The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Barry Hempel Inquest

Old 27th Oct 2012, 10:35
  #421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,453
Received 29 Likes on 13 Posts
Dude... I was being sarcastic.
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2012, 19:17
  #422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
HL #419 - Mr Hempel didn't black out - he might have had medical issues but they were not a factor and CASA is NOT responsible - it was a trim tab failure just like on that P51 at Reno.
Fantome # 422 - No surprise, it is amateurish alongside what is expected from experts, here or overseas. It contains much detail, including numerous references of a highly speculative nature, impossible to connect conclusively to what led to the deaths of the two men killed.
It's the family, friends and Coroner I feel sorry for.

The ATSB 'declined' to investigate a fatal with some very dark periphery issues, not sure if it was the old excuse (money) or the newly minted one (OH&S issues) or maybe, because their second best mates at CASA said "We'll pick this one up Beek old mate, no wuckers".

It is still not possible to define the true role CASA played in the investigation, bit like the whores draws, on again, off again.

Either way, the QPS report was provided with detail, a dedication to assist the Coroner and to prevent a repeat. Although how in all the hells that poor sod is to make rhyme or reason of this mess is beyond me.

Still, top marks for effort in the face of determined opposition, perhaps the Coroner could order an "expert" analysis; but then again he didn't have much luck getting his aircraft lifted. Never mind, the families can rest comfortably in the knowledge that "Beeker" under spent his budget that year. Crazy stuff.

Last edited by Kharon; 27th Oct 2012 at 19:22.
Kharon is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2012, 03:37
  #423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,678
Received 42 Likes on 27 Posts
Wreckogy...

around BNE would there not be club scuba divers or police divers who would volunteer their time be taken to the site that could obtain pics of the tail unit, fin and rudder, tailplane and elevators (plural??) AND the TRIM TAB.
Needs to be done.
aroa is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2012, 04:49
  #424 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,733
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
aroa if you download the QPS zip file that PAIN provided, see here:Zippyshare.com - QPS Report.zip and I think it is in the second PDF file you will see that the police divers took a number of phots of the areas of interest.

However as my post above indicates the ATSB experts couldn't make "conclusive or absolute findings" without raising and pulling apart the Yak! But no government agency wanted to foot the bill for salvaging the aircraft, again the QPS report highlights the salvaging issue

If you've got the time aroa it is well worth a read!
Sarcs is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2012, 06:33
  #425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: More than 300km from SY, Australia
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
casa and Hemple and the YAK's

It certainly is a great read, given that it points at two Government Departments dodging in their responsibilities.

Nothing new of course.

It will be good to see if the Coroner recognizes this and that there may be a whole range of issues in this.

A clear outcome with a direction as to how casa and atsb should have acted would be refreshing.

Maybe charges should be preferred under the TSI ACT
Up-into-the-air is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2012, 11:14
  #426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,733
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Besides, as UITA alludes, the possible multiple breaches of the TSI Act by both Federal aviation safety authorities and the fact that there is also possibly breaches of the Commonwealth Criminal Code in perverting the course of justice in regards to the proceedings of the QLD Coroner's court...still too much mcwriggle room in there....

But there are also several questions to be asked in terms of the regulator's strict liability. Perhaps this is why Fort Fumble's legal eagles are busily devising diversionary/delaying tactics to the Coroner's findings.

The following copy of a letter from the Barry Hempel Show Cause process is perhaps why the regulator's legal eagles are feeling particularly vulnerable at the moment:
I refer to your letter dated 20 February 2008 in relation to the above.

As the cancellation of Mr Hempel’s commercial licence is the subject of a review by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal I am not prepared to meet with your client, but provide a written response to some of the questions you have raised.

I advise that Mr Hempel under his Private Pilot (Aeroplane) licence is authorised to conduct private operations including acrobatic flights under CAR 155 and warbird flights in, for example, the Yak aircraft within the limits for private operations set out in CAR 2(7) and excluding those matters for which an AOC is required under CAR 206.

He is not required to hold an AOC to conduct flights in limited category warbird operations in the Yak as set out in CAR 262AM(2) but he is required to hold a commercial pilot (aeroplane) licence (or an ATPL) if he receives any commercial consideration from some other person for such flights (outside the “share cost” private operations set out in CAR 2(7A)) and meets the other requirements in CAR 262AM(7).

As Mr Hempel still holds a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating he is authorised to conduct conversion training in relation to aeroplanes of which he holds an endorsement.

You also ask: “For what period you envisage that a history of compliance must be established in order to reasonably satisfy you as regards the issue of a commercial licence etc?”

There is no fixed period of disqualification before a person whose licences have been cancelled can reapply. Where a licence has been cancelled on the basis the holder is not a “fit and proper person” it is for that person to demonstrate to CASA they are now a fit and proper person by, for example, re-emergence of their former good character, honesty and history, or other activities involving aviation or safety generally, attending courses, providing lectures etc, and obtaining references from persons prepared to verify their alleged change of character.
Regardless of the fact that he wasn't a paid up member of the warbirds, to a person like Barry that letter would be as good as a 'green light' for ops in his Yak that he was ever likely to get!

From the regulator's point of view that letter makes it pretty hard to escape 'strict liability' in this matter but they will try!

Last edited by Sarcs; 29th Oct 2012 at 23:00.
Sarcs is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2012, 12:58
  #427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,678
Received 42 Likes on 27 Posts
Stranger than fiction...

Sarcs.. roger that . Just got in for QPS file OK this try.

From the letter extract re Hempels PPL.... the last para about "not fit and proper" and how you remake yourself to be so..all looks a bit weird to me.
JQ would be interested !
On what legal basis can you define or prove "the re-emergence of yr former good character, honesty and commitment to aviation safety".

And this is from the outfit that shows time and again these attributes are lacking in themselves !
Takes one to know one does it?
aroa is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2012, 19:23
  #428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
SARCS/ AROA: both good catches. A reasonable man (or mannette) would have to wonder just what the hell are CASA are trying to cover up or protect. The Coroner should open the gates and let the QPS do a full investigation; soup to nuts. This getting bizarre, Quadrio hung, drawn and quartered on the most questionable, flimsy evidence; Hempel against solid evidence, a slap on the wrist. WTF.

Once again we find ourselves at the CASA door asking questions. It's getting to be a repeat pattern, like holding, round and round it goes. Same old pony pooh, different day.
Kharon is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2012, 01:17
  #429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Date of pineapple 29/10/2010

Note : Michael Quinn DCEO CASA did not respond to a written request from SC Bourke. ( I wonder why ever not? when did Quinn depart the realms of power, anyone remember)?
Herr Quinn 'walked the green mile' on 29/01/2010. Oh my so many memories, so much activity at that time around the halls of Fort Fumble. At the time Micky was being a naughty boy

gobbledock is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2012, 02:35
  #430 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: on the edge
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GD, surely not the same Quinn who is the hero of Senate Hearing?
blackhand is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2012, 05:56
  #431 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GD, surely not the same Quinn who is the hero of Senate Hearing?
Indeed it is dear Blackie, the one and only!
He has been itching to get square with the Skull. What better way to get even? Micky didn't leave Fort Fumble of his own volition that is for certain. There were many many 'things' going on behind closed doors, however I won't divulge publicly for legal reasons, however those in the know are very much aware of the shennanigans that were going on within the Temple of Safety!
gobbledock is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2012, 12:31
  #432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,678
Received 42 Likes on 27 Posts
Trim tab...

Wised up thereon with the QPS report. Excellent work, that man.

No elephant stamps for the regulator tho.

Interested in 32.5...!!
CASA produced a brief of evidence with a view of prosecuting the Hemple Co. CEO and CP.."with inciting BH to fly commercial ops while not the holder of a CPL..." Que?
CDPP.(Been dudded before) . NO prosecution as no proof of intention re the act leading to the crash.

Damn, says CASA why wasnt that a rule of "strict liability"
Dont have to prove intent..so yr a criminal if you just forgot or accidently or inadvertently breached without deliberate intent.
Or in this case just let BH go off and do what he does.

Its a weird and wonderful legal world out there, so just remember that all you criminals that havent been sprung yet.

And those at/on LSD are master tricksters at the " We'll getcha game".
aroa is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2012, 10:50
  #433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,453
Received 29 Likes on 13 Posts
LBH send message to new big chief when he move into Roma St lodge.
This indian ask:

"How?"
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2012, 11:28
  #434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
SCRAMBLED .. .. . . have sit-down . . .. . have pow-wow

This quote is taken off the Memorial Wall dedicated to the Women and Men who lost their lives to the Salem Witch hunt mania of the 17th century.

I know it is not a Native American oriented quote, but in the air of potential "witch hunts" going on today, spurred on by some christian fundamentalists trying to ban non-christian worshipping on military bases and elsewhere, I thought it was appropriate. If they get their way, not only will Pagans and Wiccans suffer, but Native Americans following their own paths, and Muslims, and Jews, etc., until no one is left...





My Face


My face is a mask I order to say nothing
About the fragile feelings hiding in my soul.



-Glenn Lazore (Mohawk)


Words of Wisdom




The American Indian is of the soil, whether it be the region of forests, plains, pueblos, or mesas. He fits into the landscape, for the hand that fashioned the continent also fashioned the man for his surroundings. He once grew as naturally as the wild sunflowers, he belongs just as the buffalo belonged....



Out of the Indian approach to life there came a great freedom, an intense and absorbing respect for life, enriching faith in a Supreme Power, and principles of truth, honesty, generosity, equity, and brotherhood as a guide to mundane relations.



You have noticed that everything an Indian does is in a circle, and that is because the Power of the World always works in circles, and everything tries to be round..... The Sky is round, and I have heard that the earth is round like a ball, and so are all the stars. The wind, in its greatest power, whirls. Birds make their nest in circles, for theirs is the same religion as ours....



Even the seasons form a great circle in their changing, and always come back again to where they were. The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in everything where power moves.




-Black Elk (Oglala) 1863-1950

Last edited by Fantome; 31st Oct 2012 at 11:34.
Fantome is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2012, 12:18
  #435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,678
Received 42 Likes on 27 Posts
Why the buffalo died....

Black Elk spoke well. ( Black Elk Speaks...good book ,too)
But along came the !*$##@*!! whitemen from CASA that speak with forked tongue, and kill off everything.
Their symbol is also circular...a big black fundamental hole.
Way past time for smoking out ceremony. Big time.
aroa is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2012, 23:15
  #436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,453
Received 29 Likes on 13 Posts
Hm. White man magic.
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2012, 05:41
  #437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Chief Stewie, former Chief Bob and Chief Sitting Duck Blackhand

New Big Chief Stewie is good friend of Little Bighorn for long time and live in same village many years ago. He listen on "wire that carries voices."
Word on street is that now Big Chief Footstool Bob gone new Chief Stewie not as keen on white man bureaucracy games and he even get rid of 6 Deputy Chiefs to make room for more Indians to pound beat.
Chief Footstool Bob retire with many white man monies from big retirement fund and government superannuation from many years loyally serving government Premier.
Chief Walking Stewie apparently known for not taking Kyote pooh from anybody, including Fort Fumble and ATSB. It still be unknown whether Chief Walking Stewie listen to Chief Sitting Duck Blackhand the postie bike mechanic from PNG or whether he tell Chief Sitting Duck Blackie to mind him business and go back home. Chief Stewie not take fools lightly so me thinks Chief Sitting Duck Blackie will not receive Chief Stewie's listening ear and will be told to go back to CAA in own country with lot of folding stuff and knowledge of SMS and he will receive many listening ears.

Chief Stewie also want to get him and QPS back to basics and not be involved in silly aeroplane accidents that take up time and resources to investigate. He want more QPS manning speed camera and making safe roads for all. He be wanting Fort Fumble's Chief Screaming Skull and ATSB Chief Beaker Gollum to look after large flying machines which sometime soar with the eagle then crash to earth in the dust like the Scorpion.

Chief Sitting Duck Blackie and Sqaw

Last edited by gobbledock; 1st Nov 2012 at 05:47. Reason: Avoiding Chief Blackie's smoke rings and smoke screens
gobbledock is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2012, 06:35
  #438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,678
Received 42 Likes on 27 Posts
Message smokes..??

Upfronter.
Any further on this or do we all have to wait until late November.?
Meanwhile re-feather yr arrows and sharpen yr tomahawks and pencils.
aroa is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2012, 09:49
  #439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Someone speak with forked tongue!
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2012, 16:53
  #440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post


Came across this apt quote in the late Dick Nell's book, 'FLYING ON THE EDGE'.

(Funny, when you search "Dick Nell" on proone it comes up with a number of posts where you get Eskimo Nell references combined with Deadeye Dick.
Dick Nell would have chuckled his quiet appreciative laugh at that one.)

On page 171 of this excellent read Dick is visiting Ben Buckley. He asks Ben about his frequent court skirmishes with the department of uncivil aviation.

Ben . . . . "That's my best story. The department was really out to get me. They confiscated my licence but I refused to accept it. Eventually they caught me in the act and I had to line up in court. I was not really being a danger to anyone or even to myself. After all I had survived 23,000 hours flying in aviation's most dangerous occupation, so I must know something about safety."

"The department is supposed to regulate flying so it is safe. But their rules are inflexible and designed for the most inept people. They give no consideration to the fact that in some situations, with highly skilled pilots, the rules can be bent a little without danger to anyone. Some of these officials get a little bit of power and, in the name of safety, like to smash heads."

"Anyway, the trial was amazing. The prosecutor said that I was before the court for flying an Australian aircraft without a licence. My solicitor got up and asked them to explain the definition of an Australian aircraft. Well, would you believe it, they didn't know."

"They searched around in their papers and couldn't come up with the answer.
They lost the case and had to give my licence back. The joke of it all is, I found out later, the definition of an Australian aircraft is simply an aircraft registered in Australia."

Fantome is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.