Barry Hempel Inquest
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Fruit bats
Apples.
Oranges.
Fruit Salad ?.
Taxi for the Minister ?.
CASA - Hemple realised there needed to be a significant change in action and attitude or his licence would be removed for the duration,’ John said.
CASA is not in a position to stop anybody from wilfully doing something,’ John said. ‘The potential is there for any pilot to act above their licence. The Ramble – Watson.
CASA is not in a position to stop anybody from wilfully doing something,’ John said. ‘The potential is there for any pilot to act above their licence. The Ramble – Watson.
However, because it had effectively achieved John’s grounding in a single meeting from which he was excluded, CASA certainly appeared to be in no hurry to meet the challenges it still faced.
Instead, on June 30 2009 CASA sent John a Notice of Cancellation of your commercial Pilot (Helicopter) Licence. Signed by CASA Group General Manager Of General Aviation Operations Group, Greg Hood, the letter repeated the earlier three allegations, but with the addition of: Birds - What Birds -Phelan AA.
Instead, on June 30 2009 CASA sent John a Notice of Cancellation of your commercial Pilot (Helicopter) Licence. Signed by CASA Group General Manager Of General Aviation Operations Group, Greg Hood, the letter repeated the earlier three allegations, but with the addition of: Birds - What Birds -Phelan AA.
CASA Director John McCormick replied that Mr Butson was “a bit delusional if that is what he thinks the outcome of the court cases has been so far.”
Last edited by Kharon; 12th Jun 2012 at 19:58.
Just a few of questions.
Was Barry a Director or had any legal association with Hempel Aviation other than the same name?
Was the aircraft owned by Hempel Aviation?
Was the aircraft on Hempel Aviation AOC and operated under the supervision of the CP?
Was the aircraft operated under the Warbirds Association?
I think you will find the answer to all the above is "no"
I also think you will find that the A/C and surveillance (if there is such an animal) over its operation will fall between the crack between CASA and the Warbirds Association.
Nothing much of benefit will eventuate from this exercise.
Was Barry a Director or had any legal association with Hempel Aviation other than the same name?
Was the aircraft owned by Hempel Aviation?
Was the aircraft on Hempel Aviation AOC and operated under the supervision of the CP?
Was the aircraft operated under the Warbirds Association?
I think you will find the answer to all the above is "no"
I also think you will find that the A/C and surveillance (if there is such an animal) over its operation will fall between the crack between CASA and the Warbirds Association.
Nothing much of benefit will eventuate from this exercise.
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601 asks some very good questions
i.e.
Was Barry a Director or had any legal association with Hempel Aviation other than the same name?
I am not sure, but he did use the credit card faciltiies and EFTPOS terminal of Hempel Aviation Pty Ltd to accept payment for the joyflight in which Ian Lovell was killed, and the website (at the time of the crash, it has since been changed, but copies were taken at the time and tabled in evidence to the inquiry)) showed the Yak as being operated by Hempel Aviation Pty Ltd.
I am not a lawyer, but does this not suggest some type of linkage, or am I being naive ???????
i.e.
Was Barry a Director or had any legal association with Hempel Aviation other than the same name?
I am not sure, but he did use the credit card faciltiies and EFTPOS terminal of Hempel Aviation Pty Ltd to accept payment for the joyflight in which Ian Lovell was killed, and the website (at the time of the crash, it has since been changed, but copies were taken at the time and tabled in evidence to the inquiry)) showed the Yak as being operated by Hempel Aviation Pty Ltd.
I am not a lawyer, but does this not suggest some type of linkage, or am I being naive ???????
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601 thats a bit of a harsh post and very bias.
Official documents from CASA might prove the answers to your questions were "NO" but was this to cover up the actual operations being carried out.
What about the following questions.
Did the YAK 52 have Hempels Aviation written on the tail?
Did the Joy Filght certificates for the YAK52 have Hempel Aviation Written on it?
Was the receipt of payment from Hempels Aviation?
Was the Publics view of the YAK 52 that it was operated out of Hempels Aviation?
Were people aware that BH had his CPL revoked, however still flying his YAK 52 with paying passengers?
As you might have already guessed the answers to all of the above is YES.
However, an inquest in not to point fingers to determine who is at fault. An inquest is to find out the "TRUTH" of how these businesses/operations are run and to put forward recommendations to assist preventing this happen in the future. Whether it is CASA or the War Birds Assoc who take these recommendations on board it doesnt really matter.
I dont know why people are trying to cover up what has happened. Take a step back and just think if it was your child, husband/wife, grand parents, friends etc that passed away when there could have been a prevention, what would you choose Accident/incident prevention or promotion of accident/incidents.
Official documents from CASA might prove the answers to your questions were "NO" but was this to cover up the actual operations being carried out.
What about the following questions.
Did the YAK 52 have Hempels Aviation written on the tail?
Did the Joy Filght certificates for the YAK52 have Hempel Aviation Written on it?
Was the receipt of payment from Hempels Aviation?
Was the Publics view of the YAK 52 that it was operated out of Hempels Aviation?
Were people aware that BH had his CPL revoked, however still flying his YAK 52 with paying passengers?
As you might have already guessed the answers to all of the above is YES.
However, an inquest in not to point fingers to determine who is at fault. An inquest is to find out the "TRUTH" of how these businesses/operations are run and to put forward recommendations to assist preventing this happen in the future. Whether it is CASA or the War Birds Assoc who take these recommendations on board it doesnt really matter.
I dont know why people are trying to cover up what has happened. Take a step back and just think if it was your child, husband/wife, grand parents, friends etc that passed away when there could have been a prevention, what would you choose Accident/incident prevention or promotion of accident/incidents.
Last edited by jetfighter; 13th Jun 2012 at 07:35.
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Was Barry a Director or had any legal association with Hempel Aviation other than the same name?
Of course he was also married to the sole Director of Hempel Aviation.......
Was the aircraft owned by Hempel Aviation?
Of course he was also married to the sole Director of Hempel Flying School.......
TB
(more than one way to skin a cat)
Last edited by TunaBum; 13th Jun 2012 at 06:06.
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ahhh.... mariage is a wonderful thing
and would this be the same sole Director of Hempel Aviation (and the same person is the sole Director of Hempel Flying Training) who does not actually hold a pilot's licence? How did CASA allow that to happen ??
Was the aircraft operated under the Warbirds Association?
I think you will find the answer to all the above is "no"
I think you will find the answer to all the above is "no"
The aircraft was on a Limited Cat. certificate, and, therefore, administered by AWAL.
The aircraft could not do "joy rides", (ie: a charter) but could do "Adventure Flights", for which no AOC is required, but must be operated to the standards of the AWAL manual, which includes a suitably experienced CPL as the pilot.
Tootle pip!!
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Joy Flight = Normal AOC / Charter Company / Flying school or whatever. Requires Certified aircaft with Civillian C of A.
Adventure Flight = Aircraft operated under Warbirds Assicoation AOC equivalent. Potentially a single aircraft, single man operator. Limited Category aircraft, usually an ex-military C of A. Limited responsibility, you fly at your own risk by default.
Adventure Flight = Aircraft operated under Warbirds Assicoation AOC equivalent. Potentially a single aircraft, single man operator. Limited Category aircraft, usually an ex-military C of A. Limited responsibility, you fly at your own risk by default.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 13th Jun 2012 at 23:36.
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the same person is the sole Director who does not actually hold a pilot's licence? How did CASA allow that to happen
You may like to read up on the Ord Air matter to see how jaundiced they can get with some and yet allow others operational rights. I think its a mutation of "Stockholm Syndrome" that runs rampart through parts of the existing/ remaining industry.
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thanks VH-XXX.
does
"Joy Flight = Normal AOC / Charter Company / Flying school or whatever. Requires Certified aircaft with Civillian C of A."
mean that if the journey (call it what you will) in the YAK-52, which was advertised on the website of Hemple Aviation Pty Ltd, and paid for via an EFTPOS machine registered to Hempel Aviation Pty Ltd, is a normal AOC and the pilot must hold a commercial licence?
just trying to get my head around it all
does
"Joy Flight = Normal AOC / Charter Company / Flying school or whatever. Requires Certified aircaft with Civillian C of A."
mean that if the journey (call it what you will) in the YAK-52, which was advertised on the website of Hemple Aviation Pty Ltd, and paid for via an EFTPOS machine registered to Hempel Aviation Pty Ltd, is a normal AOC and the pilot must hold a commercial licence?
just trying to get my head around it all
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I wonder whether the Coroner or his Counsel Assisting have their respective heads around these sort of issues ......... not sure these issues came up during the Inquiry?
Last edited by TunaBum; 14th Jun 2012 at 02:27. Reason: spelling
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does
"Joy Flight = Normal AOC / Charter Company / Flying school or whatever. Requires Certified aircaft with Civillian C of A."
mean that if the journey (call it what you will) in the YAK-52, which was advertised on the website of Hemple Aviation Pty Ltd, and paid for via an EFTPOS machine registered to Hempel Aviation Pty Ltd, is a normal AOC and the pilot must hold a commercial licence?
"Joy Flight = Normal AOC / Charter Company / Flying school or whatever. Requires Certified aircaft with Civillian C of A."
mean that if the journey (call it what you will) in the YAK-52, which was advertised on the website of Hemple Aviation Pty Ltd, and paid for via an EFTPOS machine registered to Hempel Aviation Pty Ltd, is a normal AOC and the pilot must hold a commercial licence?
- The "operation" could have had both a normal AOC and a Warbird "AOC," however the Yak would have been operating under the Warbird "AOC."
- The pilot regardless of the operation type (AOC / Warbirds) requires a CPL.
Let us know if that's not clear still.
One of the primary benefits of the Warbird operations is that you don't have to have a full-blown CASA AOC with Chief Pilot, massive operations manuals and reams of paperwork costing many thousands of dollars and great effort. With the Warbird category practically any CPL can apply for an Warbird AOC equivalent and start flying. Great for one-man operations / as a hobby etc.
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One of the primary benefits of the Warbird operations is that you don't have to have a full-blown CASA AOC with Chief Pilot, massive operations manuals and reams of paperwork costing many thousands of dollars and great effort. With the Warbird category practically any CPL can apply for an Warbird AOC equivalent and start flying. Great for one-man operations / as a hobby etc.
TB
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This is a cut and paste from just one page of Hempel Website before it was taken down in Sept 2008 (I have all original htmls):
Hempels Joy and Scenic Flights
Russian YAK 52's
Tiger Moth DH-82A
Skipper BE77
Gift Certificates Available
Experience the exhilaration of an aerobatic joyflight in our YAK 52 or from the open cockpit of our Tiger Moth over our magnificent Queensland coastline.Our aircraft are immaculately restored and piloted by our team of highly experienced pilots with many years of commercial and military flying experience. We can tailor your flight experience to include aerobatic manoeuvres to highly advanced levels at your request.
For a pace that's a little more sedate but no less breathtaking, our scenic flights over the magnificent Bay Islands, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast or Hinterlands is an experience you will want to repeat. Choose from our Beechcraft Skipper BE77 for one passenger, our Cessna 172 for up to 3 passengers or our Beechcraft Baron or Bonanza for up to 5 passengers. Click on the following link for Joy and Scenic Flights price information.
Hempels Joy and Scenic Flights
Russian YAK 52's
Tiger Moth DH-82A
Skipper BE77
Gift Certificates Available
Experience the exhilaration of an aerobatic joyflight in our YAK 52 or from the open cockpit of our Tiger Moth over our magnificent Queensland coastline.Our aircraft are immaculately restored and piloted by our team of highly experienced pilots with many years of commercial and military flying experience. We can tailor your flight experience to include aerobatic manoeuvres to highly advanced levels at your request.
For a pace that's a little more sedate but no less breathtaking, our scenic flights over the magnificent Bay Islands, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast or Hinterlands is an experience you will want to repeat. Choose from our Beechcraft Skipper BE77 for one passenger, our Cessna 172 for up to 3 passengers or our Beechcraft Baron or Bonanza for up to 5 passengers. Click on the following link for Joy and Scenic Flights price information.
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Not that it is entirely relevant, however if the Warbird association had picked that up during their audit (and they do check websites) they would have been advised modify the website to call them Adventure Flights before re-issuing their Warbird paperwork.
"adventure" instead of "joy" should mean the punters are fully informed and know exactly what it is they are jumping into when they part with their cash
A classic example was highlighted in the Willowbank Coroner's report, from about page 15 onwards....yes it is the old chestnut Car 206 but it does highlight the regulator's reactive approach to Coroners Inquests:
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/...h-20081124.pdf
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CPL, What CPL ??
thanks VH-XXX and others, I now apprecate the distinction, but if there is NO CPL, it is a little academic is it not?
Ian's partner purchased him a "joyflight" from a company which apparently had a pilot (who was NOT a Director, but was married to the sole (and non-flying) Director) with NO CPL, or have I missed something ?????
Ian's partner purchased him a "joyflight" from a company which apparently had a pilot (who was NOT a Director, but was married to the sole (and non-flying) Director) with NO CPL, or have I missed something ?????
Last edited by Macroderma; 14th Jun 2012 at 10:58. Reason: fixed a typo