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V-TAIL BONANZA CRITIQUE

Old 17th Jul 2012, 02:50
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By George:

Wasn't CFH written off at Alice Springs?
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Old 17th Jul 2012, 03:15
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Haven't read the mag in years. Is it still the Editors personal flying experience diary?
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Old 17th Jul 2012, 03:57
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There was nothing wrong with this great design, as said prior the S35 was the pinacle but all other models were streets ahead of other lighties.
The only small problem, which may have accounted for loss of someTail Surfaces was that when repainted the tailplane was Paint Weight Critical. Paint had to be measured and weighed acuratly for equal distibution on both surfaces or Tail Flutter could be expected. I have a feeling there may have been an AD regarding this problem but not sure?
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Old 17th Jul 2012, 04:38
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Chuck, you probably remember the days when you flew your multi off to where someone signed off the endorsement. Ie you got it here, you must be OK. Proper basic training and a read of the handbook was just about enough to fly anything. Sadly, those days have gone forever.
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Old 17th Jul 2012, 04:50
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I seem to remember having a couple of hours in the LHS of a PA60-602P before doing the endorsement - which didn't take long.

Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 17th Jul 2012 at 04:52.
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Old 17th Jul 2012, 07:02
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my Baron type rating took 20 minutes
45 minutes for me in the Chieftan, but that was a long time ago now and it just wouldn't happen today. I've come across a couple of places that want anywhere from 5 to 10 hours in a 210 before they'll cut you loose. WTF!
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Old 19th Jul 2012, 11:39
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Limited Bonanza time, 30-odd hours. Hired a V-tail a few years ago, the owner checked my licence, medical and logbook and tossed me the keys. Did some basic air sequences in the first bit of the first flight; wasn't particularly different to an A36, except a power-on stall. It bit, REALLY hard. No buffet, just flicked onto its back. Easy recovery, but a bit surprising considering its otherwise docile behaviour. I still think the Bonanza / Baron are pretty much the definitive GA single and light twin.
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Old 19th Jul 2012, 21:03
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In order to read the offending article I completely wasted $7.75 to buy a copy of Australian Aviation. My earlier impressions that the magazine isn't worth buying anyway were confirmed, although I note the new editor has already received criticism of Jim Davis' articles.

But there (see my earlier posting) was CFK on the cover!

The article was, from beginning to end, unadulterated tosh. Regarding the well-known Bonanza/Debonair/Baron trick of the door popping open as you get airborne, I've never heard of any change in the flying characteristics - the wing-drop has to be a figment of the author's imagination. I've asked around to confirm this; all you get is a lot of noise (and all the loose paperwork being sucked out!).

Jamair, many years ago I used to do Bonanza endorsements. Looking at my logbook, these were in a M35, S35 & V35 - never to I recall a savage wing-drop in the stall. Possibly the one you flew was mis-rigged?

Last edited by Dora-9; 19th Jul 2012 at 21:04.
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Old 19th Jul 2012, 21:51
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I'm wondering if Jim Davis has his aeroplanes mixed up, the Aztec with the door open would oscillate in pitch with quite a bit of buffet. The 'E' model was the worst. At least it shut up the right-hand seat pax, they would go very quiet and sit up like a peg on a clothes line.

Bonanza CFH is indeed no longer with us but the ATSB report has been 'removed'. Why would they do that?
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 01:45
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The article was, from beginning to end, unadulterated tosh. Regarding the well-known Bonanza/Debonair/Baron trick of the door popping open as you get airborne, I've never heard of any change in the flying characteristics - the wing-drop has to be a figment of the author's imagination. I've asked around to confirm this; all you get is a lot of noise (and all the loose paperwork being sucked out!).
Yup! Jaba has video of a door "pop" in an A36. He might post the link if he sees this.

I have "popped" the door on the V35, A36 and 55 Baron - it just gets very noisey!

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Old 20th Jul 2012, 01:54
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Dora - dunno, maybe. It was otherwise quite a nice ride. Coulda been my crap flying too. VH-ILJ if memory serves.

Have had doors open on PA28, A36, B58 and Aztec. Complete non event in all regards. Didn't the PM of UnZud (the non-male one who euthanised the NZAF) have a door-opening event in an Aztec?
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 02:52
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Had a door open in a Seneca 1 once. No drama but a few loose WACs were sucked out! Most annoying.
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 07:38
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...another reason why CASA should allow iPads for on-board documentation.
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 12:09
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Look, lets face it, any Beech product is a delight to fly, and an absolute pig to work on.
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 09:13
  #35 (permalink)  
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flywatcher

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Chuck, you probably remember the days when you flew your multi off to where someone signed off the endorsement. Ie you got it here, you must be OK. Proper basic training and a read of the handbook was just about enough to fly anything. Sadly, those days have gone forever.

Well now you raise the subject . .. . . . . .it might cast one under up alongside some nefarious connection if one were to be too specific .. . . . BUT I do recall various 'bar' endorsements on twins you would never fire up if you had not done a bit of homework. Many's the really old stager who can tell you how they were shown the 'taps' and with a push on the shoulder the lid was closed. Sometimes even a Spitfire (Read "The Sky Beyond' by Sir Gordon
Taylor)

Cannot recall the process of being checked out on the banana... it was a beautiful all yellow one VH-KKK owned and operated by one Geoffrey Keighly off a property near Stock (Stockinbingal nr Temora) Might have been an S model fully IFR Delivered her down to Mascot one shitty morning . . . hairing along over Glenfield trying to get the speed back and stay on the LLZ broke at 300 ft sighing with relief.
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 12:46
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I'll probably drop my subscription to AF as a result.
What a sook ... one article you dont like about a chunk of flying metal and you spit the dummy. Your life must be a greaser if this is the worst thing thats happened in it. I enjoyed the article, as I do on most of JD's writing and certainly won't be giving AF up anytime soon as there is much more to it than just that.
A172
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 00:48
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The DCA "S" model was for sale in recent living memory, don't know where it is now. The following link gives our history with them.
Beech V35A Bonanza VH-CAG

It interests me because Bill Lord gave me my first introduction to the Chipmunk and aerobatics many years ago, and I've met the glider pilot. Still going I believe.

EDIT: I hate to do it Clinton, but I just can't help it. Hope you and your Bonanza are well.

http://www.casa.gov.au/fsa/1999/sep/wheelsup.pdf

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 22nd Jul 2012 at 00:57.
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 01:46
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Forkie

You mean this one?

A36 Door pops open.wmv - YouTube

Bit noisy and windy.....did not notice anything alarming.
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 01:53
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah... that looked like a true emergency situation... people screaming, aircraft plummetting, sirens sounding, panic'd crowds, etc etc etc. NOT!
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 02:48
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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but I guess itís good to be famous for something.
Actually Clinton, you redeemed yourself in the article by alerting others to that pitfall. You'll never know of course how many people who read that were saved from the same situation.

Today, that would be a "knee capping" offence, so apt is that it be reposted.
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