18 Years ago........today
Folks,
It is well worth a few minutes reading both the BASI report and Rod's article, and reflecting as to whether anything has changed to this day, except that BASA has become ATSB, and CASA and Airservices have emerged from the CAA.
Personally, I think Rod was made the public scapegoat for the many and varied deficiencies ---- but were any deficiencies his ---- I don't think so.
20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, we are all wise after the event.
It certainly wasn't in any way his fault that the aircraft was flying at all, it shouldn't have been flying. Discounting the drag of the unfeathered prop., stopped at 65-66 degrees, is just nonsense ---- if that hadn't happened, the performance would, in all probability, have got them all back on the ground in one piece.
I was very sad to see EDC come to such an unfortunate end, I did my final check for my DC-3 endorsement in this aeroplane. The right engine and prop, as recovered, sit at the Australian Aviation Museum, Bankstown, to this day.
Tootle pip!!
It is well worth a few minutes reading both the BASI report and Rod's article, and reflecting as to whether anything has changed to this day, except that BASA has become ATSB, and CASA and Airservices have emerged from the CAA.
Personally, I think Rod was made the public scapegoat for the many and varied deficiencies ---- but were any deficiencies his ---- I don't think so.
20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, we are all wise after the event.
It certainly wasn't in any way his fault that the aircraft was flying at all, it shouldn't have been flying. Discounting the drag of the unfeathered prop., stopped at 65-66 degrees, is just nonsense ---- if that hadn't happened, the performance would, in all probability, have got them all back on the ground in one piece.
I was very sad to see EDC come to such an unfortunate end, I did my final check for my DC-3 endorsement in this aeroplane. The right engine and prop, as recovered, sit at the Australian Aviation Museum, Bankstown, to this day.
Tootle pip!!
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Left hand propeller
From the picture in the hangar, it would be interesting to know exactly why the LHE did not fully feather
and
Ask the question as to the contents of the prop book and if the springs/ feathering system etc. properly worked when the engine prop was feathered??
Was the work done properly??
Was the Left hand prop failure to fully feather, the reason for the extra drag and the failure to produce max climb rate from the remaining engine??
What's in the report??
from BASI??
Avid readers, over to you.
and
Ask the question as to the contents of the prop book and if the springs/ feathering system etc. properly worked when the engine prop was feathered??
Was the work done properly??
Was the Left hand prop failure to fully feather, the reason for the extra drag and the failure to produce max climb rate from the remaining engine??
What's in the report??
from BASI??
Avid readers, over to you.
Personally, I think Rod was made the public scapegoat for the many and varied deficiencies ---- but were any deficiencies his ---- I don't think so.
Last edited by dogcharlietree; 28th Apr 2012 at 23:35.
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Judging by the position of the member of the flight crew at the front of the aircraft it does indeed look like the earlier post was correct about one of them not getting their feet wet during the entire exercise!
Just remember that this accident happened at nearly the same time as the Monarch and Seaview accidents. The CAA was fighting for survival and had to produce a "head on a block" to appease the public. Rod's was handed to them by a deposed DC3 C&T captain (Mr DC3).
Aviation safety regulation timeline 1982-2011 – Parliament of Australia
.....
April 1996
CASA board members rejected calls for their resignations from the new Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon John Sharp MP.
Australian, 20 April 1996, 10 July 1997
CASA board members rejected calls for their resignations from the new Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon John Sharp MP.
Australian, 20 April 1996, 10 July 1997
6 June 1996
NSW Coroner John Gould handed down findings into the 1993 Monarch Airlines crash critical of the airline, the former CAA and the NSW Air Transport Council. The Minister (Mr John Sharp) foreshadowed a review and other actions to address the report's recommendations.
Canberra Times, 7 June 1996; Minister for Transport Media Statement, 6 June 1996 TR46/96.
25 June 1996
The Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon John Sharp MP announced reviews of the regulatory framework and role in an aviation safety ministerial statement. He also introduced the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill 1996 to increase the CASA Board size from four to six people. While the Opposition supported the Bill, it questioned the motives.
House of Representatives, Debates, 25 June 1996, p. 2653.
NSW Coroner John Gould handed down findings into the 1993 Monarch Airlines crash critical of the airline, the former CAA and the NSW Air Transport Council. The Minister (Mr John Sharp) foreshadowed a review and other actions to address the report's recommendations.
Canberra Times, 7 June 1996; Minister for Transport Media Statement, 6 June 1996 TR46/96.
25 June 1996
The Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon John Sharp MP announced reviews of the regulatory framework and role in an aviation safety ministerial statement. He also introduced the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill 1996 to increase the CASA Board size from four to six people. While the Opposition supported the Bill, it questioned the motives.
House of Representatives, Debates, 25 June 1996, p. 2653.
26 September 1996
The Minister for Transport and Regional Development announced an industry-based panel to oversee the CASA regulatory review headed by Ansett's Mr James Kimpton. The review produced recommendations that could be implemented in 1998, while reporting monthly.
Minister for Transport Media Statement 20 and 26 September 1996, TR101 and 110/96.
8 October 1996
The (Staunton) Report of the Commissioner of the Commission of Inquiry into the Relations Between the CAA and Seaview Air was particularly scathing of CAA operations and identified a number of systemic problems. Recommendations included action against two CAA officers, and suggested mechanisms for responsibility, accountability and documentation. The minister urged changes to CASA and its management board positions. BASI undertook a separate investigation of the incident.
House of Representatives, Debates, 8 and 9 October 1996, p. 5046; Sydney Morning Herald and Australian 9 October 1996.
10 October 1996
The CASA Board released a media statement in relation to certain findings of the Seaview inquiry and lamenting comments about it made by the minister in Parliament.
Australian, 12 October 1996; Sydney Morning Herald, 10 October 1996.
30 October 1996
A large newspaper advertisement with 512 listed names published, later found to be sponsored by the Aircraft Owners' and Pilots' Association, requested the CASA board members to stand aside. It followed the publication of a letter by the CASA Chairman stating why the board should remain in full control despite Ministerial denigration. Meanwhile, CASA developed a program known as Airspace 2000 planned for introduction in 1998. The scheme aimed to achieve an ICAO standard with the use of systems safety, harmonisation and staged delivery.
Australian, 21, 23, 25 and 30 October 1996; Canberra Times, 23 and 31 October 1996.
3 November 1996
Falcon Airlines plane crashed into the sea off Cairns with the occupants safely reaching the shore. The subsequent report by David Wheelahan QC found a possible conflict of interest between CASA, the airline and Minister John Sharp. The Minister had sought an independent report after stating that a response from CASA was inadequate.
AAP, 18 February 1997; Canberra Times, 8 November 1996.
The Minister for Transport and Regional Development announced an industry-based panel to oversee the CASA regulatory review headed by Ansett's Mr James Kimpton. The review produced recommendations that could be implemented in 1998, while reporting monthly.
Minister for Transport Media Statement 20 and 26 September 1996, TR101 and 110/96.
8 October 1996
The (Staunton) Report of the Commissioner of the Commission of Inquiry into the Relations Between the CAA and Seaview Air was particularly scathing of CAA operations and identified a number of systemic problems. Recommendations included action against two CAA officers, and suggested mechanisms for responsibility, accountability and documentation. The minister urged changes to CASA and its management board positions. BASI undertook a separate investigation of the incident.
House of Representatives, Debates, 8 and 9 October 1996, p. 5046; Sydney Morning Herald and Australian 9 October 1996.
10 October 1996
The CASA Board released a media statement in relation to certain findings of the Seaview inquiry and lamenting comments about it made by the minister in Parliament.
Australian, 12 October 1996; Sydney Morning Herald, 10 October 1996.
30 October 1996
A large newspaper advertisement with 512 listed names published, later found to be sponsored by the Aircraft Owners' and Pilots' Association, requested the CASA board members to stand aside. It followed the publication of a letter by the CASA Chairman stating why the board should remain in full control despite Ministerial denigration. Meanwhile, CASA developed a program known as Airspace 2000 planned for introduction in 1998. The scheme aimed to achieve an ICAO standard with the use of systems safety, harmonisation and staged delivery.
Australian, 21, 23, 25 and 30 October 1996; Canberra Times, 23 and 31 October 1996.
3 November 1996
Falcon Airlines plane crashed into the sea off Cairns with the occupants safely reaching the shore. The subsequent report by David Wheelahan QC found a possible conflict of interest between CASA, the airline and Minister John Sharp. The Minister had sought an independent report after stating that a response from CASA was inadequate.
AAP, 18 February 1997; Canberra Times, 8 November 1996.
19 November 1996
Concerns expressed in the letter of resignation of the CASA Director of Aviation Medicine Dr Robert Liddell, caused the Minister to ask the Board to reconsider safety.
Minister for Transport, Media Statement TR152/96; Age, 27 November 1996.
5 December 1996
Government response to the Plane Safe report tabled by the Minister for Transport and Regional Development the Hon John Sharp MP. (Refer to 14 December 1995). It included a monthly CASA update on safety breaches. The Senate decided to investigate the purchase of Australia's new search and rescue equipment after faults were found.
Minister for Transport, Media Statement TR167/96; Australian, 6 and 9 December 1996; Age 6 December 1996.
February 1997
Vigorous debates in Parliament regarding CASA Board placements by Transport Minister John Sharp, who continued his criticism of the CASA Board in response to the Wheelahan report and Kimpton inquiry.
Australian, 13, 15 and 17 February 1997.
March 1997
CASA controversy continued with the Report on the Purchase of the Precision Aerial Delivery Systems (PADS) by Airservices Australia by the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee in March 1997. The report urged the Government to request CASA to address problems highlighted in a report completed by Turtleair regarding search and rescue practices. The June 1997 Government Response to the committee report indicated that resolution of the matters was in hand.
Canberra Times, 14 May 1997.
19 March 1997
Parliament debated the Aviation Legislation Amendment Bill (No.1) 1997 to allow for environmental standards at airports and establish a register of encumbered aircraft.
House of Representatives, Debates p. 1834.
6 May 1997
After new legislation expanded the CASA board to seven positions, Mr Dick Smith was appointed CASA Deputy Chairman under Chairman Justice William Fischer. Mr Laurence Foley joined the board. In June, Ms Gabi Hollows and Captain Molloy retired to be replaced by Dr Paul Scully-Power and Mr Bruce Byron.
Australian, 10 July 1997.
Concerns expressed in the letter of resignation of the CASA Director of Aviation Medicine Dr Robert Liddell, caused the Minister to ask the Board to reconsider safety.
Minister for Transport, Media Statement TR152/96; Age, 27 November 1996.
5 December 1996
Government response to the Plane Safe report tabled by the Minister for Transport and Regional Development the Hon John Sharp MP. (Refer to 14 December 1995). It included a monthly CASA update on safety breaches. The Senate decided to investigate the purchase of Australia's new search and rescue equipment after faults were found.
Minister for Transport, Media Statement TR167/96; Australian, 6 and 9 December 1996; Age 6 December 1996.
February 1997
Vigorous debates in Parliament regarding CASA Board placements by Transport Minister John Sharp, who continued his criticism of the CASA Board in response to the Wheelahan report and Kimpton inquiry.
Australian, 13, 15 and 17 February 1997.
March 1997
CASA controversy continued with the Report on the Purchase of the Precision Aerial Delivery Systems (PADS) by Airservices Australia by the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee in March 1997. The report urged the Government to request CASA to address problems highlighted in a report completed by Turtleair regarding search and rescue practices. The June 1997 Government Response to the committee report indicated that resolution of the matters was in hand.
Canberra Times, 14 May 1997.
19 March 1997
Parliament debated the Aviation Legislation Amendment Bill (No.1) 1997 to allow for environmental standards at airports and establish a register of encumbered aircraft.
House of Representatives, Debates p. 1834.
6 May 1997
After new legislation expanded the CASA board to seven positions, Mr Dick Smith was appointed CASA Deputy Chairman under Chairman Justice William Fischer. Mr Laurence Foley joined the board. In June, Ms Gabi Hollows and Captain Molloy retired to be replaced by Dr Paul Scully-Power and Mr Bruce Byron.
Australian, 10 July 1997.
CASA Director of Aviation Medicine Dr Robert Liddell, caused the Minister to ask the Board to reconsider safety.
Excerpt from that letter:
I am in conscience obliged to resign as I have lost confidence in the senior management’s ability to maintain aviation safety. I wish to place on record the reasons for my loss of confidence.
The Office of Aviation Medicine like many other areas within the Authority is a highly specialised unit. The lack of consultation or opportunity to discuss many of the directives and changes which impact on this office, and other offices of the Authority, has eroded staff morale and wasted hundreds of hours of valuable time in dealing with the issues. Furthermore, despite written requests for a response to assist in resolving conflicts on matters of importance, there has been no reply from your office.
This approach is consistent with that demonstrated on several occasions over the last year when the Office of Aviation Medicine has received written directives from your office which as a result of a lack of any prior communication were either inappropriate, factually wrong and not in the best interests of aviation safety in Australia.
The Office of Aviation Medicine like many other areas within the Authority is a highly specialised unit. The lack of consultation or opportunity to discuss many of the directives and changes which impact on this office, and other offices of the Authority, has eroded staff morale and wasted hundreds of hours of valuable time in dealing with the issues. Furthermore, despite written requests for a response to assist in resolving conflicts on matters of importance, there has been no reply from your office.
This approach is consistent with that demonstrated on several occasions over the last year when the Office of Aviation Medicine has received written directives from your office which as a result of a lack of any prior communication were either inappropriate, factually wrong and not in the best interests of aviation safety in Australia.
26 August 1997
Broderick/Willoughby report into the relationship between the Director of Aviation Safety and the CASA Board made recommendations on corporate governance.
House of Representatives, Debates, p. 2288, 12 October 2000.
12 September 1997
CASA also considered the Airspace 2000 proposal of Mr Dick Smith, but deferred it for a year, following lengthy aviation industry objections, even though ASA had approved it on 4 April for implementation on 4 December.
Australian Aviation, October 1997; BP10/98, NPRM 9701RP.
26 September 1997
CASA Director Mr Leroy Keith left after the Board passed a no-confidence motion in his management strategy. Chairman Justice William Fischer and member Dr Clare Pollock both resigned in protest at the Board's handling of the former Director. The New Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon Mark Vaile MP, replaced Mr John Sharp.
Australian Financial Review, 26 September 1997, 7 October 1997.
Broderick/Willoughby report into the relationship between the Director of Aviation Safety and the CASA Board made recommendations on corporate governance.
House of Representatives, Debates, p. 2288, 12 October 2000.
12 September 1997
CASA also considered the Airspace 2000 proposal of Mr Dick Smith, but deferred it for a year, following lengthy aviation industry objections, even though ASA had approved it on 4 April for implementation on 4 December.
Australian Aviation, October 1997; BP10/98, NPRM 9701RP.
26 September 1997
CASA Director Mr Leroy Keith left after the Board passed a no-confidence motion in his management strategy. Chairman Justice William Fischer and member Dr Clare Pollock both resigned in protest at the Board's handling of the former Director. The New Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon Mark Vaile MP, replaced Mr John Sharp.
Australian Financial Review, 26 September 1997, 7 October 1997.
9 October 1997
CASA produced Systems for Safety: Reviewing Systems in Civil Aviation Safety. This was a report on the safety standards of charter and low-capacity regular passenger transport operators and followed on the concerns expressed in the Plane Safe report. The report's 22 recommendations had accompanying implementation actions and timeframes to be followed. The Civil Aviation Legislation Amendment Bill 1997 introduced in October aimed to simplify the continuous passenger liability insurance arrangements.
CASA Public Report; Australian Aviation August 1998.
28 November 1997
A Report to the Minister of Transport and Regional Development from the Program Advisory Panel regarding its oversight of the CASA Regulatory Framework and Regulatory Role Programs in the CASA Reviews noted substantial outcomes in respect of draft rules and standards since 1996. This independent (Kimpton) panel foresaw continued consultation and regulatory review ahead, while noting that the Regulatory Framework Program would ensure implementation of the Plane Safe recommendations, as well as aspects of the Seaview Commission in line with international standards.
Australian Aviation, November 1997.
CASA produced Systems for Safety: Reviewing Systems in Civil Aviation Safety. This was a report on the safety standards of charter and low-capacity regular passenger transport operators and followed on the concerns expressed in the Plane Safe report. The report's 22 recommendations had accompanying implementation actions and timeframes to be followed. The Civil Aviation Legislation Amendment Bill 1997 introduced in October aimed to simplify the continuous passenger liability insurance arrangements.
CASA Public Report; Australian Aviation August 1998.
28 November 1997
A Report to the Minister of Transport and Regional Development from the Program Advisory Panel regarding its oversight of the CASA Regulatory Framework and Regulatory Role Programs in the CASA Reviews noted substantial outcomes in respect of draft rules and standards since 1996. This independent (Kimpton) panel foresaw continued consultation and regulatory review ahead, while noting that the Regulatory Framework Program would ensure implementation of the Plane Safe recommendations, as well as aspects of the Seaview Commission in line with international standards.
Australian Aviation, November 1997.
24 December 1997
Mr Dick Smith appointed as Chairman of CASA and went on to centralise the authority and close some district offices. Dr Paul Scully-Power became Deputy Chairman, and Mr Michael Ryan and Mr Tony Pyne joined the Board. On 28 August
Mr Dick Smith appointed as Chairman of CASA and went on to centralise the authority and close some district offices. Dr Paul Scully-Power became Deputy Chairman, and Mr Michael Ryan and Mr Tony Pyne joined the Board. On 28 August
Last edited by Sarcs; 29th Apr 2012 at 06:18.
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XXX
I would imagine a longer time to plan for the ditching... and a longer time to wait for rescue..
Similiar situation... very different ending..
dda
Kris
I can only imagine what would have happened if it was half way to Norfolk Island when it failed!
Similiar situation... very different ending..
dda
Kris
Last edited by Kris Lovell; 29th Apr 2012 at 03:37. Reason: Another link...
He had a legal and morale obligation to assist in the evacuation of his passengers.
He DESERTED his passengers and fellow crew members in a time of need.
Yet all POB survived.
Care to explain the reasons for your personal hatred of the crew member to whom you and Trent 972 referred?
Care to explain the reasons for your personal hatred of the crew member to whom you and Trent 972 referred?
Someone who posts under the name ‘dogcharlietree’.