Radio Calls in Oz
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Radio Calls in Oz
Hi Guys
I am from the UK and find the variations in Oz slightly confusing. I'm struggling to find a definitive document like CAP 413. I have checked the AIP and various VFR CTAF documents, but I am constantly told Some of my calls are non-standard, yet I can't find what the exact standard is!! I assume Oz is ICAO, with local variations. Could somebody please give me a reference that I could use?? A CAAP would be good.
Navoff
I am from the UK and find the variations in Oz slightly confusing. I'm struggling to find a definitive document like CAP 413. I have checked the AIP and various VFR CTAF documents, but I am constantly told Some of my calls are non-standard, yet I can't find what the exact standard is!! I assume Oz is ICAO, with local variations. Could somebody please give me a reference that I could use?? A CAAP would be good.
Navoff
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Listen to the rest! (When in Rome do as the Romans do)
The AIP in the good ole days, published standard phraseology from engine start to shutdown in a logical sequence. Now a days it's a hoth potch affair, difficult to follow admittedly, but not impossible. KNow what needs to be read back and stick to that, DON'T try reading everything back in the hope of capturing the required bits.
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Good luck Navoff. Not only have you come to a very non standard ICAO country, but one which is still stuck in the mentality of aviation ruled from the public service. You will not find the service you get from the CAA at gatwick. A CAAP would be lovely on many things, but hat wold make scared people accountable.
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Thanks for your responses, it pretty much sums up my experience of radios in Oz. I have read the AIP and read the CASA VFR documents, but still find some calls I hear regularly, missing.
Another question, why don't we use the phrase "runway vacated" at CTAFs as opposed to "landed, clear of all runways"?
Navoff
Another question, why don't we use the phrase "runway vacated" at CTAFs as opposed to "landed, clear of all runways"?
Navoff
Last edited by navoff; 9th Sep 2012 at 05:23.
Navoff,
The answer to your last question ----- because that would be too simple and obvious.
One thing you will need to do is have a look at CAR 166, about operations around non-controlled aerodromes ---- which is most aerodromes in Australia --- and download or get a copy of the little book CASA publishes on the subject.
Even a simple position report does not follow the recommendations of Annex 10, Vol 11, or PANS/RAC 4444.
With one small exception (in UK - not Australia) the readback requirements are the same as CAP 413. If you stick to good UK (which is ICAO --- with only a very small number of differences filed with ICAO) radio practice, plus the requirements of CAR 166, you won't go too far wrong.
Beware of the strange idea that: " The faster you talk, the more professional you you are doubtless being". Don't accept the "invitation" of some "professional" pilots to indulge in "pilot arranged separation' --- do it yourself ATC, but stick to the recommendations for exchanging traffic information.
The trouble with "do it yourself" ATC is the mindset becomes that the participating aircraft are the only aircraft in the area. You do not have to give way to "larger" aircraft, the only aircraft that have a priority in Class G airspace are aircraft experiencing an emergency, and it is the right thing to do to give way to the RFDS/Air Ambulance. Beware of "larger" aircraft ignoring CAR 166 and "smaller" aircraft in the circuit . There are far too many pilots who thing the operating $$$ per hour establishes the priority for airspace or runway sequence.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Get the CASA books published for each capital city secondary airport, and read the instructions for the "Australian" so called Class D, the treatment of D as quasi C, with non-ICAO clearance requirements.
The answer to your last question ----- because that would be too simple and obvious.
One thing you will need to do is have a look at CAR 166, about operations around non-controlled aerodromes ---- which is most aerodromes in Australia --- and download or get a copy of the little book CASA publishes on the subject.
Even a simple position report does not follow the recommendations of Annex 10, Vol 11, or PANS/RAC 4444.
With one small exception (in UK - not Australia) the readback requirements are the same as CAP 413. If you stick to good UK (which is ICAO --- with only a very small number of differences filed with ICAO) radio practice, plus the requirements of CAR 166, you won't go too far wrong.
Beware of the strange idea that: " The faster you talk, the more professional you you are doubtless being". Don't accept the "invitation" of some "professional" pilots to indulge in "pilot arranged separation' --- do it yourself ATC, but stick to the recommendations for exchanging traffic information.
The trouble with "do it yourself" ATC is the mindset becomes that the participating aircraft are the only aircraft in the area. You do not have to give way to "larger" aircraft, the only aircraft that have a priority in Class G airspace are aircraft experiencing an emergency, and it is the right thing to do to give way to the RFDS/Air Ambulance. Beware of "larger" aircraft ignoring CAR 166 and "smaller" aircraft in the circuit . There are far too many pilots who thing the operating $$$ per hour establishes the priority for airspace or runway sequence.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Get the CASA books published for each capital city secondary airport, and read the instructions for the "Australian" so called Class D, the treatment of D as quasi C, with non-ICAO clearance requirements.
Last edited by LeadSled; 9th Sep 2012 at 07:28.
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And for goodness sake don't clog up the airwaves with Gooday, cheerio, have a good one, good morning, afternoon, evening and good night. USA and UK radio transmissions are full of this bulls*t. And don't read everything back like they do overseas..
Clear of the runway is not a mandatory call. It's a waste of radio time unless it's somewhere like Toowoomba where either end can't see each one another.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
UK the bastion of all that is good with R/T?
UK "Pass your message"
Rest of world "Go ahead"
UK "When established on the localiser, cleared to descend with the glide path"
ROW "Cleared ILS"
There are some good bits
UK "After the landing traffic, line up xxx"
ROW "Behind the landing traffic, line up and wait behind"
UK "Pass your message"
Rest of world "Go ahead"
UK "When established on the localiser, cleared to descend with the glide path"
ROW "Cleared ILS"
There are some good bits
UK "After the landing traffic, line up xxx"
ROW "Behind the landing traffic, line up and wait behind"
.
Heard in the US -
ATC - "Contact 121.75"
US Reply "Roger 21 and three quarters"
ATC - "Contact 121.75"
US Reply "Roger 21 and three quarters"
Melbourne Departures United 123 airborne through one point five for five....
short flights long nights
So are the US controllers
"ABC 123 when vacacted call the ground on point niner, cheers". It took me a while to figure out he was refering to the ground freq of 121.9!!
"ABC 123 when vacacted call the ground on point niner, cheers". It took me a while to figure out he was refering to the ground freq of 121.9!!
UK the bastion of all that is good with R/T?
And I think UK ATC is now able to clear for an ILS approach.
The pilot who was told to go ahead and promptly taxied, took off and flew to his destination has got a lot to answer for. Although sounding a bit odd, at least "pass your message" gets the intention across rather than the Australian solution of merely responding with the aircraft callsign!
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Yes.............'go ahead' is now strictly forbidden, I just say 'make my day' instead.
Mate, just make sh!t up and read every single thing back, I mean everything. Because if you read everything back you are guaranteed to have read what's required back in amongst all the tripe
Trust me, it's not a reflection of your professionalism to make sh!t up and read everything back. It simply congests the airwaves and makes us all sound far busier than we really are therefore sounding more important too!
In summary, make sh!t up and read everything back and you should be right
Mate, just make sh!t up and read every single thing back, I mean everything. Because if you read everything back you are guaranteed to have read what's required back in amongst all the tripe
Trust me, it's not a reflection of your professionalism to make sh!t up and read everything back. It simply congests the airwaves and makes us all sound far busier than we really are
therefore sounding more important too!In summary, make sh!t up and read everything back and you should be right
Just don't ever use the word "underSTAND" as a prefix to any readback! I once flew with a yank co-pilot in a foreign country who acknowledged everything with "understand....." The problem was that his inflexion made it sound like a question, so the controller then repeated the whole thing. It was a bit like "roger, Roger" in that movie.
He did it once too often, and after repeated warnings that if he said it one more time I would hit him, I did indeed punch his lights out. The one and only time I ever resorted to violence as an adult I hasten to add. Tony Abbott punched a wall didn't he?
Being the foreign country that it was, the punchee would have had no hope of pressing an assault charge (I am not that silly!).
UnderSTANDably, when we landed he quit on the spot.
He did it once too often, and after repeated warnings that if he said it one more time I would hit him, I did indeed punch his lights out. The one and only time I ever resorted to violence as an adult I hasten to add. Tony Abbott punched a wall didn't he?
Being the foreign country that it was, the punchee would have had no hope of pressing an assault charge (I am not that silly!).
UnderSTANDably, when we landed he quit on the spot.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 11th Sep 2012 at 02:07.
He did it once too often, and after repeated warnngs that if he said it one more time I would hit him, I did indeed punch his lights out.
An early version of CRM: A mate of mine who joined BA as a junior Second Officer once described himself as the Captain's sexual advisor: as in "when I want your xxxxing advice I will ask for it".
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 11th Sep 2012 at 02:10.