Paul Phelan 's latest
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How say you.
JQ may well be as guilty as sin, he may well be as pure as the Lamb. Who knows, or, better still, who cares.
This is not the question, not by a bloody long shot.
I would be the first to support a properly orchestrated CASA investigation and with proof positive (beyond reasonable doubt) as an acknowledged expert in the industry, fully support a safety related action. Indeed, there almost should be no need for the clever workings of skilled lawyers to argue the 'technical' malpractice. Perhaps the sentencing, perhaps the severity of the punishment and certainly the mans rights. This guy, right or wrong got stitched by the system, not the crime.
As has been said; a weak, vacillating industry gets exactly what it deserves.
You have got the regulator and the regulation suite you deserve, the question remains; what ?, in all the hells, are you going to do to fix this bloody awful mess. Eh?.
What ?. Whine on Prune, arrgh spare me.
Selah.
PS. Tks GDock, may the force be with you.
Glad you held the fort. 
For the fans (and critics). Henry VI, scene ii, Blacheath.
CADE. I thank you, good people: there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers and worship me their lord.
DICK. The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.t
This is not the question, not by a bloody long shot.
I would be the first to support a properly orchestrated CASA investigation and with proof positive (beyond reasonable doubt) as an acknowledged expert in the industry, fully support a safety related action. Indeed, there almost should be no need for the clever workings of skilled lawyers to argue the 'technical' malpractice. Perhaps the sentencing, perhaps the severity of the punishment and certainly the mans rights. This guy, right or wrong got stitched by the system, not the crime.
As has been said; a weak, vacillating industry gets exactly what it deserves.
You have got the regulator and the regulation suite you deserve, the question remains; what ?, in all the hells, are you going to do to fix this bloody awful mess. Eh?.
What ?. Whine on Prune, arrgh spare me.
Selah.
PS. Tks GDock, may the force be with you.
Glad you held the fort. For the fans (and critics). Henry VI, scene ii, Blacheath.
CADE. I thank you, good people: there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers and worship me their lord.
DICK. The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.t
Last edited by Kharon; 21st Nov 2011 at 11:43. Reason: Lynux v Bounce
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Thankyou all for your support
I have had so many phone calls emails from fellow aviators engineers and many people that i have flown over the years including government jobs.
I am so amazed by the support i am getting,it makes me realise there is nice people out there.I am amazed by the stories that i am being told by people who have been in the same situation as me.
I am gathering information to give to higher authorities so we can have a good look at the controlling bodies.
Any one who feels they have a story can email me.
Cheers John Quadrio
I am so amazed by the support i am getting,it makes me realise there is nice people out there.I am amazed by the stories that i am being told by people who have been in the same situation as me.
I am gathering information to give to higher authorities so we can have a good look at the controlling bodies.
Any one who feels they have a story can email me.
Cheers John Quadrio
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John there are certainly many many cases out there that mimic what you have been put through. I wish I could say you are the first and the last, but sadly that is not possible.
Hopefully Messr Phelan has been in personal contact with you, and by now you would be aware of who in the political world will actually take interest in your plight, there would be less than a handful of genuine politicians in Australia that have the testicular fortitude to be interested in your case, but it is something. There are also what I would call 'justice seeking champions' out there like Shane Urqhart and family members of some of those killed in the seaview accident who silently and sometimes not so silently let it be known that the fish has been rotting from the head for decades.
And that is the ironic twist isn't it? Lives have been lost, both physically, and materially (as in Johns case) and it would seem not a nights sleep is lost by those accountable and entrusted with upholding safety within Australian aviation. Human lives and people's dignity and reputation should not be allowed to be destroyed for no better reason than a mob of limp dick gutless vermin not having the strength and character to admit to being wrong or making a mistake.
The power does lay with the people, there would have to be at least 30 000 people alone directly employed within Australian aviation, and only 650 Fort Fumble incompetents, it is time for the people to gather enmass and force a change.
Hopefully Messr Phelan has been in personal contact with you, and by now you would be aware of who in the political world will actually take interest in your plight, there would be less than a handful of genuine politicians in Australia that have the testicular fortitude to be interested in your case, but it is something. There are also what I would call 'justice seeking champions' out there like Shane Urqhart and family members of some of those killed in the seaview accident who silently and sometimes not so silently let it be known that the fish has been rotting from the head for decades.
And that is the ironic twist isn't it? Lives have been lost, both physically, and materially (as in Johns case) and it would seem not a nights sleep is lost by those accountable and entrusted with upholding safety within Australian aviation. Human lives and people's dignity and reputation should not be allowed to be destroyed for no better reason than a mob of limp dick gutless vermin not having the strength and character to admit to being wrong or making a mistake.
The power does lay with the people, there would have to be at least 30 000 people alone directly employed within Australian aviation, and only 650 Fort Fumble incompetents, it is time for the people to gather enmass and force a change.
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The Buck stops here.
Been thinking and talking with 'grown ups' about the JQ case. I have tried to define why it deeply offends so many people, in so many ways.
For my money it's the 'manner' in which it was managed and prosecuted. This case should have been sorted out over a 'tea and biccies' chat between CP the FOI. If, (big if there) the FOI and CP believed there was a case to be answered perhaps it may have gone to the local manager; but it should have been sorted out long before an expensive 3 ring circus rolled into Dodge.
Since the current director has been in charge, managers are reaching for the RCA/ Show cause book when a mouse farts in hangar 13; are they on a quota or what?.
It's time the industry signed up on a single, short document. An industry wide call for the resignations of the people responsible for the management of the CASA. Not the clowns in the front office, they have to earn a living somewhere and good sheltered workshops, are hard to come by.
How about it ?. A simple petition signed by all would do the trick. Money where your hearts, minds and mouths are, or do 'they' have you by the balls.
Selah.
For my money it's the 'manner' in which it was managed and prosecuted. This case should have been sorted out over a 'tea and biccies' chat between CP the FOI. If, (big if there) the FOI and CP believed there was a case to be answered perhaps it may have gone to the local manager; but it should have been sorted out long before an expensive 3 ring circus rolled into Dodge.
Since the current director has been in charge, managers are reaching for the RCA/ Show cause book when a mouse farts in hangar 13; are they on a quota or what?.
It's time the industry signed up on a single, short document. An industry wide call for the resignations of the people responsible for the management of the CASA. Not the clowns in the front office, they have to earn a living somewhere and good sheltered workshops, are hard to come by.
How about it ?. A simple petition signed by all would do the trick. Money where your hearts, minds and mouths are, or do 'they' have you by the balls.
Selah.
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I agree. One of your posts I can follow, less cryptic 
As you have a way with words, draft away. If it is good enough there will be huge response.
Safety is a state of mind, not a book of regulations.
I think the modern world has lost sight of that.
As you have a way with words, draft away. If it is good enough there will be huge response.
Safety is a state of mind, not a book of regulations.
I think the modern world has lost sight of that.
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DRAFT AWAY
I'm with you Jaba - Kharon old son, draft (not draught)away. The KISS principle will do fine, keeping in mind the last para from your second last post.
It seems that most have "talked the talk", now time to write the write.
I'll put me two bobs worth in, or out, as the case may need.
I'm told there are some bargain priced sheltered workshops coming up shortly,
uniforms supplied (including boots with loud,clicking heels), pens and paper, paper clips etc available.
It seems that most have "talked the talk", now time to write the write.
I'll put me two bobs worth in, or out, as the case may need.
I'm told there are some bargain priced sheltered workshops coming up shortly,
uniforms supplied (including boots with loud,clicking heels), pens and paper, paper clips etc available.
petitions....
since they have to be formally preambled.? and correctly laid out or they go in the bin... how about those of legal mind set too, and make up the appropriate page/s that can be emailed to everybody in the GA industry, pilots, owners, engineers for signature.
Since we are all spread across the GAFA, the page/pages can be downloaded and signed by individuals or groups of, sent to a central location for collection, registering, collation, whatever and a full set sent off to....
the Governer-General
the Prime Minister
the Minister for Transport
the Senate... to be tabled
the House of Reps... to be tabled
and a precis detailing the demands of the Industry to every damned politician in the country, State and Federal.
At least then none can say "we didnt know what was going on"
And maybe delivered to Parliament House with a mass protest.
"WE the people of the Aviation Industry, having lost all faith in the regulator, due lack of governance, integrity or morality, and without practical sense or sanity in the regulatory laws, hereby demand.......etc, etc , whatever.
Kharon..? Anyone..? ps. Its very urgent.!
People out there more computer savvy will know a quicker way to get responses back.
Donations to where?
Since we are all spread across the GAFA, the page/pages can be downloaded and signed by individuals or groups of, sent to a central location for collection, registering, collation, whatever and a full set sent off to....
the Governer-General
the Prime Minister
the Minister for Transport
the Senate... to be tabled
the House of Reps... to be tabled
and a precis detailing the demands of the Industry to every damned politician in the country, State and Federal.
At least then none can say "we didnt know what was going on"
And maybe delivered to Parliament House with a mass protest.
"WE the people of the Aviation Industry, having lost all faith in the regulator, due lack of governance, integrity or morality, and without practical sense or sanity in the regulatory laws, hereby demand.......etc, etc , whatever.
Kharon..? Anyone..? ps. Its very urgent.!
People out there more computer savvy will know a quicker way to get responses back.
Donations to where?
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Be patient grasshopper, people are working on it.
I've found donations to be a lost cause if collecting for any action of any consequence against a regulator who is prepared to spend the last cent in the taxpayers purse to defend the indefensible.
If one were to use it to attack individuals cast out from under the CASA umberella, well that may be a different thing. It may teach some that once out, you are fair game. It may help moderate their actions whilst in uniform. "Following orders" was chucked out as a defence at Nuremburg in 1945-46.
I've found donations to be a lost cause if collecting for any action of any consequence against a regulator who is prepared to spend the last cent in the taxpayers purse to defend the indefensible.
If one were to use it to attack individuals cast out from under the CASA umberella, well that may be a different thing. It may teach some that once out, you are fair game. It may help moderate their actions whilst in uniform. "Following orders" was chucked out as a defence at Nuremburg in 1945-46.
John Q,
Senator David Fawcett of SA is a helicopter expert par excellence, drop him a short note, and a copy of Paul Phelan's article, then talk to him direct --- if you have not already done so.
He WILL understand all the technical issues, that CASA and the AAT did not!
Tootle pip!!
Senator David Fawcett of SA is a helicopter expert par excellence, drop him a short note, and a copy of Paul Phelan's article, then talk to him direct --- if you have not already done so.
He WILL understand all the technical issues, that CASA and the AAT did not!
Tootle pip!!
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thy for all your support
I am still coming to terms that the AAT did not stand up to the CASA.
I always thought Australia had a fair legal system.
I have always conducted myself in a safe and professional way as a pilot.
The extent that this incident has hurt my family is unreal.
All that i can say is i will fight the CASA all the way and i now realise it is not only me they have picked on.
The amount of support that i am receiving overwhelming.
Anyone else with similar stories please contact me so we can be united and stand up against the CASA.
I always thought Australia had a fair legal system.
I have always conducted myself in a safe and professional way as a pilot.
The extent that this incident has hurt my family is unreal.
All that i can say is i will fight the CASA all the way and i now realise it is not only me they have picked on.
The amount of support that i am receiving overwhelming.
Anyone else with similar stories please contact me so we can be united and stand up against the CASA.
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Bump - Support John
Data base ?????
Support for John can be offered on - No Confidence - Vote here. There seems to be a data base problem but, no doubt Pprune will sort it out.
Support for John can be offered on - No Confidence - Vote here. There seems to be a data base problem but, no doubt Pprune will sort it out.
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Guys,
Has anyone thought about putting a camera on an RC helicopter and doing steep turns and wing overs, then comparing the footage?
I'd be reluctant to do it in the real thing in case Casa came after me, but the laws of aerodynamics are still the same?
I'm sure there are plenty of fellas on here into RCs.
The results would be interesting as I suspect you will turn through 60 degrees in a wing over however it is not sustained.
As for the low flying, as per the CARs you are exempt from the 500ft minima when in the process of taking off and landing. Wasn't this helicopter attempting to land?
Cheers
Has anyone thought about putting a camera on an RC helicopter and doing steep turns and wing overs, then comparing the footage?
I'd be reluctant to do it in the real thing in case Casa came after me, but the laws of aerodynamics are still the same?
I'm sure there are plenty of fellas on here into RCs.
The results would be interesting as I suspect you will turn through 60 degrees in a wing over however it is not sustained.
As for the low flying, as per the CARs you are exempt from the 500ft minima when in the process of taking off and landing. Wasn't this helicopter attempting to land?
Cheers
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Better still, you could break every rule in the book, make sure you are on your own with a mounted camera postioned in a way that doesn't reveal your actual identity or the identity specifics of your vehicle, then film your mischief, perhaps even topping it off with a 'brow-eye' at the end of the footage (make sure you don't have a recognizable ass!!).
Then post it to Fort Fumble and put it on the Tube. A bit like Brendan 'the postcard bandit' Abbott', taunt the nupty's. Fk em.
It's not very mature, but neither is CASA.
Then post it to Fort Fumble and put it on the Tube. A bit like Brendan 'the postcard bandit' Abbott', taunt the nupty's. F
k em.It's not very mature, but neither is CASA.
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The Video
They do not need any other evidence they have the video.
They were not interested in going to the area, but they were interested in believing the evidence of a criminal which they knew spent 1 year in jail on 100 charges. Even after the DPP dropped the charges CASA still tried and make evidence up.
The only rules for .......... is there is no rules they make up the rules as they go.They dug themselves a hole and tried to make up ..............
They were not interested in going to the area, but they were interested in believing the evidence of a criminal which they knew spent 1 year in jail on 100 charges. Even after the DPP dropped the charges CASA still tried and make evidence up.
The only rules for .......... is there is no rules they make up the rules as they go.They dug themselves a hole and tried to make up ..............
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Been suggested
Wiser heads suggest that a 'secret' ballot may be preferred by Pruners 'a feared of incoming Flak".
The numbers seem to confirm this. Want to support John, but not here??.
Use the PM system either to me or John. Just need the numbers, not the names.
It could be your turn tomorrow.
Last edited by Kharon; 25th Nov 2011 at 18:39.
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Guys and girls,
dont be complacent, this could be you tomorrow, if you feel as bad as I do about John's situation go to the no confidence vote...what have you got to lose??..except your industry!!
dont be complacent, this could be you tomorrow, if you feel as bad as I do about John's situation go to the no confidence vote...what have you got to lose??..except your industry!!
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The Aviation Advertisers web site is down and Paul Phelans article there for not available. Conspiracy theorists have any clues? Any old cynic will do. 
BTW, can any one tell me if torque turns are part of the syllabus of training for helo drivers to get a licence? For you plank drivers it's the equivalent of a stalled turn - sort of.
BTW, can any one tell me if torque turns are part of the syllabus of training for helo drivers to get a licence? For you plank drivers it's the equivalent of a stalled turn - sort of.
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casa dogs
Hi John,contact Paul Phelan, he will give you the name of a good fighter against casa, & his string of lawyers, he had his licence pulled for flying a sea plane off a trailerdown runway,they did not do any investergations etc,, he has always beaton casa & now sueing for over 7 mil casa staff included ,some will lose their houses,,
He is just starting a class action also against, casa & staff & however are involved ,messing up other peoples lives
cheers
He is just starting a class action also against, casa & staff & however are involved ,messing up other peoples lives
cheers
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gkpilot,
Is there any public information about this case around at the moment?
It'd be excellent to see some real accountability hit the regulator, and for those responsible to be on the other side of the counter asking if I want a coke and fries with my Big Mac, where they belong.
Is there any public information about this case around at the moment?
It'd be excellent to see some real accountability hit the regulator, and for those responsible to be on the other side of the counter asking if I want a coke and fries with my Big Mac, where they belong.