Australian Aviation mag: Are our kids falling out of love with careers in aviatio
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Australian Aviation mag: Are our kids falling out of love with careers in aviatio
The September 2012 edition of Australian Aviation includes a great article titled "No Wonder - Are kids falling out of love with careers in aviation?" by Jim Carden.
The article was first published on the Australian Aviation website on 6 August and includes a bunch of reader's comments.
Whilst I'm not a 'kid', I've recently been spending a lot of time researching and contemplating whether 'chasing the dream' at age 30 would be a good or stupid decision. A few weeks ago I started a thread called "Zero hours to RPT pilot within 5 years?" and I received quite a few really informative public and private replies from pprune members.
Anyway, I would like to reproduce the online comment I submitted yesterday...Someone out there might get something out of it....
Buzz says:
September 5, 2012 at 1:36 pm
The sorry state of pilot remuneration in GA and the regional carriers is simply a result of economics, demographics and social trends in Australia.
Australia is a very wealthy nation. In 2009/10 the ABS conducted a very detailed study into levels of household wealth. Even back in 2009/10 the median Australian household had amassed $426,000 of wealth and the mean household held $720,000.
62% of private wealth in Australia is held by the top quintile (20%) of households, with an average wealth of $2,223,000. Similarly, in 2009/10 the average household in the top quintile brought in gross annual income of $205,036.
Flying training for recreational or professional purposes has never been an egalitarian pursuit, however air transport operators made the strategic decision around a decade ago to source as many young pilots as possible from the high wealth, high income households described above. Operators knew that balance sheets would look a lot better if the individual could be forced wear as many training and development costs as possible and be paid on par with earthbound employees well into their flying career. They’ve achieved this objective with great success.
Airlines take great delight in sourcing cadets from well to do families because they know their salary will effectively serve as ‘play money’ for the first 10 years of their flying career. How the cadet’s family stumps up the exorbitant course fees is irrelevant – The problem lies with ‘wet behind the ears’ cadets having absolutely no comprehension of the value of money, thinking that FO remuneration below the national average income, after having dropped $100,000-$200,000 on their training, is an acceptable return on investment.
Step down the food chain from cadet schemes to GA operators and regional carriers – They’re able to pay early to mid-career pilots a pittance because they know a significant proportion of them are able to supplement their low income with that of their partner and/or handouts from the bank of mum and dad and/or inheritances. Job applicants whose CV suggests that their initial flight training and living expenses were paid for by someone else are exactly what the recruiters, hiring managers and accountants are looking for.
Australian school leavers and university graduates from an average socioeconomic background aren’t stupid. They know they face one of the most expensive residential property markets in the world and that the cost of living in Australia will only continue to spiral upwards. They do the sums for how much flying training will cost and how long it will take, their remuneration prospects in the civil aviation industry, the likelihood of making it all the way to a major airline and the likelihood of maintaining long-term employment in what is widely-recognised as a volatile industry with an uncertain future. Many potentially very capable pilots discard the option of a flying career without a lot of umming and ahhing. They know that in other vocations and industries they will make a good or excellent financial, professional and lifestyle return on their investment within half a decade.
Sadly, aspiring pilots who weren’t born with a silver spoon and take on debt to fund their flying training or endorsements have very little appreciation of what’s involved in paying down several tens of thousands of dollars of debt early in their career. Student debt is a sensible and worthwhile personal investment in fields like health, education, law, engineering, business and the trades, however in the world of aviation there’s no hiding that it’s an enormous gamble. Once qualified to fly, those with large debts will happily accept the crumbs from the table to keep the bank manager at bay and to cover their basic living expenses.
Some personal experiences/opinions:
I studied Aviation Management at university in the early to mid 2000s. Those of us in the Management Stream had to achieve a UAI cut off score in the 80s to be accepted into the degree program. On the other hand, the ‘rich kids of leisure’ of the Flying Stream were predominately selected based on their family’s ability to pay upfront or via biannual instalments. Most of the ‘rich kids of leisure’ had never worked a casual or part-time job in their life, and all of them were living the good life throughout university on their parent’s nickel.
In terms of effort and attitude the Flying Stream students generally fell into one of two categories: (1) The ‘model’ students who had an appreciation of the amazing opportunity they had been afforded. They approached their flying training in a professional manner and did their best when on campus for their academic studies. Several years on, some of them have made it into the RHS of a turboprop or jet, some are still flying bug-smashers and the rest have given up the dream altogether. (2) The second category was the spoilt brats who were half-hearted, naïve, mucked around and completely blew their opportunity to capitalise on their fortunate position. I’m pretty sure they all exited the aviation industry once they realised they were still years away from a well paying gig with a major airline.
Personally, I’ve always wanted to fly, however for a range of rational and irrational reasons I’ve suppressed the flying bug for many many years. My non-flying career has allowed me to pay off my first home with my partner before the age of 30, build a pretty good superannuation balance and enjoy a debt-free lifestyle going forward. Unlike the life of a pilot I’ve never had to work shiftwork, my weekends are my own and my employers have paid for my postgraduate study and lots of professional development opportunities. Unfortunately though, I’ve not had all the great experiences of learning to fly and making a living tearing around the skies.
I’m currently facing the high-stakes decision of whether I should ‘chase the dream’ in my thirties, fully aware of the sorry state of the aviation industry. Essentially, I have four options: (1) join the likes of the silver spoon cadets (2) join the ‘rich kids of leisure’ on a university flying program (3) join the family/debt/self-funded flyers making their way through GA and regional carriers (4) stick with my desk-bound job, get my PPL and happily fly something sporty on the weekend and treat aviation purely as a leisure pursuit.
I wish the small minority of self-funded aspiring pilots all the very best in their flying careers. You’re fighting an uphill battle but if you achieve your goals the victory will be all yours…
The article was first published on the Australian Aviation website on 6 August and includes a bunch of reader's comments.
Whilst I'm not a 'kid', I've recently been spending a lot of time researching and contemplating whether 'chasing the dream' at age 30 would be a good or stupid decision. A few weeks ago I started a thread called "Zero hours to RPT pilot within 5 years?" and I received quite a few really informative public and private replies from pprune members.
Anyway, I would like to reproduce the online comment I submitted yesterday...Someone out there might get something out of it....
Buzz says:
September 5, 2012 at 1:36 pm
The sorry state of pilot remuneration in GA and the regional carriers is simply a result of economics, demographics and social trends in Australia.
Australia is a very wealthy nation. In 2009/10 the ABS conducted a very detailed study into levels of household wealth. Even back in 2009/10 the median Australian household had amassed $426,000 of wealth and the mean household held $720,000.
62% of private wealth in Australia is held by the top quintile (20%) of households, with an average wealth of $2,223,000. Similarly, in 2009/10 the average household in the top quintile brought in gross annual income of $205,036.
Flying training for recreational or professional purposes has never been an egalitarian pursuit, however air transport operators made the strategic decision around a decade ago to source as many young pilots as possible from the high wealth, high income households described above. Operators knew that balance sheets would look a lot better if the individual could be forced wear as many training and development costs as possible and be paid on par with earthbound employees well into their flying career. They’ve achieved this objective with great success.
Airlines take great delight in sourcing cadets from well to do families because they know their salary will effectively serve as ‘play money’ for the first 10 years of their flying career. How the cadet’s family stumps up the exorbitant course fees is irrelevant – The problem lies with ‘wet behind the ears’ cadets having absolutely no comprehension of the value of money, thinking that FO remuneration below the national average income, after having dropped $100,000-$200,000 on their training, is an acceptable return on investment.
Step down the food chain from cadet schemes to GA operators and regional carriers – They’re able to pay early to mid-career pilots a pittance because they know a significant proportion of them are able to supplement their low income with that of their partner and/or handouts from the bank of mum and dad and/or inheritances. Job applicants whose CV suggests that their initial flight training and living expenses were paid for by someone else are exactly what the recruiters, hiring managers and accountants are looking for.
Australian school leavers and university graduates from an average socioeconomic background aren’t stupid. They know they face one of the most expensive residential property markets in the world and that the cost of living in Australia will only continue to spiral upwards. They do the sums for how much flying training will cost and how long it will take, their remuneration prospects in the civil aviation industry, the likelihood of making it all the way to a major airline and the likelihood of maintaining long-term employment in what is widely-recognised as a volatile industry with an uncertain future. Many potentially very capable pilots discard the option of a flying career without a lot of umming and ahhing. They know that in other vocations and industries they will make a good or excellent financial, professional and lifestyle return on their investment within half a decade.
Sadly, aspiring pilots who weren’t born with a silver spoon and take on debt to fund their flying training or endorsements have very little appreciation of what’s involved in paying down several tens of thousands of dollars of debt early in their career. Student debt is a sensible and worthwhile personal investment in fields like health, education, law, engineering, business and the trades, however in the world of aviation there’s no hiding that it’s an enormous gamble. Once qualified to fly, those with large debts will happily accept the crumbs from the table to keep the bank manager at bay and to cover their basic living expenses.
Some personal experiences/opinions:
I studied Aviation Management at university in the early to mid 2000s. Those of us in the Management Stream had to achieve a UAI cut off score in the 80s to be accepted into the degree program. On the other hand, the ‘rich kids of leisure’ of the Flying Stream were predominately selected based on their family’s ability to pay upfront or via biannual instalments. Most of the ‘rich kids of leisure’ had never worked a casual or part-time job in their life, and all of them were living the good life throughout university on their parent’s nickel.
In terms of effort and attitude the Flying Stream students generally fell into one of two categories: (1) The ‘model’ students who had an appreciation of the amazing opportunity they had been afforded. They approached their flying training in a professional manner and did their best when on campus for their academic studies. Several years on, some of them have made it into the RHS of a turboprop or jet, some are still flying bug-smashers and the rest have given up the dream altogether. (2) The second category was the spoilt brats who were half-hearted, naïve, mucked around and completely blew their opportunity to capitalise on their fortunate position. I’m pretty sure they all exited the aviation industry once they realised they were still years away from a well paying gig with a major airline.
Personally, I’ve always wanted to fly, however for a range of rational and irrational reasons I’ve suppressed the flying bug for many many years. My non-flying career has allowed me to pay off my first home with my partner before the age of 30, build a pretty good superannuation balance and enjoy a debt-free lifestyle going forward. Unlike the life of a pilot I’ve never had to work shiftwork, my weekends are my own and my employers have paid for my postgraduate study and lots of professional development opportunities. Unfortunately though, I’ve not had all the great experiences of learning to fly and making a living tearing around the skies.
I’m currently facing the high-stakes decision of whether I should ‘chase the dream’ in my thirties, fully aware of the sorry state of the aviation industry. Essentially, I have four options: (1) join the likes of the silver spoon cadets (2) join the ‘rich kids of leisure’ on a university flying program (3) join the family/debt/self-funded flyers making their way through GA and regional carriers (4) stick with my desk-bound job, get my PPL and happily fly something sporty on the weekend and treat aviation purely as a leisure pursuit.
I wish the small minority of self-funded aspiring pilots all the very best in their flying careers. You’re fighting an uphill battle but if you achieve your goals the victory will be all yours…
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I am one of those kids, being a student who's currently doing VCE. Up until recently I wanted to be a pilot, but now I'm having second thoughts being:
The cost of training
Low pay
Being screwed by employers
Long/back of the clock hours
Over regulation
Having to compete with cadets who are willing to sell themselves
Over automation
The fact that pilots may very well not be required or in very low demand in 30 years time (drones, completely automatic or ground controlled aircraft)
Not exactly an attractive career.
Any aircrew shortage will simply be filled by fast tracked, 18 year old guys with shiny jet syndrome anyway.
The cost of training
Low pay
Being screwed by employers
Long/back of the clock hours
Over regulation
Having to compete with cadets who are willing to sell themselves
Over automation
The fact that pilots may very well not be required or in very low demand in 30 years time (drones, completely automatic or ground controlled aircraft)
Not exactly an attractive career.
Any aircrew shortage will simply be filled by fast tracked, 18 year old guys with shiny jet syndrome anyway.
Im in year 12 and would love to be an airline pilot too. What i have found is that pretty much every career i have looked into (Civil Engineering, Mining Engineering, Physics/maths teacher) everyone gets screwed over just like pilots do.
I have been looking into engineering cadetships and what they have on offer is much worse than the pilot cadetship schemes Jetstar and REX have on offer.
Most of the engineering cadetships on offer pay for you uni, you work for them for free in the school holidays, then when you graduate you earn $30k for 3 years.
I think everyone on pprune seems to forget that doesnt matter what career you are in, you have to start off at the bottom earning crap money.
I have been looking into engineering cadetships and what they have on offer is much worse than the pilot cadetship schemes Jetstar and REX have on offer.
Most of the engineering cadetships on offer pay for you uni, you work for them for free in the school holidays, then when you graduate you earn $30k for 3 years.
I think everyone on pprune seems to forget that doesnt matter what career you are in, you have to start off at the bottom earning crap money.
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Most of the engineering cadetships on offer pay for you uni, you work for them for free in the school holidays, then when you graduate you earn $30k for 3 years.
Arabian Aerospace - Youngsters fail the personality test
When I began flying, you would concentrate on the instruments during the approach, and look out of the window once visual.
FO's these days look out of the window during the approach (trusting the autopilot to fly the thing) then, once visual, stare fixedly at the instruments (lacking the ability to fly an aircraft looking out of the window...)
For generations, youngsters entering the airline industry have been driven by the simple desire to fly and to use their professional skills. No longer. She revealed that a survey of future aircraft commanders ranked the top four attractions in becoming a pilot as ‘respect and status’; ‘stability and career progression’; ‘glamour and lifestyle’; and ‘money’. ‘Using flying skills’ came fifth.
Equally worrying was the sense of entitlement that young people were displaying when they came to Symbiotics for assessment on behalf of airlines.
“Kids don’t like being tested,” she said. As fewer airlines sponsored or otherwise paid for the training of cadets, young pilots were increasingly having to fund their own way through training. This, the conference had earlier heard, could cost €100,000-150,000 ($135,000-200,000) and the result, said Heath, was that they felt that they were the clients and did not want to be tested.
Equally worrying was the sense of entitlement that young people were displaying when they came to Symbiotics for assessment on behalf of airlines.
“Kids don’t like being tested,” she said. As fewer airlines sponsored or otherwise paid for the training of cadets, young pilots were increasingly having to fund their own way through training. This, the conference had earlier heard, could cost €100,000-150,000 ($135,000-200,000) and the result, said Heath, was that they felt that they were the clients and did not want to be tested.
FO's these days look out of the window during the approach (trusting the autopilot to fly the thing) then, once visual, stare fixedly at the instruments (lacking the ability to fly an aircraft looking out of the window...)
For generations, youngsters entering the airline industry have been driven by the simple desire to fly and to use their professional skills. No longer. She revealed that a survey of future aircraft commanders ranked the top four attractions in becoming a pilot as ‘respect and status’; ‘stability and career progression’; ‘glamour and lifestyle’; and ‘money’. ‘Using flying skills’ came fifth.
I would take 4Greens advice if you enjoy real flying, but add the fact that many military pilots coming off ROSO don't seem to be moving to the airlines these days, as it's a massive pay cut for most, and a step backwards in terms of flying.
Be prepared to get out and change careers again.
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Buzz, I face a similar conundrum!
I've had a great passion for aeroplanes and flying since I was a kid, however for various reasons didn't pursue a career in flying directly after school, instead going to Uni and subsequently obtaining work in the medical field. After several years of very secure and decently paid employment in this sector, I decided to follow my dream and become a pilot.I completed my CPL over several years while still working full-time and being supported by my girlfriend/wife.
Last year I moved 'Up North' in order to pursue a career in aviation, regardless of the very significant drop in job security and renumeration that move would entail. It was an expensive excursion and while it was a lot of fun, unfortunately it proved fruitless (except for one flying job offer which I turned down for, erm, safety reasons).
My experience was that while some guys had a run of good luck and found good work with decent operators fairly quickly, many junior pilots were hanging around for up to a year before finally finding flying work. What's more the work was not always full-time, so pay was less than the 36k/yr you may expect, or involved questionable safety standards, or moving to very remote locations, or a combination of those!
In this situation the young punks have an advantage in my opinion, as they should be more flexible with location (not having to worry about the wife finding work at oodnawhoopwhoop) and usually won't have the responsibility of mortgage payments over their heads.
Having said that, i think anyone with the right attitude and persistance will get there, it's just a question of how much you are willing to sacrifice.
So I'm currently back in a major city and back in my original profession.The question is: Do I go all-in and have another go at kick-starting my career as a commercial pilot? Or do I resign myself to only flying for fun?
I have been strongly considering Instructing, as it would allow me to fly every day, and I enjoy teaching students and junior staff in my current job, so I think it would translate to the same with flying.
Still, there's the problem of very low pay for a good 5 years and comparatively poor job security.
Hmmm...
Pull-Up-Terrain, follow your dream, you only live once! Having said that, as a comparison, everyone from my Uni course had work within 3 months of finishing the degree, the starting salary is in the high 50s and after a few years close to double that.
I've had a great passion for aeroplanes and flying since I was a kid, however for various reasons didn't pursue a career in flying directly after school, instead going to Uni and subsequently obtaining work in the medical field. After several years of very secure and decently paid employment in this sector, I decided to follow my dream and become a pilot.I completed my CPL over several years while still working full-time and being supported by my girlfriend/wife.
Last year I moved 'Up North' in order to pursue a career in aviation, regardless of the very significant drop in job security and renumeration that move would entail. It was an expensive excursion and while it was a lot of fun, unfortunately it proved fruitless (except for one flying job offer which I turned down for, erm, safety reasons).
My experience was that while some guys had a run of good luck and found good work with decent operators fairly quickly, many junior pilots were hanging around for up to a year before finally finding flying work. What's more the work was not always full-time, so pay was less than the 36k/yr you may expect, or involved questionable safety standards, or moving to very remote locations, or a combination of those!
In this situation the young punks have an advantage in my opinion, as they should be more flexible with location (not having to worry about the wife finding work at oodnawhoopwhoop) and usually won't have the responsibility of mortgage payments over their heads.
Having said that, i think anyone with the right attitude and persistance will get there, it's just a question of how much you are willing to sacrifice.
So I'm currently back in a major city and back in my original profession.The question is: Do I go all-in and have another go at kick-starting my career as a commercial pilot? Or do I resign myself to only flying for fun?
I have been strongly considering Instructing, as it would allow me to fly every day, and I enjoy teaching students and junior staff in my current job, so I think it would translate to the same with flying.
Still, there's the problem of very low pay for a good 5 years and comparatively poor job security.
Hmmm...
Pull-Up-Terrain, follow your dream, you only live once! Having said that, as a comparison, everyone from my Uni course had work within 3 months of finishing the degree, the starting salary is in the high 50s and after a few years close to double that.
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Sorry, if I knew how to embed a youtube vid I would:
Search this on youtube and watch it:
So you want to be a regional airline pilot.
Not being negative but if you think this wont happen here you're dreaming. In 'the good ole days' the pot at the end of the G.A. rainbow was a job with a major. Have a look at the pot at the end of the rainbow now: Qantas? Not likely. Jetstar? You will have to pay significant money to get in there. Virgin? Going down the cadetship path? But probably your best chance??
So how many jobs will be available to all of the graduates? (you) and when?? That's the big question, you are at the mercy of the economy, if you can predict what will happen here then you've probably got a shot. Who predicted the Olympic Dam bailout? Who predicted the price of ore dropping over 30% in the last how many months?
You need to take a realistic look at your chances. I've got a few mates approaching their 40's with significant multi time that are still applying for and getting knocked back for the next step, multi crew turbine (and that's the right seat). They wont be getting a shot at the airlines.............
If you want to be a pilot there are a multitude of other things you can do to satisfy your thirst..................
Search this on youtube and watch it:
So you want to be a regional airline pilot.
Not being negative but if you think this wont happen here you're dreaming. In 'the good ole days' the pot at the end of the G.A. rainbow was a job with a major. Have a look at the pot at the end of the rainbow now: Qantas? Not likely. Jetstar? You will have to pay significant money to get in there. Virgin? Going down the cadetship path? But probably your best chance??
So how many jobs will be available to all of the graduates? (you) and when?? That's the big question, you are at the mercy of the economy, if you can predict what will happen here then you've probably got a shot. Who predicted the Olympic Dam bailout? Who predicted the price of ore dropping over 30% in the last how many months?
You need to take a realistic look at your chances. I've got a few mates approaching their 40's with significant multi time that are still applying for and getting knocked back for the next step, multi crew turbine (and that's the right seat). They wont be getting a shot at the airlines.............
If you want to be a pilot there are a multitude of other things you can do to satisfy your thirst..................
Jack
While I don't disagree with your view of the current situation, I have to reflect that I did not pursue a flying career because I heard similar tales when first learning to fly in the 1970's.
From memory, it was 400 unemployed CPL's in Oz, the airlines wouldn't look at you once you'd hit 28 and everyone was leaving the RAAF due to reduced flying opportunities and low morale.
One of the informed instructors expressing these negative sentiments went on to retire as a senior 747 check captain with 25000 hours.
At the end of the day, we all have to make our own decisions and chart our own course.
As for the title of the thread, a straw poll at Chez Cooda finds one kid who wanted to get into aviation but is too tall, one who has regional Cabin Crew and long haul Cabin Manager on her CV and the third is in the RAAF pilot training program.
Must have been in the genes; because I didn't try to influence them in their career choices.
While I don't disagree with your view of the current situation, I have to reflect that I did not pursue a flying career because I heard similar tales when first learning to fly in the 1970's.
From memory, it was 400 unemployed CPL's in Oz, the airlines wouldn't look at you once you'd hit 28 and everyone was leaving the RAAF due to reduced flying opportunities and low morale.
One of the informed instructors expressing these negative sentiments went on to retire as a senior 747 check captain with 25000 hours.
At the end of the day, we all have to make our own decisions and chart our own course.
As for the title of the thread, a straw poll at Chez Cooda finds one kid who wanted to get into aviation but is too tall, one who has regional Cabin Crew and long haul Cabin Manager on her CV and the third is in the RAAF pilot training program.
Must have been in the genes; because I didn't try to influence them in their career choices.
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Cooda,
I'm not telling them not to do it, I'm just saying go in to it informed
I do have success stories amongst my flying mates but far less than the disappointed ones. If it doesn't come off, if you aren't in the right spot at the right time it's a very expensive lesson to learn................... and certainly not one to go into debt over!
I'm not telling them not to do it, I'm just saying go in to it informed
I do have success stories amongst my flying mates but far less than the disappointed ones. If it doesn't come off, if you aren't in the right spot at the right time it's a very expensive lesson to learn................... and certainly not one to go into debt over!
)
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A few years back I was in a 737 simulator with a European captain who had booked some refresher flying before returning to India on a contract job. He was currently flying with a major Indian airline subsidiary that had suffered a disastrous 737 over-run killing many. I asked him about the general standard of flying skills of the first officers. He gave one example that shook me up. During take off the F/O (young female) failed to give him the 80 knot support call. He glanced over and was astonished to see her hanging on to her seat with both hands and her eyes screwed tight.
In the cruise he told her he got the impression she did not like flying very much. She agreed that was right. She explained that in her part of India, parents would often seek the advice of sooth-sayers before making financial or otherwise similar decisions. Her family did just that in relation to what career their daughter should follow in order to bring money home to the family. The answer was send their daughter to USA to learn to be a pilot and get a job as a pilot back in India.
The daughter had little say in the decision and after graduation with a CPL and 737 type rating in Miami USA, she became a new F/O on a 737. She further explained that not only was she now the cash cow for her family, but her Indian course mates at Miami were all reluctant pilots in the same boat as her. None were interested in flying.
Many years ago, I trained a course of Chinese cadets in NZ for their 737 type rating. Over coffee after our introduction to each other, I asked how they had got into flying in the first place. They said they had no choice in their career. All were in University studying various disciplines when "the authorities" came to their University and directed that all students of a certain year in University were to undergo aircrew medical tests. Those that passed were to be streamed either into the military as pilots or into an airline as pilots. "We are to be the airline pilots" was the their simple answer to my earlier question.
In the cruise he told her he got the impression she did not like flying very much. She agreed that was right. She explained that in her part of India, parents would often seek the advice of sooth-sayers before making financial or otherwise similar decisions. Her family did just that in relation to what career their daughter should follow in order to bring money home to the family. The answer was send their daughter to USA to learn to be a pilot and get a job as a pilot back in India.
The daughter had little say in the decision and after graduation with a CPL and 737 type rating in Miami USA, she became a new F/O on a 737. She further explained that not only was she now the cash cow for her family, but her Indian course mates at Miami were all reluctant pilots in the same boat as her. None were interested in flying.
Many years ago, I trained a course of Chinese cadets in NZ for their 737 type rating. Over coffee after our introduction to each other, I asked how they had got into flying in the first place. They said they had no choice in their career. All were in University studying various disciplines when "the authorities" came to their University and directed that all students of a certain year in University were to undergo aircrew medical tests. Those that passed were to be streamed either into the military as pilots or into an airline as pilots. "We are to be the airline pilots" was the their simple answer to my earlier question.
Last edited by A37575; 8th Sep 2012 at 13:12.
Originally Posted by raafwannabe
Over automation
The fact that pilots may very well not be required or in very low demand in 30 years time (drones, completely automatic or ground controlled aircraft)
The fact that pilots may very well not be required or in very low demand in 30 years time (drones, completely automatic or ground controlled aircraft)
go and ask any potential passenger if they would willingly board an aircraft knowing that there was no human in the cockpit flying the plane. I think the airlines would have a hard time convincing the public it's a good idea, particularly since the news media seem hell bent on portraying aviation as unsafe and reckless.
You go and ask any potential passenger if they would willingly board an aircraft knowing that there was no human in the cockpit flying the plane. I think the airlines would have a hard time convincing the public it's a good idea, particularly since the news media seem hell bent on portraying aviation as unsafe and reckless.
Would you get on a train without an engineer (in the "train driver" sense)? People do, everyday on some lines in London, Tokyo etc etc.
If the next generation of hypersonic aircraft become reality. Sydney - Low orbit - London in an hour and a half:
... On such a flight weight is everything - would you get on it, get strapped in by attendants who then complete the briefing and get off, launch to London for recovery (just like a roller coaster)? I would. I think most would.
Sure - strap an extended computer into a crappy old current generation 737, and it isn't going to happen.
But progress is relentless, my friend.
Just like the eighties! Same old story... Who you know not what you know.... Rich kids beating poor kids.... Working for crup in GA because you want to get that airline job.... Shame
never changes! However, if you never give it a red hot go you will always wonder if you would have made it....I know I do. However, I never regret the decision not to prostitute myself to get there.
never changes! However, if you never give it a red hot go you will always wonder if you would have made it....I know I do. However, I never regret the decision not to prostitute myself to get there.
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I never regret the decision not to prostitute myself to get there.
