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CASA spends millions chasing Milton Jones aviation business

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CASA spends millions chasing Milton Jones aviation business

Old 30th Nov 2014, 18:04
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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They got gun racks instead! And banjos. I hear banjos......
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Old 30th Nov 2014, 19:43
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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I like the 'walk the line' test. At least it puts the onus on the driver to prove he/she can hold his/her booze. Practical law enforcement.
Instead we have an arbitrary limit imposed by a machine. At .049 you are safe to drive but at .050 a little switch trips in everyone's brain and we all become totally incompetent. That whole approach to the law is typical of aviation regulation.
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Old 30th Nov 2014, 21:52
  #203 (permalink)  
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You mean that horrible arbitrary limit supported by solid science and decades of research?
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Old 30th Nov 2014, 22:26
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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WAC - You mean that horrible arbitrary limit supported by solid science and decades of research?
Invoking the great god, science, that'll shut everyone up
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Old 30th Nov 2014, 23:23
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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If everyone is affected exactly the same, how come the anaesthetist is always interested in one's alcohol consumption? If you don't want to wake up half way through the procedure, it is probably better for once to admit to your real intake, not the one you tell the CASA medico.

Arbitrary limits in law, and aviation in particular, are everywhere. Take the windscreen heat inoperative bird impact speed limitation below 8000 feet AMSL which appears in so many flight manuals. Not AGL, but AMSL. Go figure. Science has obviously determined that birds have altimeters calibrated to sea level, or get so dizzy at 8000 feet that they never venture higher. On that subject, oxygen limitations. Pilots who fly regularly in the Andes do not always bother with it - despite the requirement in the AFM - even though they may be sitting on the ground for an hour's turnaround at 12,000 feet. Not many Twin Otter pilots bother with it at similar levels in PNG either. Even the smokers seem to be quite tolerant at those altitudes, yet science tells us they should be seriously hypoxic. But if I tried it - even as a fairly fit non smoker - I KNOW I would be useless. On the other hand, at .050 BAC I am still quite functional, notwithstanding any science. Years of practice ...... or a 'functioning alcoholic'?......hmmm.

Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 30th Nov 2014 at 23:54.
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 00:06
  #206 (permalink)  
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You might feel, functional, you may even appear functional to a casual observer, but testing will show significant degredation of reaction times and motor skills. These numbers are not pulled out of the air at random.

Statistical analysis is used to determine risk profiles and set standards. I bet if someone cares to dig they will discover a sharp drop off in bird strike risk somewhere below that 8000 limit. Doesn't mean risk is gone above, but means someone has determined the numbers are now low enough to reduce the risk profile and standards.
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 04:16
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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How is walking a straight line in any way an objective measure of alcohol induced impairment? It's just another bogus "standard" like lie detectors that they seem so fond of in the US. At least the great god science should have some objective evidence to back it up as opposed to anecdotes and self assessed gut feelings.

Flapping wings relies heavily on oxygen consumption which varies with atmospheric pressure so AMSL is a better general measure of where you'll find the birds than AGL, unless they're soaring.

MEA. The science says nothing of the sort. it's called acclimatisation - just ask any mountaineer or performance athlete. Such rules are by their nature there to endeavour to cover everyone. How would you measure your tolerance to altitude o any given day? Wait until you feel hypoxic? What about when you have a cold or minor lung infection?

As to alcohol, you might feel okay but have you objectively tested your cognitive ability or reactions? Again, what happens when you're tired or unwell?
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 05:08
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Some of the above appears to partly support my argument. That is, cognitive ability and tolerance to the effects of alcohol - or altitude - vary between individuals and even within the same individual on different days. Yet, rather than applying a practical test, we impose a fixed number.
Not saying that walking the straight line is the be-all and end-all of tests, but the cops at least have a starting point when they pull over someone suspected of DUI and decide how far they are going to press the issue. Our system cuts us no slack whatsoever.

Re the birds. Do you reckon a birdstrike is more likely over water at 8000 feet or over a mountainous area at 18000? (not talking the Australian 'Alps' but proper mountains). I have seen birds at high levels that would pose a far greater risk to a cold windscreen than your average seagull down low. Plus those pesky high flying Canadian Geese that most definitely are not soaring at flight levels over the tundra. They are flapping at N1 Max Cruise. The below 8000 ft limitation was unlikely to have been imposed as a result of any statistical analysis or assessment of whether birds could only flap their wings in the lower atmosphere - more likely someone simply did not get the words in the original certification standard right, and it has remained ever since.
I could go on with arbitrary numbers in aviation. Maximum altitude for flap or gear operation anyone? And why the same number for completely different aircraft types? These are certification standards which must be demonstrated by test, nothing more. The aircraft builder may test beyond those standards. Or may not. What dire results occur if you exceed it by 500ft? 1500ft? Not saying that anyone should deliberately exceed any limitation, but an understanding of how and why a limit is derived is sometimes useful.

Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 1st Dec 2014 at 06:11.
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 06:21
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Alcohol and altitude acclimatisation are entirely separate fish - you can't equate one with the other. How do you tell how affected someone is by alcohol without having an individual baseline to compare with? They might fail your subjective test stone cold sober.

Surely the 8000ft rule isn't about protection from all birdstrikes but to reduce risk. Hitting a large bird at whatever speed is going to be nasty, heated screen or not.
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 11:59
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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CASA spends millions chasing Milton Jones aviation business

............

Last edited by Radix; 18th Mar 2016 at 01:09.
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 18:40
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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You can still be done for impaired driving no matter what your BAC.

You guys really are missing the point. Rules such as the 8000ft heated/unheated are there to provide a degree of increased safety, not to eliminate all the risk. How would you as a pilot decide what a safe speed is when there are more than a few unknowns? You'd guess?
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