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Plane missing en route YCAB?

Old 3rd Oct 2012, 08:57
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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another solution would have been to DR east to the ocean and let down slowly and carefully.
Only works if you have altitude to start with (which might have been lacking if he was trapped in a valley).
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 10:08
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Only works if you have altitude to start with (which might have been lacking if he was trapped in a valley)
That appears to have been precisely his problem, and it looks like I was pretty close to spot-on with my projected scenario, that I posted in post #56, about 4 hrs before the wreckage was spotted.
All the indications are that the impact point is in terrain sloping at around 35°-40°, and that the Dragon was doing a high RoC at substantial speed. The terrain is so steep, the SAR choppers couldn't land at the actual crash site.



(pic courtesy of Jack Tran/The Australian)
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 10:16
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Very sad outcome. Condolences to the relatives of all aboard.
Thanks to the searchers and technicians for their sterling efforts.
Thanks Slackie for the photo of the panel, had more instruments there than I had recalled (looked like a mounting for a GPS too), but the layout wouldn't have helped much while looking back and forth trying to get visual again.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 11:35
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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and it looks like I was pretty close to spot-on with my projected scenario, that I posted in post #56, about 4 hrs before the wreckage was spotted.
All the indications are that the impact point is in terrain sloping at around 35°-40°, and that the Dragon was doing a high RoC at substantial speed. The terrain is so steep, the SAR choppers couldn't land at the actual crash site.
Truly amazing detective work from that one photo.

Come on guys, give it a rest!
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 11:36
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Dear God!!! Somewhere, children / friends / mates are still reeling from the news that there are going to be 6 empty seats at Xmas this year.

I see no need for a media outlet (or Pruner) to post a photo of the accident site while the occupents are still present.

One day, it could be your (or my) family......

Oh, and to those people speculating already about the cause? I realise you may have squillions of hours on this aircraft type / weather / location - a bit of respect, please. Would it kill you to keep your comments to yourself for a couple of weeks at least??

Another one of our community now flies with blue skies & tail winds....forever
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 12:00
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Posting a photo from the Australian newspaper is not in bad taste and I'm sure many would disagree with you on that one. Millions have already seen it or will see it tomorrow.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 12:17
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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outnabout,

Some of their friends, me included, are in disbelief about how he found himself in that situation.

The accident happened right off my right wingtip, at about 30 miles to my west. I know what it was like at the time. It was awful on the ranges.I was in VMC.

If others, youngsters mainly can learn from this, all the better. We all have a fair idea what went wrong. The 178 seconds training video is proved once again.

As a friend of theirs, I find it almost impossible to believe they got sucked in. Makes me feel what hope do I have in this world when 3 of my mates this year from YCAB alone have died, and not one was a cowboy who you expected to crash an aeroplane. They were all conservative professionals in aviation.

When is a suitable time? 2 minutes, 2 hours? 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? 2 years? never? We need to talk some time.

The sad thing is none of these accidents are new. They are old, and repeated many times.




As Dora-9 said above,
RIP mate, it was a privilege to know you.
Mates, John included.
"DITTO"

To add to Dora's post above, I feel like including this as a tribute to Des, Kath, John and Carol, (not sure if Les and Janice were there), but given you guys were just over my shoulder, and like so many events, you made it all possible and gave so much to so many, this song is for you. RIP my friends.

There was a time when men were kind
When their voices were soft
And their words inviting
There was a time when love was blind
And the world was a song
And the song was exciting
There was a time
Then it all went wrong

I dreamed a dream in time gone by
When hope was high
And life worth living
I dreamed that love would never die
I dreamed that God would be forgiving
Then I was young and unafraid
And dreams were made and used and wasted
There was no ransom to be paid
No song unsung, no wine untasted

But the tigers come at night
With their voices soft as thunder
As they tear your hope apart
As they turn your dream to shame

He slept a summer by my side
He filled my days with endless wonder
He took my childhood in his stride
But he was gone when autumn came

And still I dream he'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather

I had a dream my life would be
So different from this hell I'm living
So different now from what it seemed
Now life has killed the dream I dreamed.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 12:28
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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First of all condolences to all friends and family of the pilot and pax. I couldn't begin to fully understand how hard this time must be.. But ..

A cornerstone of this site is the rumor mill and speculation. The fact that just one of us may survive out next marginal flight because of the speculation is the key, and in my opinion is one of the few truly useful aspects of the site..

If it were one of my friends or family and it may well be one day, I would stay right away from here until some time had passed.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 12:30
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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I stand corrected, Jaba. Please accept my apologies.

I fail to see what publishing a photo of the crash site teaches us (ok, me) without a supporting set of facts to highlight the circumstances that caused this.

Once upon a time, I wouldve said wait for the ATSB report but since Norfolk Island & Capt Cleo, I have sincere doubts of how factual these are.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 12:57
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Bad karma...

Dora 9. Beautiful air to air portrait of the pilot and his magnificent machine....alas.
Tragic that we will not see them again.

Posting of the crash site picture.. freely seen on TV.. should be a sober lesson for all us VFR folk to note carefully and digest. Would I do that? Could I do that?
As some circumstances prevail, who's to say what one might do under pressure, that may lead to a fatal outcome. How often have we read about it in the crash comics. There but for the grace of...etc.

One thing is for sure, when the wx craps out, better to be down here having a cold beer, than up there having a cold sweat.

RIP all.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 13:58
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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At my airport bar there is a photo-frame with words to the effect of:

The least experienced press on, whereas the more experienced turn back to join the most experienced whom never left the ground in the first place.

- Author unknown
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 15:05
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Pilots in that era could fly with a limited panel. Its modern pilots who have a problem
I fully agree. Looking at the instrument panel layout, the Dragon did have an AH as well as other flight instruments including a large Turn and Slip Indicator. . Enough to keep you alive in cloud or poor visibility if you were in current practice. The two hours (or is it five?) needed on simulated IMC for the PPL is not enough to last you many years. PPL pilots need to understand they must keep themselves current on basic instrument flying skills either with an instructor in a real aircraft or in a synthetic trainer.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 16:26
  #93 (permalink)  
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The ghost of his father

It's odd that he should want to build from parts of an aircraft that killed some of his family all those years ago. Maybe the aircraft meant much more to him because of that.



BBC News - Six dead in Australia vintage biplane crash
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 17:14
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Having heard all the radio calls as it happened and Des' description as he was going, some of the speculation so far on here is so far off the mark, it reads more like the media.

morno
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 20:23
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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The least experienced press on, whereas the more experienced turn back to join the most experienced whom never left the ground in the first place.
Great quote. It should be printed on the cover of every ppl and cpl licence issued.
The two hours (or is it five?) needed on simulated IMC for the PPL is not enough to last you many years.
Dead right. It's no where near enough to be able to cope with inadvertant flight into IMC a few years later. I don´t think increasing it is the answer though. Better decision making could be achieved by increasing awareness of how relentlessly repetitive these crashes are. A bi annual written exam on the circumstances of accidents like this would help and most ppls would actually enjoy studying for it. Make it compulsory but free of charge.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 20:26
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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The ghost of his father

Up to 15 helicopters search for missing DH84 Dragon plane between Kingaroy and Maleny | The Courier-Mail
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 20:42
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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I think it may have been the first aircraft that his father crashed that was rebuilt.

The second aircraft that his father crashed which ultimately took his father and brother was not rebuilt.

Aviation is a very fickle and unforgiving companion!
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 21:31
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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It is always a sad, raw day when we loose one of the tribe; particularly when it's one of the rare breed who inspired; lived, breathed and loved flight, in all it's forms.

There are a couple of issues which we may discuss arising from the incident without offending and make good use of the PPRuNe voice.

1) Crash comic – the CC used to lay about in aero clubs, old articles rehashed, discussed and learned from. I can't put a number on it, but at least once a year there would be a reminder "I learned about flying from that" which discussed the perils of high performance weather v low performance aircraft, VFR into IMC, scud running, instrument flying for the out of practice etc. etc. They may not have prevented this accident, but they may have influenced someone else. Perhaps we need that kind of education to be resurrected.

If history were taught in the form of stories, it would never be forgotten. Kipling.
2) Once again, it took for ever to locate the site. Perhaps we need to focus on ways and means to speed up the process. Mention fixed ELT in some bars and you'll loose a limb, mention portable ELT and a punch up is likely: Spider tracks and other proprietary systems seem to work well. Now I don't begrudge the cost of a SAR operation, at all. Just wish we could agree and sort out some system which could 'quickly' locate a missing aircraft, reduce the cost and risk to SAR operations; without years of debate and 47 pages of legislation.

It's bad enough that we loose folks: the waiting for resolution must qualify as at least one of the hells on earth. Sincere condolences to the family and friends.

Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. C.S. Lewis.

Last edited by Kharon; 3rd Oct 2012 at 21:36. Reason: Forgot old Rudyard
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 22:24
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Having heard all the radio calls as it happened and Des' description as he was going, some of the speculation so far on here is so far off the mark, it reads more like the media.

morno
The transcript may be the most valuable learning tool to come out of this, particularly if it shed any light on whether the weather closed in behind him.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 22:49
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing was heard after he was asked to change frequency, with radio's down low and having to take his eyes off the instruments that might have been too much to ask. Sounds like he was in serious trouble anyway with another unwanted task too much.
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