.
When their voices were soft
And their words inviting
There was a time when love was blind
And the world was a song
And the song was exciting
There was a time
Then it all went wrong
I dreamed a dream in time gone by
When hope was high
And life worth living
I dreamed that love would never die
I dreamed that God would be forgiving
Then I was young and unafraid
And dreams were made and used and wasted
There was no ransom to be paid
No song unsung, no wine untasted
But the tigers come at night
With their voices soft as thunder
As they tear your hope apart
As they turn your dream to shame
He slept a summer by my side
He filled my days with endless wonder
He took my childhood in his stride
But he was gone when autumn came
And still I dream he'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather
I had a dream my life would be
So different from this hell I'm living
So different now from what it seemed
Now life has killed the dream I dreamed.
First of all condolences to all friends and family of the pilot and pax. I couldn't begin to fully understand how hard this time must be.. But ..
A cornerstone of this site is the rumor mill and speculation. The fact that just one of us may survive out next marginal flight because of the speculation is the key, and in my opinion is one of the few truly useful aspects of the site..
If it were one of my friends or family and it may well be one day, I would stay right away from here until some time had passed.
A cornerstone of this site is the rumor mill and speculation. The fact that just one of us may survive out next marginal flight because of the speculation is the key, and in my opinion is one of the few truly useful aspects of the site..
If it were one of my friends or family and it may well be one day, I would stay right away from here until some time had passed.
I stand corrected, Jaba. Please accept my apologies.
I fail to see what publishing a photo of the crash site teaches us (ok, me) without a supporting set of facts to highlight the circumstances that caused this.
Once upon a time, I wouldve said wait for the ATSB report but since Norfolk Island & Capt Cleo, I have sincere doubts of how factual these are.
I fail to see what publishing a photo of the crash site teaches us (ok, me) without a supporting set of facts to highlight the circumstances that caused this.
Once upon a time, I wouldve said wait for the ATSB report but since Norfolk Island & Capt Cleo, I have sincere doubts of how factual these are.
Bad karma...
Dora 9. Beautiful air to air portrait of the pilot and his magnificent machine....alas.
Tragic that we will not see them again.
Posting of the crash site picture.. freely seen on TV.. should be a sober lesson for all us VFR folk to note carefully and digest. Would I do that? Could I do that?
As some circumstances prevail, who's to say what one might do under pressure, that may lead to a fatal outcome. How often have we read about it in the crash comics. There but for the grace of...etc.
One thing is for sure, when the wx craps out, better to be down here having a cold beer, than up there having a cold sweat.
RIP all.
Tragic that we will not see them again.
Posting of the crash site picture.. freely seen on TV.. should be a sober lesson for all us VFR folk to note carefully and digest. Would I do that? Could I do that?
As some circumstances prevail, who's to say what one might do under pressure, that may lead to a fatal outcome. How often have we read about it in the crash comics. There but for the grace of...etc.
One thing is for sure, when the wx craps out, better to be down here having a cold beer, than up there having a cold sweat.
RIP all.
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At my airport bar there is a photo-frame with words to the effect of:
The least experienced press on, whereas the more experienced turn back to join the most experienced whom never left the ground in the first place.
- Author unknown
The least experienced press on, whereas the more experienced turn back to join the most experienced whom never left the ground in the first place.
- Author unknown
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Pilots in that era could fly with a limited panel. Its modern pilots who have a problem
Psychophysiological entity
The ghost of his father
It's odd that he should want to build from parts of an aircraft that killed some of his family all those years ago. Maybe the aircraft meant much more to him because of that.
BBC News - Six dead in Australia vintage biplane crash
BBC News - Six dead in Australia vintage biplane crash
Having heard all the radio calls as it happened and Des' description as he was going, some of the speculation so far on here is so far off the mark, it reads more like the media.
morno
morno
The least experienced press on, whereas the more experienced turn back to join the most experienced whom never left the ground in the first place.
The two hours (or is it five?) needed on simulated IMC for the PPL is not enough to last you many years.
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