Paul Phelan 's latest
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The AAT is a tribunal that reviews (and ratifies or reverses) Government administrative decisions.
The Ombudsman would have no power to interfere in, let alone reverse a decision by the AAT.
I suspect any review of an AAT decision could only be judicial, refer to the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act 1977?
The Ombudsman would have no power to interfere in, let alone reverse a decision by the AAT.
I suspect any review of an AAT decision could only be judicial, refer to the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act 1977?
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I agree, and also the AAT is probably in another State.
However the Federal Ombudsman may have the power to investigate what could be an abuse of process by Department of Transport and Regional Services.
However the Federal Ombudsman may have the power to investigate what could be an abuse of process by Department of Transport and Regional Services.
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Legal system
I have lost all faith in the legal system in Australia.
I have always conducted my flying in a safe and professional way.
I hope other pilots do not find themselves in my position.
I ask how you can judge a flight by a video and how come none of the CASA FOIs never went to the area where this incident happened.
The DPP did not go through with this incident because they had no evidence, the only reason that the CASA went to the DPP is because i appealed about having my license cancelled. I was stood down then the CASA tried to put a case together.
In my case GUILTY till proven INNOCENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have always conducted my flying in a safe and professional way.
I hope other pilots do not find themselves in my position.
I ask how you can judge a flight by a video and how come none of the CASA FOIs never went to the area where this incident happened.
The DPP did not go through with this incident because they had no evidence, the only reason that the CASA went to the DPP is because i appealed about having my license cancelled. I was stood down then the CASA tried to put a case together.
In my case GUILTY till proven INNOCENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The DPP did not go through with this incident because they had no evidence, the only reason that the CASA went to the DPP is because i appealed about having my license cancelled. I was stood down then the CASA tried to put a case together.
You can liken it to going up against the ATO, another ego driven bullyboy organisation. Look at Hoges, he took them on, he has basically won, yet the ATO will not admit to being in the wrong, they will not apolgise and they will not compensate. So Hoges has spent say 7 years fighting them, flying to and from AUS, spent tonnes of money, stressed and inconvenienced only to have what happen? So either way he loses.
John, you have every right to have lost complete faith in the justice system as there isn't one, well not one for the average man anyway.
Have to agee with John in regards to the legal system! The legal system in Oz is seriously broken, unless you can afford the biggest and best QC you are stuck in the system.
You start off with the Magistrates Court or Federal Magistrates Court and unless you plead guilty straight up you get stuck going through mentions, committal hearings etc for at least a year.
Then it starts all over again with mentions in the district court (or in John's case the AAT)...etc..etc until you get a court date. As a consequence the simplest cases (on paper) can drag on for years, so even if your innocent you become tempted to plead guilty just to have it over with.
Not to mention the huge financial burden you have been put under to prove your innocence! Like I said the "legal system is broken"!
That said I have to agree with Wallsofchina in regard to:
....although I think you would be better going straight at CASA, being a government authority (i.e. CASA fall within the realms of the Commonwealth Ombudsman). A good brief could highlight the double standards of the regulator and the inconsistencies of their argument, which has been pointed out in the various posts in this thread.
You start off with the Magistrates Court or Federal Magistrates Court and unless you plead guilty straight up you get stuck going through mentions, committal hearings etc for at least a year.
Then it starts all over again with mentions in the district court (or in John's case the AAT)...etc..etc until you get a court date. As a consequence the simplest cases (on paper) can drag on for years, so even if your innocent you become tempted to plead guilty just to have it over with.
Not to mention the huge financial burden you have been put under to prove your innocence! Like I said the "legal system is broken"!
That said I have to agree with Wallsofchina in regard to:
However the Federal Ombudsman may have the power to investigate what could be an abuse of process by Department of Transport and Regional Services.
Blame game...
Wallsofchina..No point in pointing the finger at the Dept of Transport and etc.
The abuse of process hasnt been done by them. They'll flick pass you right back to CASA, the perpetrator.
You might think that DoTR and Allbeentooeasee, the "minister", would be interested in having some direction and oversight of the roque authority... but you would be very wrong.
DoTR as far a this sort of issue goes is definitely a black hole, severely infected with administratium. Been there, done that and went nowhere.
CASA is a seperate planet and a law unto itself.
While the ombuds investigations can examine the whole disgusting episode, and agree with you that it is a disgusting episode, they can't order CASA to do anything: they can only recommend and CASA doesn't have to do sfa.
So that too, is a waste of time. Been there, done that as well.
Looks like only a court can order CASA to give the man his licence back, but thats a long and expensive ? route to follow.
And of course CASA, like a mangy rottweiller with a bone, will not give it up, and they have an unlimited taxpayer wallet to plunder for the fight.
Any legal minds out there that can advise on an efficient way to tackle this sort of problem.?
The abuse of process hasnt been done by them. They'll flick pass you right back to CASA, the perpetrator.
You might think that DoTR and Allbeentooeasee, the "minister", would be interested in having some direction and oversight of the roque authority... but you would be very wrong.
DoTR as far a this sort of issue goes is definitely a black hole, severely infected with administratium. Been there, done that and went nowhere.
CASA is a seperate planet and a law unto itself.
While the ombuds investigations can examine the whole disgusting episode, and agree with you that it is a disgusting episode, they can't order CASA to do anything: they can only recommend and CASA doesn't have to do sfa.
So that too, is a waste of time. Been there, done that as well.
Looks like only a court can order CASA to give the man his licence back, but thats a long and expensive ? route to follow.
And of course CASA, like a mangy rottweiller with a bone, will not give it up, and they have an unlimited taxpayer wallet to plunder for the fight.
Any legal minds out there that can advise on an efficient way to tackle this sort of problem.?
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To take a mans license and livelihood from him based on the word and video clip of a convicted criminal beggars belief. It must also be extremely hurtful and embarrassing for the decent moral employees of CASA when a small but very corrupt group can make the whole organization the subject of contempt and ridicule. eg I've heard that based on their firm belief that the camera doesn't lie they now have their sights set on a certain Doctor after viewing yet another film clip. Charges so far are Flying without a License, Carrying unrestrained Passengers, Unauthorized Landings, Dangerous Flying, and Unauthorized Deep Space Travel in a blue police box not registered as an aircraft. Careful study of the clip continues to determine whether any further offenses have been committed. There's plenty of footage - should keep them occupied for a while!
Check Attitude
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bit of thread drift here, the thrust of the original thread was essentially malicious and vindictive misconduct of the North Queensland Area Office.
Nothing new here, step back in time a few years, remember UZU Air, Cape York Airlines, Aero Tropics, Pacific Seaplanes, Midstate Airlines, etc.
Remember the reign of terror imposed by a little man with a moustache?
That particular misfit even bastardised three of his own FOI's,
one of whom was pushed over the top of his mental health limits and now remains a Comcare benefits recipient.
To appease the masses, Malleson Stephens Jaques QC / SC Skehill was commissioned, at a taxpayer cost of $84,000, to establish that there was no problem.
Regrettably, for CASA, a few months later it was found that the little man with the moustache had overstepped the mark.
He and some of his band of co conspirators were invited to seek opportunities outside of CASA, and left with Golden handshakes.
The Nuremburg defence was used by some of the guilty, "I was just following orders".
So the current crew of misfits did learn something from the past, simply,
misconduct is condoned at the highest levels and will never be punished.
If they do get caught out, no problems, golden parachutes are available.
Hence the situation perpetuates, as Quandrio found out.
Interesting that one of the cards from the Manual of Standards for Dirty Tricks was played,
i.e. CASA, to flex their muscles, invoke the "you must terminate bloggs and we will go easy on you".
This card has frequently been played in many regions.
And to cap it off, one of the ethics committee is none other than a person named and involved in the Polar Aviation bastardry.
Nothing will ever change until accountability and appropriate disciplinary or punitive action is introduced into CASA's Charter.
CASA, the Model Litigant proponent!
Nothing new here, step back in time a few years, remember UZU Air, Cape York Airlines, Aero Tropics, Pacific Seaplanes, Midstate Airlines, etc.
Remember the reign of terror imposed by a little man with a moustache?
That particular misfit even bastardised three of his own FOI's,
one of whom was pushed over the top of his mental health limits and now remains a Comcare benefits recipient.
To appease the masses, Malleson Stephens Jaques QC / SC Skehill was commissioned, at a taxpayer cost of $84,000, to establish that there was no problem.
Regrettably, for CASA, a few months later it was found that the little man with the moustache had overstepped the mark.
He and some of his band of co conspirators were invited to seek opportunities outside of CASA, and left with Golden handshakes.
The Nuremburg defence was used by some of the guilty, "I was just following orders".
So the current crew of misfits did learn something from the past, simply,
misconduct is condoned at the highest levels and will never be punished.
If they do get caught out, no problems, golden parachutes are available.
Hence the situation perpetuates, as Quandrio found out.
Interesting that one of the cards from the Manual of Standards for Dirty Tricks was played,
i.e. CASA, to flex their muscles, invoke the "you must terminate bloggs and we will go easy on you".
This card has frequently been played in many regions.
And to cap it off, one of the ethics committee is none other than a person named and involved in the Polar Aviation bastardry.
Nothing will ever change until accountability and appropriate disciplinary or punitive action is introduced into CASA's Charter.
CASA, the Model Litigant proponent!
Daleks required....
Rutan ... dont suppose you know where there are any second hand Daleks
available?. Even u/s ones would do. Could put em thru the workshop for a fix up before turning them loose to do the required job.
In the current environment, what they called out as they trundled about, is surely,sorely required.
Remember the quote from Napolean Bonaparte.?
"Never ascribe to malice, that which is adequately explained by incompetence"
I think he was very wrong. With certain CASA persons you can apply both.
Incompetence bred of laziness and ignorance. Malice as a natural trait of power crazy SOBs, who will stop at nothing, at great cost to the taxpayer and the victims, to demonstrate that (abuse of) power.
available?. Even u/s ones would do. Could put em thru the workshop for a fix up before turning them loose to do the required job.
In the current environment, what they called out as they trundled about, is surely,sorely required.
Remember the quote from Napolean Bonaparte.?
"Never ascribe to malice, that which is adequately explained by incompetence"
I think he was very wrong. With certain CASA persons you can apply both.
Incompetence bred of laziness and ignorance. Malice as a natural trait of power crazy SOBs, who will stop at nothing, at great cost to the taxpayer and the victims, to demonstrate that (abuse of) power.
Check Attitude
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Blackhand
yes, one of the operators was a bit dodgy, I deliberately included one, fishing for comments.
I will not divulge which one, but have first hand knowledge aquired by direct observation.
Do you have first hand knowledge as well, or anectdotal / third party bar talk.
CASA have a penchant for pursuing allegations of an anectdotal nature or from disgruntled ex employees of an operator.
Agreed that where there is smoke there is probably fire,
but careful investigation should establish whether hard evidence is available to prosecute.
I have no time for dodgy operators and hope that they will be encouraged to become compliant.
If not, prosecute them, not play with them via the AAT.
Do you disagree that misconduct by certain FOI's and Team Leaders occurs from time to time?
I have met and co existed with both professional and ethical FOI's, and regrettably with some of the rogue element.
The never to be published Venn report substantiates the existance of CASA misconduct in Nth Qld.
With the re emerging of misconduct in Nth Qld it is a management problem that is not being adequately addressed by the area manager.
Bruce Byron, to his credit, and after being made aware of unpalable facts, cleaned up that office.
Maybe its time to shine a light back into that hole?
yes, one of the operators was a bit dodgy, I deliberately included one, fishing for comments.
I will not divulge which one, but have first hand knowledge aquired by direct observation.
Do you have first hand knowledge as well, or anectdotal / third party bar talk.
CASA have a penchant for pursuing allegations of an anectdotal nature or from disgruntled ex employees of an operator.
Agreed that where there is smoke there is probably fire,
but careful investigation should establish whether hard evidence is available to prosecute.
I have no time for dodgy operators and hope that they will be encouraged to become compliant.
If not, prosecute them, not play with them via the AAT.
Do you disagree that misconduct by certain FOI's and Team Leaders occurs from time to time?
I have met and co existed with both professional and ethical FOI's, and regrettably with some of the rogue element.
The never to be published Venn report substantiates the existance of CASA misconduct in Nth Qld.
With the re emerging of misconduct in Nth Qld it is a management problem that is not being adequately addressed by the area manager.
Bruce Byron, to his credit, and after being made aware of unpalable facts, cleaned up that office.
Maybe its time to shine a light back into that hole?
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AROA
I'd try 'Fort Fumble'. The indications are that there's a heap of Daleks there all in first class condition. Ask for the Aviation Extermination Department. I hear it's currently winding down as it has almost finished the job. Avoid the ugly bald-headed half robot guy with all the tubes hanging off him.
I'd try 'Fort Fumble'. The indications are that there's a heap of Daleks there all in first class condition. Ask for the Aviation Extermination Department. I hear it's currently winding down as it has almost finished the job. Avoid the ugly bald-headed half robot guy with all the tubes hanging off him.
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@mainframe
Was on the island 1998/1999.
Recently spoke with a pilot flying RPT in Torress Strait, and he assures me the same style of operations are being carried out by "charter" operators on Horn Island.
At the time you refer to, the trawler boat man's company and the arabs company deserved to be shut down.
The FOIs in Cairns at that time were ordered to prevent the psuedo RPT operations from continuing. The investigation was driven by the local council, to get better services for the TS Islanders.
I found the Airworthiness blokes to be fair, the FOIs were indeed hard heads, but they needed to be.
Does the name Feral Cheryl ring any bells?
Do you have first hand knowledge as well, or anectdotal / third party bar talk.
Recently spoke with a pilot flying RPT in Torress Strait, and he assures me the same style of operations are being carried out by "charter" operators on Horn Island.
At the time you refer to, the trawler boat man's company and the arabs company deserved to be shut down.
The FOIs in Cairns at that time were ordered to prevent the psuedo RPT operations from continuing. The investigation was driven by the local council, to get better services for the TS Islanders.
I found the Airworthiness blokes to be fair, the FOIs were indeed hard heads, but they needed to be.
Does the name Feral Cheryl ring any bells?
Last edited by blackhand; 18th Nov 2011 at 01:22.
Back to the heli pilots AAT.....
spoke today with heli-pilot of the most experience. You've all read the AAT transcript ??? so you'll know who I'm talking about. And you'll know how the AAT gave no credence to what he had to say...because of the north/south? hiccup on a reef diagram. He made that mistake initially.... but NOBODY else knew the difference until HE came back later and corrected it.!
CASA persons didnt know, so if you follow the AAT logic there's no credibility with them either!
But we know that.
Bias.... what bias.?
CASA persons didnt know, so if you follow the AAT logic there's no credibility with them either!
But we know that.
Bias.... what bias.?
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NO CREDIBLITY
You are 100% correct AORA but he is not a credible witness, so say the AAT.
But a 550 hour FOI who can not read the difference between 21 inches manifold pressure and 26 inches is. Not to mention how can he be an expert witness.And that is just the beginning of the garbage that CASA went on with.
The AAT have a lot to answer for!!!!!!
But a 550 hour FOI who can not read the difference between 21 inches manifold pressure and 26 inches is. Not to mention how can he be an expert witness.And that is just the beginning of the garbage that CASA went on with.
The AAT have a lot to answer for!!!!!!
Torres is the man who know's how to beat the regulator at their own game, especially when it comes to dealing with the AAT! Drop him a line, I'm sure he'll give you some insight into the workings of the AAT (maybe mail him a case of xxxx gold for his services)!
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Thy for all your feedback.
I appreciate all the support i am getting, i have received emails with offers of support and guidance. I am following the leads up,i am also getting support from some politicians.
John has CASA indicated when you may expect to get your license back? Or have they indicated what you need to do i.e. retraining or resitting your commercial test?
I still can't believe that the CASA FOI wouldn't have approached your former employer with the video and then suggested a course of remedial training for yourself, coupled with a review flight monitored by the CASA FOI.
Were they perhaps gunning for your employer, or is it a case of setting an example to all the other reef scenic operators?
Reading through the whole AAT transcript I still can't believe that they upheld the decision after all the dodgy witnesses etc..etc, just mind boggling!
I still can't believe that the CASA FOI wouldn't have approached your former employer with the video and then suggested a course of remedial training for yourself, coupled with a review flight monitored by the CASA FOI.
Were they perhaps gunning for your employer, or is it a case of setting an example to all the other reef scenic operators?
Reading through the whole AAT transcript I still can't believe that they upheld the decision after all the dodgy witnesses etc..etc, just mind boggling!