AUSFLY 2012 Narromine NSW 13-16 September
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I'm not even being cryptic any more and I urge readers to look and read the past comments.
The "parking charge" was $5 per person. I know one bloke who parked with only him in the car= $5. Saw another with 4 pob= $20, me, $10.
Do you get the drift? That's an admission charge for people, not for parking a car. The cash is a donation as far as I'm concerned, but you can't charge admission to a fly-in as per the invitation at the start of this thread.
End of discussion.
The "parking charge" was $5 per person. I know one bloke who parked with only him in the car= $5. Saw another with 4 pob= $20, me, $10.
Do you get the drift? That's an admission charge for people, not for parking a car. The cash is a donation as far as I'm concerned, but you can't charge admission to a fly-in as per the invitation at the start of this thread.
End of discussion.
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Wouldnt it depend who was charging the fee?, Local council, VRA, other local charity?
The council is pretty keen to recover any costs it can for looking after the Airfield and facilities.
The council is pretty keen to recover any costs it can for looking after the Airfield and facilities.
Last edited by Jetjr; 3rd Oct 2012 at 06:45.
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Find a new topic would ya!
The fact it was a terrific job done by the AOPA, AWAL & SAAA and more orgs next year the better.
I'll be back 100% guaranteed.
Anyone got any good pics or video to upload?
After the last two days we could all do with a positive uplift don't you think!
The fact it was a terrific job done by the AOPA, AWAL & SAAA and more orgs next year the better.
I'll be back 100% guaranteed.
Anyone got any good pics or video to upload?
After the last two days we could all do with a positive uplift don't you think!
Really? Where did you hear this from? In the old gits queue at the RTA when he was applying to keep his drivers licence 
Straight from the horse's mouth, and not from a horse's posterior, where your remarks come from.
The fact that RAOz were not really welcome is rather silly, just how you have an Oshkosh in Australia with the great political divide between RAOz (fast approaching the majority of private operations hours) and SAAA has got me tossed.
The problem is NOT with AWAL and AOPA, it is the long standing (since the inception of the AUF) divide between RAOz and SAAA is the problem.
As a fly-in, there have been almost as many GA aircraft at several NatFly's at Narromine as there were at Ausfly. As a fly-in Ausfly must be judged as a success, but as a base to build on, with the present politics, ?????
Including the post Ausfly washup.
A major national event built around NatFly has a lot more practical chance of success. If you don't understand the history of "SAAA v. The Rest" you will not understand the basis of my comments.
Tootle pip!!
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Straight from the horse's mouth
Yes the industry is in a bit of strife but after attending an airshow overseas and seeing how it should be done I'm re-enthused brutha! Stop being such a f@cking misery guts, be part of the solution not a whingeing old bastard.
I happened to meet a couple of CASA doods at the airshow I spoke of. Most of you here will whinge about them getting a 'free trip' me? I think it was money well spent having them see how aviation pumps over there. The economy over there is diabolical yet the show that was put on was bloody amazing!
If you build it they will come and come they did, that's what they are doing at Narromine..........I believe brutha, I believe
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And just to add, when the industry over there faces a challenge or a bad decision, they actually GET OFF THEIR FARKING ARSES AND DO SOMETHING, whinging is at a minimum, action a premium.
'Tis all a very different 'attitude' over there JR....and IT SHOWS - in the 'Aviation Industry' economy.
The rest of it is shot....
Even L'il ole NZ is different to us and CASA!!!
Could you imagine a 'Wanaka' style show being held over here??
Enjoy the next one!
The rest of it is shot....
Even L'il ole NZ is different to us and CASA!!!
Could you imagine a 'Wanaka' style show being held over here??
Enjoy the next one!
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Enormous success!
Great weekend organisers! Here is what AOPA has to say about it.
AOPA Online : Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association of Australia
AUSFLY, the fly-in event for general aviation aircraft and pilots, was held over the weekend of 14-16 September at Narromine, NSW. The event was organised by the Sport Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA) and co-supported by the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of Australia (AOPA) and the Australian Warbirds Association (AWAL).
AOPA President Andrew Andersen praised the event as an enormous success. “More than 350 general aviation aircraft flew in for the inaugural AUSFLY event”, Andrew said. "It surpassed our expectations and we are ecstatic about the warm welcome and friendship extended to us by the SAAA at their home airport”. As a major co-supporter, AOPA contributed extensive advertising of the event in the Australian Pilot magazine, as well as by e-mail and through its website.
“It’s clear that many AOPA members responded to our call and took part in a fun, safe and educational weekend.” Andrew said. “We’ve had many comments in support of our involvement and look forward to joining again with leading GA organisations at the next AUSFLY event”
As well as its role in publicising the event, AOPA also coordinated the delivery of aviation safety seminars for all attendees with the support of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). Along with other personnel, CASA provided expert aviation safety advisors.
AUSFLY also featured many other learning opportunities covering engine operation and technology, avionics, the latest iPad products for flight planning, and amateur sport aircraft builders.
Many attendees camped at least one night at Narromine Airport, where AUSFLY was held. The Narromine Council, which is very forward-thinking about general aviation, strongly supported the event and the demand for accommodation flowed over to the nearby regional centre of Dubbo.
“The excellent facilities at Narromine and near-perfect weather have made for a memorable event”, Andrew said.
Much of the event was supported by a small army of volunteers. Particularly notable was the outstanding UNICOM service provided by three volunteer air traffic controllers, who gave their time freely and provided an advisory service for aircraft arriving, departing and taking part in the airshow events and display flights.
An exhibit hall provided space to commercial businesses to market and promote aviation products including aircraft insurance, accessories, software, propellers and other components, avionics and new sport and business aircraft. Several exhibitors indicated that they regarded the event as a commercial success, with sales and prospective customers in abundance thanks to the large attendance.
In his address to 250 attendees at the event gala dinner, Andrew Andersen highlighted the importance of GA organisations working together. “There is a certain esprit among aviators, and those who have come to AUSFLY are no exception. We all share the sky, we all deal with the weather and we are all enthusiastic about our flight experience and opportunities ahead.” Andrew said.
“It’s easy to be dominated by half-informed emotional negativity. Doing is harder than complaining. AOPA is working hard to represent the interests of everyone actively involved in general aviation. We appreciate immensely the support of our members and the friendship of great kindred organisations such as SAAA and AWAL.” he concluded.
for more information about AOPA, and its role in the AUSFLY event, e-mail [email protected] or call 02 9791 9099.
AOPA Online : Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association of Australia
AUSFLY, the fly-in event for general aviation aircraft and pilots, was held over the weekend of 14-16 September at Narromine, NSW. The event was organised by the Sport Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA) and co-supported by the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of Australia (AOPA) and the Australian Warbirds Association (AWAL).
AOPA President Andrew Andersen praised the event as an enormous success. “More than 350 general aviation aircraft flew in for the inaugural AUSFLY event”, Andrew said. "It surpassed our expectations and we are ecstatic about the warm welcome and friendship extended to us by the SAAA at their home airport”. As a major co-supporter, AOPA contributed extensive advertising of the event in the Australian Pilot magazine, as well as by e-mail and through its website.
“It’s clear that many AOPA members responded to our call and took part in a fun, safe and educational weekend.” Andrew said. “We’ve had many comments in support of our involvement and look forward to joining again with leading GA organisations at the next AUSFLY event”
As well as its role in publicising the event, AOPA also coordinated the delivery of aviation safety seminars for all attendees with the support of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). Along with other personnel, CASA provided expert aviation safety advisors.
AUSFLY also featured many other learning opportunities covering engine operation and technology, avionics, the latest iPad products for flight planning, and amateur sport aircraft builders.
Many attendees camped at least one night at Narromine Airport, where AUSFLY was held. The Narromine Council, which is very forward-thinking about general aviation, strongly supported the event and the demand for accommodation flowed over to the nearby regional centre of Dubbo.
“The excellent facilities at Narromine and near-perfect weather have made for a memorable event”, Andrew said.
Much of the event was supported by a small army of volunteers. Particularly notable was the outstanding UNICOM service provided by three volunteer air traffic controllers, who gave their time freely and provided an advisory service for aircraft arriving, departing and taking part in the airshow events and display flights.
An exhibit hall provided space to commercial businesses to market and promote aviation products including aircraft insurance, accessories, software, propellers and other components, avionics and new sport and business aircraft. Several exhibitors indicated that they regarded the event as a commercial success, with sales and prospective customers in abundance thanks to the large attendance.
In his address to 250 attendees at the event gala dinner, Andrew Andersen highlighted the importance of GA organisations working together. “There is a certain esprit among aviators, and those who have come to AUSFLY are no exception. We all share the sky, we all deal with the weather and we are all enthusiastic about our flight experience and opportunities ahead.” Andrew said.
“It’s easy to be dominated by half-informed emotional negativity. Doing is harder than complaining. AOPA is working hard to represent the interests of everyone actively involved in general aviation. We appreciate immensely the support of our members and the friendship of great kindred organisations such as SAAA and AWAL.” he concluded.
for more information about AOPA, and its role in the AUSFLY event, e-mail [email protected] or call 02 9791 9099.
Grandpa Aerotart
Hey Leadsled - Bill, I just spoke to the person who organized the event (in charge of organising at least - many people contributed i am sure) and he reckons he's never spoken to you...and that you are full of $hit.
So stop stirring.
So stop stirring.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 4th Oct 2012 at 00:47.
Folks,
I guess next year will tell the story, and see who is right and who is wrong. Whether it is the same, expanded or contracts next year.
To suggest that Ausfly, this year, was representative of an "industry" is really stretching it a bit, unless it was an example of a sector of aviation in crisis, which is close to the real world situation. The trade presence was sparse.
While the great division between RA Oz aircraft and "the rest" continues, and the "traditional GA" supporters continue to regard RA Oz as not quite legitimate, we have no hope of even having a pale imitation of Oshkosh.
As for being part of the answer, I have made my views well enough known, in all the appropriate venues, over many years, and anybody who actually knows me, knows I am not "part of the problem". It sound to me like a few posters here are a bit short on history, which bedevils this whole issue. And a bit short on the history of how Natfly came to stay and greatly expand at Narromine, before a much changed (for the worse) local council was outbid by Temora.
In fact, the nastiness of some of the posts directed at me, for having the temerity to suggest other that all is not well with the aviation world, just illustrates one of the problems in Australian aviation. You simply do not see such knee jerk vilification on equivalent web sites in NZ or other parts of the world.
On a separate but closely related issue, I am of the opinion that the policy positions being taken by SAAA and some in CASA has the potential to seriously restrict amateur building and take us back to 101.28 like days. The mandatory maintenance qualification, that has nothing to do with actual maintenance of amateur built aircraft, but is all about often irrelevant administration and paperwork, with a hefty price tag attached, including mandatory membership of SAAA is, I fear, the first tangible example of this trend.
We are rapidly departing from the freedoms brought by Part 21 in 1998, and returning to a more regulated environment, all without any justification, other than this is "The Australian Way".
Tootle pip!!
PS: There was more than "one organizer" of Ausfly, and as for the AOPA statement, what did you expect Andrew to say, given the major contribution by AOPA, made with high but entirely reasonable hopes??
As I have previously posted, Ausfly should be regarded as a success for a first up, but future years? We will see.
Who read the SAAA "press release" after the event, AWAL and AOPA didn't even rate a mention ---- what does that tell you??
I guess next year will tell the story, and see who is right and who is wrong. Whether it is the same, expanded or contracts next year.
To suggest that Ausfly, this year, was representative of an "industry" is really stretching it a bit, unless it was an example of a sector of aviation in crisis, which is close to the real world situation. The trade presence was sparse.
While the great division between RA Oz aircraft and "the rest" continues, and the "traditional GA" supporters continue to regard RA Oz as not quite legitimate, we have no hope of even having a pale imitation of Oshkosh.
As for being part of the answer, I have made my views well enough known, in all the appropriate venues, over many years, and anybody who actually knows me, knows I am not "part of the problem". It sound to me like a few posters here are a bit short on history, which bedevils this whole issue. And a bit short on the history of how Natfly came to stay and greatly expand at Narromine, before a much changed (for the worse) local council was outbid by Temora.
In fact, the nastiness of some of the posts directed at me, for having the temerity to suggest other that all is not well with the aviation world, just illustrates one of the problems in Australian aviation. You simply do not see such knee jerk vilification on equivalent web sites in NZ or other parts of the world.
On a separate but closely related issue, I am of the opinion that the policy positions being taken by SAAA and some in CASA has the potential to seriously restrict amateur building and take us back to 101.28 like days. The mandatory maintenance qualification, that has nothing to do with actual maintenance of amateur built aircraft, but is all about often irrelevant administration and paperwork, with a hefty price tag attached, including mandatory membership of SAAA is, I fear, the first tangible example of this trend.
We are rapidly departing from the freedoms brought by Part 21 in 1998, and returning to a more regulated environment, all without any justification, other than this is "The Australian Way".
Tootle pip!!
PS: There was more than "one organizer" of Ausfly, and as for the AOPA statement, what did you expect Andrew to say, given the major contribution by AOPA, made with high but entirely reasonable hopes??
As I have previously posted, Ausfly should be regarded as a success for a first up, but future years? We will see.
Who read the SAAA "press release" after the event, AWAL and AOPA didn't even rate a mention ---- what does that tell you??
Last edited by LeadSled; 4th Oct 2012 at 03:08.
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Leadie
What SAAA press release? Are you talking about Martin Ongleys President newsletter that is emailed out to the SAAA members?
I did a EDIT/FIND and entered AOPA, the first hit in a 5 page PDF came up with this, and I quote.....
Ohhh and the BOLDING was in the newsletter, not mine, so jam that in ya pipe mate!
Now onto the bit about, who was involved....you clearly have no clue at the truth. The major paties contributed what they were able to, where their respective strengths were, and I can tell you for a fact all the financial underwriting was done by SAAA. The generous help of the major contributors (including AOPA) and sponsors was mind blowing. And yet again you would not have a clue.
It is a shame you did not get to hear the speech by the (our - I am a member there too)AOPA president. You should be proud of his great work
Now you are correct, this is a seperate matter, but it is TOTALLY UNRELATED, The only relation is SAAA being the underwriting contributor to AUSFLY. And a closing comment there, once again you have no idea what you are talking about.
The rest of your paragraph
Well that shows a distinct lack of understanding of what really is going on. Have you attended an MPC course? The answer is no, so lets move along, the vast majority of those who have, like me, found it often a dry subject matter, because it is, but we all learned many things that not only may make a difference in maintenance safety, but also retain value in our aircraft. Would you buy an aircraft with poorly or non existent maintenance records or details? No way.
Mandatory SAAA membership, no it is not mandatory to be or keep membership with your MPC, unlike AWAL or RAAus which is mandatory. So you are wrong again. The SAAA has a requirement for attendees to be covered by SAAA insurance, and for that they need to be a member. Simple as that. If you want to do a MPC course from another approved training organisation that is fine with CASA and SAAA, go for it. Heck start one yourself!
Once again you have been found out to be wrong, starting muck raking and serving no useful purpose to anything constructive. Telling mistruths is not something a person of high stature like yourself should be doing. I hate to say this but I do not sit here advising QANTAS on how they should structure all their internal flight operations departments, maintenance and training programmes, so how about you stick to what you know, and I will stick to what I know. I will try not to be an expert in your back yard in return
Hefty price tag? You have got to be kidding, if it were in 1972, yes, but in 2012, you are kidding. In fact it is done for too little. The price should be higher, and for the long term members in particular. I paid too little. I would like to see you tell George Braly or Walter Atkinson they charge too much a hefty price for their course
It is only slightly more, but that includes some meals. Interesting to note, all of the airline guys I have spoken to about the MPC actually rave about it, we think they are sick twisted individuals, but surprisingly they gained a lot and appreciated its worth. I could dig up written quotes, but you can just trust me.
On a closing note, and this will be the end of the debate on this thread at least, what I saw recently was a VH registered Jabiru ramped in Qld, the MR was 3 years out of date, when the CASA FOI asked have you done an MPC and the response was, whats that? It just proved one thing to me. Being someone who wants to enjoy extra privileges from the experimental category, it is your responsibility to stay up to speed. And the best way to do that is be a member of the organisation that best represents that group. Wouldn't you agree that being a SAAA member would have provided much education material over time on the owners responsibilities, the need for education on Maintenance Proceedures, and having up to date MR's?
I guess it is OK for AWAL membership to be compulsory. I guess it is OK for RAAus membership to be compulsory. I guess it is just fortunate that my AOPA and SAAA membership is voluntary and I pay all of them without being a tight arsed miserable sod like some folk do.
Now go focus your energies where they will do some good, and stop white anting the good work done by so many others with comments that are so far from accurate and are factually incorrect.
Thread drift OFF!
Hey Griffo.......... Now that we have that all sorted, the garmin gadget is the GLO
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=109827&ra=true
What SAAA press release? Are you talking about Martin Ongleys President newsletter that is emailed out to the SAAA members?
I did a EDIT/FIND and entered AOPA, the first hit in a 5 page PDF came up with this, and I quote.....
The dinner was attended by various dignitaries both from the local Narromine area as well as leaders of our sporting aviation groups. It was great to have members from AWAL, AOPA, RAAus and the SAAA all together under the one roof. Once the wine and plane stories started flowing, you couldn’t hear yourself think. A big thanks to the local caterer for the splendid food and for David Brown who stepped up to the plate to MC for the evening.
The guest speakers were all marvelous & had us laughing and crying with their aviation tales. Live music was by Ellen, Travis & Andrew - the only complaint was that there wasn’t enough of them playing and some of us missed their performance completely due to the raucous behaviour in the queue at the bar.
The guest speakers were all marvelous & had us laughing and crying with their aviation tales. Live music was by Ellen, Travis & Andrew - the only complaint was that there wasn’t enough of them playing and some of us missed their performance completely due to the raucous behaviour in the queue at the bar.
Now onto the bit about, who was involved....you clearly have no clue at the truth. The major paties contributed what they were able to, where their respective strengths were, and I can tell you for a fact all the financial underwriting was done by SAAA. The generous help of the major contributors (including AOPA) and sponsors was mind blowing. And yet again you would not have a clue.
It is a shame you did not get to hear the speech by the (our - I am a member there too)AOPA president. You should be proud of his great work
On a separate but closely related issue, I am of the opinion that the policy positions being taken by SAAA and some in CASA has the potential to seriously restrict amateur building and take us back to 101.28 like days.
The rest of your paragraph
The mandatory maintenance qualification, that has nothing to do with actual maintenance of amateur built aircraft, but is all about often irrelevant administration and paperwork, with a hefty price tag attached, including mandatory membership of SAAA is, I fear, the first tangible example of this trend.
Mandatory SAAA membership, no it is not mandatory to be or keep membership with your MPC, unlike AWAL or RAAus which is mandatory. So you are wrong again. The SAAA has a requirement for attendees to be covered by SAAA insurance, and for that they need to be a member. Simple as that. If you want to do a MPC course from another approved training organisation that is fine with CASA and SAAA, go for it. Heck start one yourself!
Once again you have been found out to be wrong, starting muck raking and serving no useful purpose to anything constructive. Telling mistruths is not something a person of high stature like yourself should be doing. I hate to say this but I do not sit here advising QANTAS on how they should structure all their internal flight operations departments, maintenance and training programmes, so how about you stick to what you know, and I will stick to what I know. I will try not to be an expert in your back yard in return
Hefty price tag? You have got to be kidding, if it were in 1972, yes, but in 2012, you are kidding. In fact it is done for too little. The price should be higher, and for the long term members in particular. I paid too little. I would like to see you tell George Braly or Walter Atkinson they charge too much a hefty price for their course
It is only slightly more, but that includes some meals. Interesting to note, all of the airline guys I have spoken to about the MPC actually rave about it, we think they are sick twisted individuals, but surprisingly they gained a lot and appreciated its worth. I could dig up written quotes, but you can just trust me.On a closing note, and this will be the end of the debate on this thread at least, what I saw recently was a VH registered Jabiru ramped in Qld, the MR was 3 years out of date, when the CASA FOI asked have you done an MPC and the response was, whats that? It just proved one thing to me. Being someone who wants to enjoy extra privileges from the experimental category, it is your responsibility to stay up to speed. And the best way to do that is be a member of the organisation that best represents that group. Wouldn't you agree that being a SAAA member would have provided much education material over time on the owners responsibilities, the need for education on Maintenance Proceedures, and having up to date MR's?
I guess it is OK for AWAL membership to be compulsory. I guess it is OK for RAAus membership to be compulsory. I guess it is just fortunate that my AOPA and SAAA membership is voluntary and I pay all of them without being a tight arsed miserable sod like some folk do.
Now go focus your energies where they will do some good, and stop white anting the good work done by so many others with comments that are so far from accurate and are factually incorrect.
Thread drift OFF!
Hey Griffo.......... Now that we have that all sorted, the garmin gadget is the GLO
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=109827&ra=true
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Natfly came to stay and greatly expand at Narromine, before a much changed (for the worse) local council was outbid by Temora.
Wouldn't you agree that being a SAAA member would have provided much education material over time on the owners responsibilities, the need for education on Maintenance Proceedures,(sic) and having up to date MR's?
I am all in favour of meaningful education, what I object strongly to is a situation where a legislative instrument is used to guarantee a cash flow to SAAA.
The EAA in the US does a wonderful job, all without regulatory compulsion. The services it make available to members doesn't need the force of law (and threats of two years goal/jail) for people to take up what they need. It is all about personal responsibility, and if some clown has a way illegal aircraft, jump on him or her with both feet --- don't impose on the law abiding.
By why, now, after all the years since 1998, with no demonstrated problem, and all the freedoms of the US system, are we regressing, this is the most visible step.
Whether you know it or not, there are those who are proposing that continues validity of your maintenance authority for your pride and joy will require continued membership of SAAA.
This is the sort of thing that inhibited amateur building in Australia before 1998, it would be a tragedy for the movement to regress, but it is happening.
No, I have not done the course, but I do k now the history of the course, where it originated, as an anomaly with a small group who refused to have anything to do with post-1998 rules, you should find out the history.
As for the course content, there is nothing in it with which I am not very familiar, and hence I am able to say two things, firstly, every amateur builder with whom I am closely acquainted ( and that's quite a few) has already developed a good working knowledge of the administrative needs of their project, and secondly, secondly, what is applicable to amateur builders (and that's not much) doesn't need a mandatory course.
For example, what in the name of common sense has ICAO Annex VIII got to do with amateur building, beyond the "nice to know, but not need to know" knowledge that it is completely inapplicable.
Back to Ausfly, I hope it succeeds, but the odds are against it ---- so far not one of you has commented about the gulf between RAOz and "GA". Given the small size of the whole aviation sector, and the shrinking GA, not one of you has suggested joining forces for a truly all inclusive national show, one a year, might be a good idea.
It works at Oshkosh and Sun and Fun (even in the US, Sun and Fun is in trouble)
Last edited by LeadSled; 4th Oct 2012 at 07:05.
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No, this is not the thread to debate all sorts of silly ill-informed opinions of yours regarding SAAA and MPC courses.
Read your PM and get off this topic on this thread. I am going hit the ignore button very soon. You are trying my patience and my email and phone sms's from all the ppruners I know that are also sick of your thread destruction suggest I am not the one with a problem here.
You baiting me further will only get these sorts of replies. Its over Leadie, thread destruction is OVER mate!
Back to normal viewing folks
Read your PM and get off this topic on this thread. I am going hit the ignore button very soon. You are trying my patience and my email and phone sms's from all the ppruners I know that are also sick of your thread destruction suggest I am not the one with a problem here.
You baiting me further will only get these sorts of replies. Its over Leadie, thread destruction is OVER mate!
Back to normal viewing folks
Leadsled, you have form here and you are fast running out of associations that are prepared to have you. Do you realy want to poop in their nest too?
Last edited by OZBUSDRIVER; 4th Oct 2012 at 08:46.