Counselling after an accident or incident
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Counselling after an accident or incident
I have a friend involved in a no fault fairly significant aviation incident. It has understandably shaken the guy up somewhat and he needs some assistance to "get back on the bike". Would be very appreciative if anybody has any reccommendations of a good person to go and see. Obviouly somebody along the lines of a trauma counsellor or something similar. I am quite surprised how difficult it appears to find this sort of assistance. Someone with experience dealing with pilots would, no doubt, be advantageous. Look forward to any suggestions. Cheers. Glen.
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G'day Glen,
Maybe call the Feds? They'd have acted as a pilot rep for pilots in aviation incidents/accidents. Maybe they'd have contact details for professional counsellors with aviation experience.
DIVOSH!
Maybe call the Feds? They'd have acted as a pilot rep for pilots in aviation incidents/accidents. Maybe they'd have contact details for professional counsellors with aviation experience.
DIVOSH!
If he works for a company then they should have an employee assistance program for this type of thing.
It's free and part of your employment package.
If he works outside of aviation he will no doubt have this as part of his employment also.
It's free and part of your employment package.
If he works outside of aviation he will no doubt have this as part of his employment also.
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Counselling
First of all, if your friend is asking whether counselling support is needed or not, then the fact he is questioning means the answer is probably Yes.
Another thing you can do for him is be available and just Listen! Listening quietly and having non-judgemental conversations can help enormously - perhaps a long walk around the airfield perimeter with him...
Police and Firefighters are often involved in less than cheerful incidents where some support is needed for victims, and sometimes themselves. A discussion with some of the older Jacks and Jills in emergency services, about how they deal with post-traumatic stresses and get back on the bike may help.
Ask around the Aero Club CFIs. Senior experienced instructors have probably seen their fair share of close calls, misadventures and dramas - and had to help students and instructor colleagues deal with the consequences.
If there is serious post-traumatic stress, then the emergency services folks may be able to put you onto professionals in your community who can help with that. Chaplains, Ministers, ditto. Look up Pyschologists in your yellow pages - you should find some with trauma counselling and PTS services offered. His DAME may know of a good one.
With regard to getting back into the air; some careful reflection with an instructor is probably needed, with a 'Low Pressure' plan to regain confidence. You might consider him having his first flight as a 'no pressure' flight, purely for fun, with a trusted friend, just getting back "home" in the sky, enjoying what we want to be a pleasant environment.
Good luck to you both...
Another thing you can do for him is be available and just Listen! Listening quietly and having non-judgemental conversations can help enormously - perhaps a long walk around the airfield perimeter with him...
Police and Firefighters are often involved in less than cheerful incidents where some support is needed for victims, and sometimes themselves. A discussion with some of the older Jacks and Jills in emergency services, about how they deal with post-traumatic stresses and get back on the bike may help.
Ask around the Aero Club CFIs. Senior experienced instructors have probably seen their fair share of close calls, misadventures and dramas - and had to help students and instructor colleagues deal with the consequences.
If there is serious post-traumatic stress, then the emergency services folks may be able to put you onto professionals in your community who can help with that. Chaplains, Ministers, ditto. Look up Pyschologists in your yellow pages - you should find some with trauma counselling and PTS services offered. His DAME may know of a good one.
With regard to getting back into the air; some careful reflection with an instructor is probably needed, with a 'Low Pressure' plan to regain confidence. You might consider him having his first flight as a 'no pressure' flight, purely for fun, with a trusted friend, just getting back "home" in the sky, enjoying what we want to be a pleasant environment.
Good luck to you both...
Last edited by Bunyan Wingnut; 10th Sep 2012 at 03:03. Reason: edit content
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Pilot Friend
The AFAP used to have members nominated as pilot friends. They were trained by the AFAP and not only served to help the pilot/s involved in an incident to come to terms to what happened but also to act as a buffer between the pilot/s and media, employer and investigators etc. I did this once with a fellow that was captain of an aircraft that was written off but recovered intact. It was not his fault. I went with him to an interview with the operator and as he felt comfortable that he was OK he decided he didn't need me with a consequent interview with the customer. I insisted on accompanying him but as the call was his he ended up going by himself. The customer was looking for blood, got together with the employer and hung him out to dry. He was unemployed for 3 years until an independent investigation of his and other similar accidents vindicated him.
Even if he is not an AFAP member I would encourage him to contact them and ask for assistance.
Even if he is not an AFAP member I would encourage him to contact them and ask for assistance.
If for no other reason than this,you should not be flying commercially without being a member of the union.It is an insurance policy that gives you assistance and protection in a time of need.
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Would be very appreciative if anybody has any reccommendations of a good person to go and see. Obviouly somebody along the lines of a trauma counsellor or something similar.
Just a thought, but their Queensland counterparts know of several good local psychs who routinely deal with paramedics, so the Victorian mob can probably recommend someone in Melbourne who's good.
The Ambulance Employees Association of Victoria
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 10th Sep 2012 at 16:12.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I am a support member of Stiftung Mayday - Impressum
(The English version is down).
They do Critical Incident Stress Management support.
Email them, they do speak English very well - but don't use Australian slang, that might be beyond them.
(The English version is down).
They do Critical Incident Stress Management support.
Email them, they do speak English very well - but don't use Australian slang, that might be beyond them.
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In the current Flight Safety digest there is an article on QF32 which mentions an aviation psychologist by name, whom the pilot of QF32 visited.
The editor may be able to pass on his contact details.
The editor may be able to pass on his contact details.
Glen, stand your mate up and look him in the eye and tell him "get over it"
Before you all start abusing Aussie Bob, consider this: All WW1, WW2, and Viet vets were told exactly this and it worked for most. Personally, I have seen friends smashed to bits in road crashes (first on the scene) and walked away from a major air crash where another was critically injured.
"Get over it" can be good advice. Counseling is a new age idea best suited to weak minds.
Before you all start abusing Aussie Bob, consider this: All WW1, WW2, and Viet vets were told exactly this and it worked for most. Personally, I have seen friends smashed to bits in road crashes (first on the scene) and walked away from a major air crash where another was critically injured.
"Get over it" can be good advice. Counseling is a new age idea best suited to weak minds.
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With regard to getting back into the air; some careful reflection with an instructor is probably needed, with a 'Low Pressure' plan to regain confidence
Aussie Bob, it's attitudes like yours that cause men who are suffering depression to avoid seeking help for fear of appearing weak. There may well have been wartime vets who managed to get through devastating emotional trauma without outside help, there were also a hell of lot who DIDN'T, have you never heard of shell shock? Has it occurred to you that it is perhaps because of the experiences of others who have had little to no support after a traumatic experience that we now make those services available.
Getting "back on the horse" is something that is good for kids when they've fallen off their new bike while riding down the driveway. It is something that was necessary during wartime because they were desperately short of pilots and couldn't afford to have physically capable people sitting idle on the ground. We don't have those pressures at the moment. Take a look around, as far as I can tell we are not at war.
Most people don't ask for help until it is too late. If someone is asking for help, then chances are they needed it months ago. Telling them to "get over it" is irresponsible.
Rant over.
Getting "back on the horse" is something that is good for kids when they've fallen off their new bike while riding down the driveway. It is something that was necessary during wartime because they were desperately short of pilots and couldn't afford to have physically capable people sitting idle on the ground. We don't have those pressures at the moment. Take a look around, as far as I can tell we are not at war.
Most people don't ask for help until it is too late. If someone is asking for help, then chances are they needed it months ago. Telling them to "get over it" is irresponsible.
Rant over.
Could also try your GP or DAME. They will in most cases be able to refer you to someone local for immediate help, and would probably have the contacts to find someone aviation specific if the avenues above don't pan out.
In most cases people just need a few sessions to 'talk it out' and get things off their chest to someone outside the incident. A good program for PTSD (if diagnosed) will always let the patient opt back in at a later date should any other issues arise (for example, a later beareavement or relationship problem may in some cases trigger off the same anxiety as the initial incident)
You could also try googling the Centre for Clinical Interventions, they have some online workbooks designed to be used in conjunction with counselling if anxiety is an ongoing issue.
All the best for your friend.
In most cases people just need a few sessions to 'talk it out' and get things off their chest to someone outside the incident. A good program for PTSD (if diagnosed) will always let the patient opt back in at a later date should any other issues arise (for example, a later beareavement or relationship problem may in some cases trigger off the same anxiety as the initial incident)
You could also try googling the Centre for Clinical Interventions, they have some online workbooks designed to be used in conjunction with counselling if anxiety is an ongoing issue.
All the best for your friend.
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All WW1, WW2, and Viet vets were told exactly this and it worked for most.
Soldiers who fought in the first and second world war were often haunted by their experiences. I'm sure many would have benefited from some sort of counselling. Don't know if I'd be so quick to throw around Vietnam vets in that context either. I personally know several who are still seeing counsellors today.
Some people just don't deal with massive amounts of stress as well as other people. This does not make them weak minded or lacking character or of being cowards.
Aussie Bob - ever had a spot you worried was skin cancer, and not just a mole?
You spend so much time, not worrying about the problem, but about what the consequences to a possible problem MAY be, and all of the combinations - keeps you up at night.
One professional, who can look at the spot, and say - this is definitely not cancer because [insert technical reason here]. Or even - this IS cancer because [insert technical reason here] - and THIS is what we can do about it. Takes all that "extra" worry away, and allows you to concentrate on the problem - that reduces the stress from "a thousand things which may go wrong" to just dealing with the issue (if there is one) at hand.
So - with stress, especially incident related stress and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) the same applies. Humans don't react logically - you feel guilty when logic tells you you should feel proud. You giggle when logic tells you you should cry (ever done that at a funeral?), and so on, and so on.
To have a professional, who has spent time examining the reams of studies on this behaviour, simply listen to what you are feeling and worrying about - and then tell you what is "normal" (even when it seems stupid) and what is not is what counselling is about. It allows you to stop worrying about the weird stuff which keeps you up at night (because studies tell you it's normal) and concentrate on the problem. It helps.
It speeds up the "dealing with it" process from the years it took the WW2 boys to months.
You spend so much time, not worrying about the problem, but about what the consequences to a possible problem MAY be, and all of the combinations - keeps you up at night.
One professional, who can look at the spot, and say - this is definitely not cancer because [insert technical reason here]. Or even - this IS cancer because [insert technical reason here] - and THIS is what we can do about it. Takes all that "extra" worry away, and allows you to concentrate on the problem - that reduces the stress from "a thousand things which may go wrong" to just dealing with the issue (if there is one) at hand.
So - with stress, especially incident related stress and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) the same applies. Humans don't react logically - you feel guilty when logic tells you you should feel proud. You giggle when logic tells you you should cry (ever done that at a funeral?), and so on, and so on.
To have a professional, who has spent time examining the reams of studies on this behaviour, simply listen to what you are feeling and worrying about - and then tell you what is "normal" (even when it seems stupid) and what is not is what counselling is about. It allows you to stop worrying about the weird stuff which keeps you up at night (because studies tell you it's normal) and concentrate on the problem. It helps.
It speeds up the "dealing with it" process from the years it took the WW2 boys to months.
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Some truth:
In what Aussie Bob says:
However, we are all different, and scenarios are different, Ambo drivers on the front line see all sorts of stuff, and they deal with it amongst themselves, as do the military:
However, even seasoned Ambos, and seasoned battle experienced soldiers have and will continue to crack up, in most cases it is when the event has become personal, eg: the Ambo knows the little kid from next door, he is picking up in bits, the soldier all of a sudden has an enemy that has taken an personal & individual interest in "Him" has him targeted:
If this fellow has had a significant trauma, my advice is to go and see a military trauma specialist, dont bother with the civies, they are ill equipped to deal with such:
If he is an "EMOTIONAL" mess, dont let him get back in the machine, ask him for his licenses, you will be doing him a huge favor, but go the distance and let him talk:
He will end up solving the issue himself:
If he does nothing it can manifest in years down the track:
All the best:
H/Snort:
However, we are all different, and scenarios are different, Ambo drivers on the front line see all sorts of stuff, and they deal with it amongst themselves, as do the military:
However, even seasoned Ambos, and seasoned battle experienced soldiers have and will continue to crack up, in most cases it is when the event has become personal, eg: the Ambo knows the little kid from next door, he is picking up in bits, the soldier all of a sudden has an enemy that has taken an personal & individual interest in "Him" has him targeted:
If this fellow has had a significant trauma, my advice is to go and see a military trauma specialist, dont bother with the civies, they are ill equipped to deal with such:
If he is an "EMOTIONAL" mess, dont let him get back in the machine, ask him for his licenses, you will be doing him a huge favor, but go the distance and let him talk:
He will end up solving the issue himself:
If he does nothing it can manifest in years down the track:
All the best:
H/Snort: