CASA – Words fail.
Nope Sunfish. AC43... was intended for major alterations in the USA.
When that minor/major terminology was introduced into the regs here they were adamant that the US interpretation would apply. I've been out of it for a few years but I understand that they, without changing the regs or the dictionary meaning of words, have moved to the different EASA definitions - perhaps some-one could expand on that point ... i.e. more significant mods could be classified as minor. So a minor mod could be quite substantial and so require some serious engineering hence an appropriate process needs to be followed. That would leave room for a lesser category of mod, perhaps call it trivial which CASA should take little interest in altogether.
In the USA, the FAA takes an interest in major mods. As for minors, the only control is to specify who can approve minor mods (and that would be a LAME type) and the usual system of audits.
So Sunfish, I disagree with what you believe to be the heart of the problem.
As for conflict in approved data - that's why we need the engineering types in industry to sort stuff out.
When that minor/major terminology was introduced into the regs here they were adamant that the US interpretation would apply. I've been out of it for a few years but I understand that they, without changing the regs or the dictionary meaning of words, have moved to the different EASA definitions - perhaps some-one could expand on that point ... i.e. more significant mods could be classified as minor. So a minor mod could be quite substantial and so require some serious engineering hence an appropriate process needs to be followed. That would leave room for a lesser category of mod, perhaps call it trivial which CASA should take little interest in altogether.
In the USA, the FAA takes an interest in major mods. As for minors, the only control is to specify who can approve minor mods (and that would be a LAME type) and the usual system of audits.
So Sunfish, I disagree with what you believe to be the heart of the problem.
As for conflict in approved data - that's why we need the engineering types in industry to sort stuff out.
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While looking for the Lawyers prose, found this at $300 ph.
The Engineer's Hymn
(Sung to the tune of the "Battle Hymn of the Republic")
Chorus:
We are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers,
We can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers.
Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum and come along with us,
for we don't give a damn for any damn one who don't give a damn for us.
Godiva was a lady who through the Coventry did ride,
to show all the villagers her pretty bare white hide.
The most observant man, an Engineer, of course,
was the only one to notice that Godiva rode a horse.
Chorus
An artsie and an Engineer once found a gallon can.
Said the artsie, match me drink for drink and prove that you're a man.
They drank three drinks, the artsie died, his face was turning green,
But the Engineer drank on and said, "It's only gasoline."
Chorus
Now Venus is a statue made entirely of stone,
There's not a fig leaf on her, she's as naked as a bone.
On noticing her arms were broke, an Engineer discoursed,
"Of course, the damn thing's broken, it should be reinforced."
Chorus
Elvis was a legend, he's the King of Rock 'n' Roll,
But the life he was leading - well, it finally took it's toll.
He realized too late, he'd chosen the wrong career.
So he faked his death and came to school, now he's an Engineer!
Chorus
The modern Engineer must be politically correct.
No more motors lubricating, no more buildings rise erect.
No electrical capacitors whose plates are high and fair.
Instead of problem solving, let's just sit around and care.
Chorus
She said, "I've come a long, long way and I will go as far,
With the man who takes me off this horse and leads me to a bar."
The men who took her off her steed and stood her to a beer,
were a blurry-eyed surveyor and a drunken Engineer.
Chorus
A maiden and an Engineer were sitting in a park.
The Engineer was busy doing research after dark.
His scientific method was a marvel to observe.
While his right hand wrote the figures down, his left hand traced the curves.
Chorus
When it comes to math and science, Engineers-- we kick ass.
There isn't a course or subject Engineers cannot pass.
If presented with a problem we can solve it with great ease.
All we do is reach into our bag and pull out our HP's
Chorus
The Army and the Navy were out to have some fun.
Looking for a tavern where the fiery liquids run.
But all they found were empties, for the Engineers had come,
And traded all their instruments for gallon jugs of rum.
Chorus
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole.
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they won't even speak to me 'cause I'm an Engineer!
Chorus
Now you've heard our story and you know we're Engineers,
and like all jolly people we can down our whiskey clear.
We drink to every other sport who comes from far and near,
Cause we know damn sure that we are all a hell of an Engineer!
(Sung to the tune of the "Battle Hymn of the Republic")
Chorus:
We are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers,
We can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers.
Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum and come along with us,
for we don't give a damn for any damn one who don't give a damn for us.
Godiva was a lady who through the Coventry did ride,
to show all the villagers her pretty bare white hide.
The most observant man, an Engineer, of course,
was the only one to notice that Godiva rode a horse.
Chorus
An artsie and an Engineer once found a gallon can.
Said the artsie, match me drink for drink and prove that you're a man.
They drank three drinks, the artsie died, his face was turning green,
But the Engineer drank on and said, "It's only gasoline."
Chorus
Now Venus is a statue made entirely of stone,
There's not a fig leaf on her, she's as naked as a bone.
On noticing her arms were broke, an Engineer discoursed,
"Of course, the damn thing's broken, it should be reinforced."
Chorus
Elvis was a legend, he's the King of Rock 'n' Roll,
But the life he was leading - well, it finally took it's toll.
He realized too late, he'd chosen the wrong career.
So he faked his death and came to school, now he's an Engineer!
Chorus
The modern Engineer must be politically correct.
No more motors lubricating, no more buildings rise erect.
No electrical capacitors whose plates are high and fair.
Instead of problem solving, let's just sit around and care.
Chorus
She said, "I've come a long, long way and I will go as far,
With the man who takes me off this horse and leads me to a bar."
The men who took her off her steed and stood her to a beer,
were a blurry-eyed surveyor and a drunken Engineer.
Chorus
A maiden and an Engineer were sitting in a park.
The Engineer was busy doing research after dark.
His scientific method was a marvel to observe.
While his right hand wrote the figures down, his left hand traced the curves.
Chorus
When it comes to math and science, Engineers-- we kick ass.
There isn't a course or subject Engineers cannot pass.
If presented with a problem we can solve it with great ease.
All we do is reach into our bag and pull out our HP's
Chorus
The Army and the Navy were out to have some fun.
Looking for a tavern where the fiery liquids run.
But all they found were empties, for the Engineers had come,
And traded all their instruments for gallon jugs of rum.
Chorus
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole.
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they won't even speak to me 'cause I'm an Engineer!
Chorus
Now you've heard our story and you know we're Engineers,
and like all jolly people we can down our whiskey clear.
We drink to every other sport who comes from far and near,
Cause we know damn sure that we are all a hell of an Engineer!
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 5th Aug 2012 at 10:51.
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Class A or Class B maintenance requirements
@leadsled
Bankstown office feels you are confusing requirements for Class A aircraft maintenance with requirements for Class B aircraft maintenance.
Chalk and cheese
CAR 30 organisations continue maintenance as before, new Part 145 maintenance orgs operate as you describe.
@Frank
That is the Army Engineers song(RAE) , not aircraft engineers(RAEME). Besides we would be drinking 40 rums, to get over dealing with pilots
Cheers
Bankstown office feels you are confusing requirements for Class A aircraft maintenance with requirements for Class B aircraft maintenance.
Chalk and cheese
CAR 30 organisations continue maintenance as before, new Part 145 maintenance orgs operate as you describe.
@Frank
That is the Army Engineers song(RAE) , not aircraft engineers(RAEME). Besides we would be drinking 40 rums, to get over dealing with pilots
Cheers
Last edited by blackhand; 6th Aug 2012 at 03:26.
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Thing is RAE build things and blow them up as it suits their purpose. (Dave knows what I'm talking about),. I know. I was awarded a medal upon return from hospital at Singleton with achievements written on dunny paper with an RAE badge after suffering the indignity of a "confidence charge".
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Blacky a question for you?. What exactly is the difference, other than the warehouse full of paperwork, between class A and class B maintenance?
Is Class A any safer? if so why?
Is Class A any safer? if so why?
Bankstown office feels you are confusing requirements for Class A aircraft maintenance with requirements for Class B aircraft maintenance.
Chalk and cheese
CAR 30 organisations continue maintenance as before, new Part 145 maintenance orgs operate as you describe.
Chalk and cheese
CAR 30 organisations continue maintenance as before, new Part 145 maintenance orgs operate as you describe.
Isn't the objective to remove the distinction between RPT and CHTR?
...so all CHTR aircraft will be "Air Transport" category?
Frank:
"Confidence charge"? One pound block? Time a boot length of fuse? etc.
Thing is RAE build things and blow them up as it suits their purpose. (Dave knows what I'm talking about),. I know. I was awarded a medal upon return from hospital at Singleton with achievements written on dunny paper with an RAE badge after suffering the indignity of a "confidence charge".
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English Please - Again
Well Blackie
I agree with sunny - The complexity not only helps casa, but helps you as well Blackie.
Come on - Easy and clear regs is the answer, no need for clarifying instruments either and allowing the car 35 engineer to get on with the important parts.
Your turn Blackie:
How about you put forward some real information where we all can say:
Well done Blackhand!!
These questions are best directed to your CASA AWI.
I can advise you on your maintenance requirements but will come at a cost to you.
Cheers
I can advise you on your maintenance requirements but will come at a cost to you.
Cheers
Come on - Easy and clear regs is the answer, no need for clarifying instruments either and allowing the car 35 engineer to get on with the important parts.
Your turn Blackie:
How about you put forward some real information where we all can say:
Well done Blackhand!!
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@ up into the air
The reality is that some posters are not here to learn about the issue, but more to cause angst amongst the unknowing.
The regulations about Class A maintenance and Class B maintenance and their respective requirements are readily available, granted one has to sit quietly and digest the various references.
Most operators and maintainers that I know are concerned about the implications of charter operations under the new CASRs, but it is out of our hands. My philosophy is to just get on with it and help my clients to be compliant - at minimum cost and heartburn.
I have had some interesting "discussions" with CASA AWI's about their RCAs and/or requests under CAR38 about SOMs - so am not an naive innocent on this subject.
My payment for advise comment was not serious, though I can see now that it was perhaps uncalled for.
Cheers
The reality is that some posters are not here to learn about the issue, but more to cause angst amongst the unknowing.
The regulations about Class A maintenance and Class B maintenance and their respective requirements are readily available, granted one has to sit quietly and digest the various references.
Most operators and maintainers that I know are concerned about the implications of charter operations under the new CASRs, but it is out of our hands. My philosophy is to just get on with it and help my clients to be compliant - at minimum cost and heartburn.
I have had some interesting "discussions" with CASA AWI's about their RCAs and/or requests under CAR38 about SOMs - so am not an naive innocent on this subject.
My payment for advise comment was not serious, though I can see now that it was perhaps uncalled for.
Cheers
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yes/no yes/no yes/no
Horatio Leafblower's questions were very interesting . . .
For us beers of small brain can someone please supply three yes/no answers thank you.
1) will charter operators have to maintain aircraft as Class A? yes/no
2) is the objective to remove RPT and CHTR distinction? yes/no
3) will all CHTR aircraft be "Air Transport" category? yes/no
as a charter operator I will be required to maintain aircraft as Class A or B in this brave new world?
Isn't the objective to remove the distinction between RPT and CHTR?
...so all CHTR aircraft will be "Air Transport" category?
Isn't the objective to remove the distinction between RPT and CHTR?
...so all CHTR aircraft will be "Air Transport" category?
1) will charter operators have to maintain aircraft as Class A? yes/no
2) is the objective to remove RPT and CHTR distinction? yes/no
3) will all CHTR aircraft be "Air Transport" category? yes/no
Last edited by weloveseaplanes; 7th Aug 2012 at 03:49.
1) will charter operators have to maintain aircraft as Class A? yes/no
2) is the objective to remove RPT and CHTR distinction? yes/no
3) will all CHTR aircraft be "Air Transport" category? yes/no
2) is the objective to remove RPT and CHTR distinction? yes/no
3) will all CHTR aircraft be "Air Transport" category? yes/no
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CASR 135 and Charter Ops
As I suspected Horatio you are just and ignorant koont looking for a fcking head kicking
Don't bother whinging like fking little school girls and asking for a ban.
Mi les pinis
Don't bother whinging like fking little school girls and asking for a ban.
Mi les pinis
Last edited by blackhand; 8th Aug 2012 at 04:40.
WELL DONE BLACKIE.
...as promised.
Now, above you have told us:
...and he says, according to you...
..and yet you yourself now agree
(sic).
Looking forward to a public recanting on all the smart-arse comments you have made about the confusion and people's apparent failure to comprehend.
Perhaps if such esteemed experts and interpreters of the English language such as yourself and the Bankstown office of CASA can have differing opinions, lowly illiterate pilots such as myself can be forgiven for strugglling?
...as promised.
Now, above you have told us:
These questions are best directed to your CASA AWI.
Bankstown office feels you are confusing requirements for Class A aircraft maintenance with requirements for Class B aircraft maintenance.
Chalk and cheese
Chalk and cheese
Reading through CASR 135, appears charter operations are include
Looking forward to a public recanting on all the smart-arse comments you have made about the confusion and people's apparent failure to comprehend.
Perhaps if such esteemed experts and interpreters of the English language such as yourself and the Bankstown office of CASA can have differing opinions, lowly illiterate pilots such as myself can be forgiven for strugglling?
Thread Starter
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Now, where were we
One or two good points raised in the maintenance article, seems there is at least a semblance of hope, this provides a 'reasonable' explanation of what's going on:-
Then again –
If two respectable, sensible experts can't agree 'fundamentals' perhaps it's understandable that we 'Plebs' in matters maintenance are scratching our heads.
One thing is certain though, it's a first class revenue generator; heard a yarn recently about a 'minor' unserviceability at an outfield location which normally would have cost 1 hour of local engineer time which, by the time the aircraft returned to service, cost almost $6000 in CASA administrative fees. Could this end up the real issue, hide the fault and have it fixed at home or, trade honestly and go broke trying?
Progress - presumably this will soon be incorporated into the CASR 's as is the current CASA process for developing new rules - remove old rules and the bulk of new ones using instruments (or CAAP) to fill any gaps until all can be incorporated into the new suite. This takes time and can lead to confusion with rules and regulations spread amongst CAR, CASR, CAAP and Instruments until it all gets consolidated.
LS - Those of you with any actual familiarity wit EASA Part 66, 145 etc., will know that the CASA "EASA like" engineering and maintenance suite is unrecognizable in EASA terms. Indeed, unrecognizable compared to any other major aviation country's continuing airworthiness regulations.
One thing is certain though, it's a first class revenue generator; heard a yarn recently about a 'minor' unserviceability at an outfield location which normally would have cost 1 hour of local engineer time which, by the time the aircraft returned to service, cost almost $6000 in CASA administrative fees. Could this end up the real issue, hide the fault and have it fixed at home or, trade honestly and go broke trying?
Last edited by Kharon; 8th Aug 2012 at 22:06. Reason: Just to bask in a troll snot free zone