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Merged: CASA Regulatory Reform

Old 21st Jul 2012, 02:46
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Yep, a lot easier to understand and not a mention of Penalty units, Criminal codes, police, public floggings or lethal injection either!

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Old 21st Jul 2012, 08:11
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Ooo-err! Looks like I’ve done gone and ruffled the wig of the resident lawyer. Well, it’s not the first time I’ve fallen afoul of the legal fraternity!

C.P.,
Firstly, thanks for the explanation of the legislative process. 27 years ago the rule book was less than half the size it is now. My bleat about having to access the regs on the AG’s website was but pining for a simpler time. Back then a pilot was judged by their ability to operate an aircraft safely and efficiently both on the ground and in the air (anybody else remember that definition?!). These days it appears that the standard is now being able to quote chapter and verse from the ever-increasing and unnecessarily complex rules that seem to be designed to catch you out.
The reason every aspect of daily life in Australia is being slowly regulated to death is that Australians keep electing dumb and dumber governments who are very happy to keep pumping out laws as fast as they can be made. Governments consider the making of a law to be an ‘achievement’ and ‘progress’. (Look at what the current government claims to be among its successes: the passage of thousands of pages of primary legislation that ultimately do only one of two things: tax the populace or create new criminal offences.)
Agree – mostly. However you have to concede that the increasingly litigious nature of our society is a key factor here. CASA are just tin-plating their asses here. And guess what – they’re not Robinson Crusoe in that regard.
The reason governments get away with it is because punters like CSD blame the regulators.
Not just the regulators. And don’t call me a punt.
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 22:31
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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My bleat about having to access the regs on the AG’s website was but pining for a simpler time.
No, it wasn’t just about that. You blamed CASA for that outcome:
CASA have allowed the legal fraternity to get theor claws into something that should be reasonably simple to understand
CASA hasn’t ‘allowed’ anything. CASA has continued to do what it’s told to do or - perhaps more importantly - what it’s allowed to get away with, by its political lords and masters.

You need to understand the metaphor about monkeys and organ grinders to understand my point.
the increasingly litigious nature of our society
Where is your data to demonstrate our society is ‘increasingly litigious’?
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 23:32
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CASA hasn’t ‘allowed’ anything
OK then.
CASA has continued to do what it’s told to do or - perhaps more importantly - what it’s allowed to get away with, by its political lords and masters.]
So you agree with me then?
Where is your data to demonstrate our society is ‘increasingly litigious’?
Oh you cannot be serious (spoken in my best John McEnroe voice)! You want "data"? Try the media for a start. Seems like every day there's a story about someone sueing someone else. It's becoming a national sport. I've even been threatened with legal action myself for proffering a professional opinion. They didn't have the guts to follow it through though.

Last edited by Captain Sand Dune; 21st Jul 2012 at 23:33.
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 00:41
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Millions of Lawyers can't have chosen the wrong profession, surely?

I guess there must be a need for them.
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 01:22
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You can’t tell the difference between CASA being allowed to do something, and CASA allowing something to be done, CSD? I suppose I should no longer be surprised at the number of pilots who are evidently functionally illiterate.

So ‘the media’ is your data, CSD? That would be the same media that are roundly criticized on PPRuNe, on the grounds of inaccuracy, whenever reports about matters relating to aviation are published?

‘Millions of lawyers’, eh FA? Another one based on ‘the media’?
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 01:46
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CP


‘Millions of lawyers’, eh FA? Another one based on ‘the media’?

Maybe a little grand but based on the admissions adverts there surely isn't a shortage , and they all need to earn a buck , the amount of litigation is not a shrinking statistic.
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 01:56
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Sadly, it is now recognised that Australia is now the most litigious (sp?) society in the world - we have overtaken the good ole US of A in the number of lawsuits filed per head.

I also read recently in the media that Australia is one of the most regulated countries in the world. Commentators put this down to
a) our convict past (apparently we are very likely to do something unless we are specifically told not to), and
b) our enterprising spirit (even if we are specifically told not to, we will still try and bend the rules if if we reckon we can get away with it).

This means that in a bid to cover their arse, regulators then try to make sure the rules cover every potential possibility, no matter how unlikely or outlandish that possibility might be.

Sound familiar?
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 02:38
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Seems you cant tell some people that though.
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 05:38
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Seems you cant tell some people........
Oh the irony of it all, perhaps this thread should be renamed CASA and the Regs... Irony Please

Last edited by blackhand; 22nd Jul 2012 at 05:41.
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 07:06
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Mentioning CASA and "the reg's" in the same sentence is like asking how goes the Regulatory Review Process.

It's probably not irony, but oxymoronic, or a waste of time.

I blame The Magna Carta for all those Lawyers.

Yes, yes. I know, a Mitsubshi Ute.
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 06:19
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I know, a Mitsubshi Ute.
Good one! Having a juvenile sense of humour I thought I'd heard most of those, but that's a newie to me.

Back to the debate / mud-slinging match, though; surely no-one can honestly claim our regs are produced with clarity of expression and ease of use as the uppermost priorities, can they?

If we accept that they aren't (as I do), my next question is: why not?

Yes, they must be legally tight and consistent, but surely CASA has a duty to produce stuff that bloody well works for the industry!
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 10:18
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Yeah, but which industry?
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 10:59
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The Legal Representation "Industry"
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 22:43
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casa and the regs

There it is - Thanks T28D

Lets just be a "tosser" and toss out the old and replace them with the FAR's, with the necessary minor changes.

We would then align with the ICAO requirements [Get casa out of jail with the ICAO non-compliance's - all 2600 of them]

and

BINGO:

The GA and the rest of the avaiation community could get on with operating without fear or favour.

Do the Job??
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 00:19
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Get casa out of jail with the ICAO non-compliance's - all 2600 of them
Please explain
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 01:24
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Blackie I think he meant to say 2600 'differences', although non-compliance has a familiar ring to it!

If you read the 'Final Report', see here:http://legacy.icao.int/fsix/AuditRep..._Report_en.pdf
...it is very much written like a NCN/RCA, with applicable responses from the applicable government agency.

It would appear that unlike the Oz Maritime Laws, that are very much standardised worldwide, we have along way to go (if ever) before we adopt a similar suite of regs to either the EU or US!
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 01:29
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Of course there are no differences between the FARs and ICAO requirements, are there.
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 02:32
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Creamy since your so keen to defend the indefensible and as your an avid reader, I'll let you do the comparison:

http://legacy.icao.int/fsix/AuditRep...nal_Report.pdf

...and the US score/pass mark:

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The U.S. aviation system received a score of 91 out of 100 in a new safety audit released today by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), a United Nations agency that oversees international civil aviation.
“This audit by ICAO validates our systems approach to safety,” said Robert A. Sturgell, acting administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). “The results show that our priorities are in the right place.”
The U.S. score, which was well above the global average of 56, reflected U.S. compliance with over 9,500 international safety standards. The FAA led U.S. preparations for the audit, which also included the National Transportation Safety Board, the U.S. Coast Guard and the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.
The team of ICAO auditors conducted a comprehensive audit of all aspects of civil aviation in the United States, including aircraft operations and airworthiness, accident investigation, navigation services, airports, personnel licensing and legislation and regulations. The auditors interviewed technical experts and conducted site visits to government and industry facilities to assess overall safety oversight.
The Universal Safety Oversight Audit Program was established by ICAO in 1995 at the urging of the United States. It provides civil aviation authorities throughout the world with valuable information on the overall health and effectiveness of their airspace systems.
Trivia question: What was Australia's pass mark?
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 02:36
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Creamy , You are being way to precious, FAA is a National body with a defined set of Regulations, ICAO is an oversight body that audits compliance Internationally.

The 2 are only coincident at the point of audit and compliance with the published international standard.
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