Yarrawonga, Doesn't Want Visitors
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Yarrawonga, Doesn't Want Visitors
Recently flew into YYWG and was amazed to find their new signage warning us in no uncertain terms that "without written permission" upon returning to our aircraft we would be fined $2000 big ones unless we had first visited the "colonel of stalag YYWG" for our WRITTEN PERMISSION to re enter the visitor parking area. Also noted the gates chained and padlocked, the girls not happy about climbing the fence to exit the visitor parking area !!
Is the same warning posted in ERSA? If not, next time go with bolt cutters and cut your way out of the gate, and back in if necessary. Just be sure to wear your ASIC....
Just be sure to wear your ASIC....
As AussieNick said, nothing in ERSA so the operators can hardly expect pilots to comply with their made "on the run" rules. Like a lot of these types of airports, run by complete amateurs with little or no experience in airport operation.
Last edited by YPJT; 5th Jun 2012 at 00:47.
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I thought only a government statutory authority could fine people.
I know carparks do, but my understanding was that it is usually either dressed up as 'retrieval' fees or similar, or backed by the local council in a bylaw. IIRC fine revenue collected by the major airports goes directly to the federal government, because they are not statutory authorities.
Anyway, if it's not in ERSA it doesn't exist, right?
I know carparks do, but my understanding was that it is usually either dressed up as 'retrieval' fees or similar, or backed by the local council in a bylaw. IIRC fine revenue collected by the major airports goes directly to the federal government, because they are not statutory authorities.
Anyway, if it's not in ERSA it doesn't exist, right?
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 5th Jun 2012 at 01:15.
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There is a sizeable disconnect between what aircrew expect and what airports need to do these days in regards operations, and there is no reliable real time means of the two communicating.
ERSA is a terrible means of presenting TIMELY information to pilots and the NOTAM system won't carry operational information of this nature.
I don't know what the solution is.
It certainly sounds like Yarrawonga could have done this better though.
Maybe they have an update for ERSA in the system and it just didn't make it.
Certainly there is nothing in the June 24 2012 update either.
ERSA is a terrible means of presenting TIMELY information to pilots and the NOTAM system won't carry operational information of this nature.
I don't know what the solution is.
It certainly sounds like Yarrawonga could have done this better though.
Maybe they have an update for ERSA in the system and it just didn't make it.
Certainly there is nothing in the June 24 2012 update either.
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I find that really hard to understand.
My experience at YYWG has been one of totally friendly and helpful airport management.
Fuel is at least 10 cents per litre cheaper than the Yarra Valley, the shop carries lots of gear, a car is available at very cheap rental and you can grab a free coffee or tea.
It is a council-owned facility so they can make their own by-laws. Irrespective of ownership, I would be very careful following some of the advice already posted here.
In my view, if those signs are as stated, and you enter the airport airside, you have an implied invitation to do so. You have a right to use the airport but no right to do (criminal) damage to its infrastructure.
If you enter from outside without permission and have to break in to do so, you enter as a trespasser and can be charged with that as well as criminal damage.
It seems to me that a sensible course of action would have been to speak to the airport manager or, in his absence, the fuel guy who is also the GA Flying School proprietor to sort the issue out. It's not too hard to guess that the sign and penalty are there to protect aircraft owners from unauthorised access to facilities AND the visitor 's aircraft.
Kaz
My experience at YYWG has been one of totally friendly and helpful airport management.
Fuel is at least 10 cents per litre cheaper than the Yarra Valley, the shop carries lots of gear, a car is available at very cheap rental and you can grab a free coffee or tea.
It is a council-owned facility so they can make their own by-laws. Irrespective of ownership, I would be very careful following some of the advice already posted here.
In my view, if those signs are as stated, and you enter the airport airside, you have an implied invitation to do so. You have a right to use the airport but no right to do (criminal) damage to its infrastructure.
If you enter from outside without permission and have to break in to do so, you enter as a trespasser and can be charged with that as well as criminal damage.
It seems to me that a sensible course of action would have been to speak to the airport manager or, in his absence, the fuel guy who is also the GA Flying School proprietor to sort the issue out. It's not too hard to guess that the sign and penalty are there to protect aircraft owners from unauthorised access to facilities AND the visitor 's aircraft.
Kaz
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I went up that way for a soplo nav about 12 months ago, Nothing was noted up that way and the new terminal was just completed..
I think you'll be okay either way, hardly doubt they will fine you and it will stand considering your main reference is your ERSA.
So considering you landed and parked in visitors area, presuming you haven't been fined then?
Shame if they do this to the strip because it's a good spot to go for golfing (plus our hoiday house!)
I think you'll be okay either way, hardly doubt they will fine you and it will stand considering your main reference is your ERSA.
So considering you landed and parked in visitors area, presuming you haven't been fined then?
Shame if they do this to the strip because it's a good spot to go for golfing (plus our hoiday house!)
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I just did the obvious and rang the Moira Shire Council for further information.
The signs were removed this week because "there was an issue with them," so Dvation, bad timing on your part it looks like.
When Mark calls me back I will endeavour to find out why they were put there and whether they really are going to try and fine you $2000 for trying to inject money into their local economy.
The signs were removed this week because "there was an issue with them," so Dvation, bad timing on your part it looks like.
When Mark calls me back I will endeavour to find out why they were put there and whether they really are going to try and fine you $2000 for trying to inject money into their local economy.
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It is a council-owned facility so they can make their own by-laws.
It's not too hard to guess that the sign and penalty are there to protect aircraft owners from unauthorised access to facilities AND the visitor 's aircraft.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 5th Jun 2012 at 03:32.
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]At 3 pm today 5 June the signs still displayed.Join Date: Feb 2006
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Dear Dvation,
You'll need to learn to be more observant when you read things!!!!
The sign (which is still there apparently) has replaced the old one that said you need "a valid reason" to be airside. They were given legal advice that "a valid reason" is too loose and as such, "written permission / authority" (whatever is on the sign now) should be used.
Written permission implies a you have:
a. valid pilots licence
b. a valid flying certificate
c. a need to access airside
d. one or all of the above
It is essentially a standard CASA style council sign just like the ones at every other council airport (plus more) around the country.
I hope that clears up your concerns!
(To your credit though, they have received around a dozen phone calls in the last two weeks about these new signs)
Piddle Doop !
You'll need to learn to be more observant when you read things!!!!
The sign (which is still there apparently) has replaced the old one that said you need "a valid reason" to be airside. They were given legal advice that "a valid reason" is too loose and as such, "written permission / authority" (whatever is on the sign now) should be used.
Written permission implies a you have:
a. valid pilots licence
b. a valid flying certificate
c. a need to access airside
d. one or all of the above
It is essentially a standard CASA style council sign just like the ones at every other council airport (plus more) around the country.
I hope that clears up your concerns!
(To your credit though, they have received around a dozen phone calls in the last two weeks about these new signs)
Piddle Doop !
Last edited by VH-XXX; 5th Jun 2012 at 06:56.
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SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR
The Actual Sign Reads,
RESTRICTED AREA
TRESPASSERS PROSECUTED
NO PERSON or VEHICLE IS PERMITTED
BEYOND THIS POINT UNLESS AUTHORISED
IN WRITING BY THE OFFICER IN CHARGE
OF AERODROME OPERATION.
EMERGENCY SERVICES PERSONNEL
AND VEHICLES ACCEPTED
PENALTY $2,000
by order of the chief executive officer,
MIORA SHIRE COUNCIL.
I checked out a few similar airports today and found none with even similar signage. Yarrawonga sure seems to be still the un friendly user airport !!
RESTRICTED AREA
TRESPASSERS PROSECUTED
NO PERSON or VEHICLE IS PERMITTED
BEYOND THIS POINT UNLESS AUTHORISED
IN WRITING BY THE OFFICER IN CHARGE
OF AERODROME OPERATION.
EMERGENCY SERVICES PERSONNEL
AND VEHICLES ACCEPTED
PENALTY $2,000
by order of the chief executive officer,
MIORA SHIRE COUNCIL.
I checked out a few similar airports today and found none with even similar signage. Yarrawonga sure seems to be still the un friendly user airport !!
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(To your credit though, they have received around a dozen phone calls in the last two weeks about these new signs)
Nothing like Legal Advice for making clear water murky, at a bargain $250 per hour plus email reading fee.
Have they also painted every flat surface yellow and removed the toilet paper on the basis that toilet paper related injuries may result in a damages claim?
Dipple Poop...
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 5th Jun 2012 at 09:31.
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And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"
So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that. Huh! Me workin' for you!"
Whoa-oh-oh
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
And the sign said anybody caught trespassin' would be shot on sight
So I jumped on the fence and-a yelled at the house, "Hey! What gives you
the
right?"
"To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in"
"If God was here he'd tell you to your face, Man, you're some kinda sinner"
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
Now, hey you, mister, can't you read?
You've got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't even watch, no you can't eat
You ain't supposed to be here
The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
Ugh!
[Lead Guitar]
And the sign said, "Everybody welcome. Come in, kneel down and pray"
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all, I didn't have a
penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me. I'm alive and doin' fine."
Wooo!
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Sign
Sign, sign
(Five man electric band. Canada).
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"
So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that. Huh! Me workin' for you!"
Whoa-oh-oh
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
And the sign said anybody caught trespassin' would be shot on sight
So I jumped on the fence and-a yelled at the house, "Hey! What gives you
the
right?"
"To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in"
"If God was here he'd tell you to your face, Man, you're some kinda sinner"
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
Now, hey you, mister, can't you read?
You've got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't even watch, no you can't eat
You ain't supposed to be here
The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
Ugh!
[Lead Guitar]
And the sign said, "Everybody welcome. Come in, kneel down and pray"
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all, I didn't have a
penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me. I'm alive and doin' fine."
Wooo!
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Sign
Sign, sign
(Five man electric band. Canada).
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 5th Jun 2012 at 11:20.
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Someone needs to take there own advice
So
implies
Not sure that would stand up in court
You'll need to learn to be more observant when you read things!!!!
IN WRITING BY THE OFFICER IN CHARGE OF AERODROME OPERATION
Written permission implies a you have:
a. valid pilots licence
b. a valid flying certificate
c. a need to access airside
d. one or all of the above
a. valid pilots licence
b. a valid flying certificate
c. a need to access airside
d. one or all of the above