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Old 21st Nov 2011, 01:05
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
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mind set..

the person JQ .."rubbed up the wrong way" was an ex AFP "person", right?
There's the answer.

The new to CASA guy that did my "investigation" was an ex NSW cop.
At least his move was a benefit for NSW citizens, but not to us, sadly.

Employing this personality type are all part of CASA's punitive approach to aviation "safety",... getcha and flogya.!

And the mind set of plods is that nobody can be doing anything.! without them thinking there is a criminal element in it. For them, brownie points for a 'knock -off' are the order of the day.

My !##@#!! was full of bluff and bullsh*t, and he's also got ideas WAY above
his station.
eg three of his reasons why a prosecution should proceed were..
1..Would not do an interview. Hullo? do I have a right to remain silent ?
2.. Showed no remorse.! Is this wacker a judge or something? HTF can you be remorseful about something that is a false accusation! And I never saw/met the bugger, so how would he know ? anything?
Nothing...JUST make it up.
3, Denied he did anything wrong. CASA: presumption of innocence does not apply here.
They know you are 'guilty' even before an "investigation" so denying it only makes it worse.
Oh dear!!! JUSTAR$E.. the CASA way
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 07:00
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Enquiry

Any one who has been treated the same way as me with the CASA email me.
I want an enquiry into how the CASA can conduct themselves in this manner.
I am getting a lot of support within the industry from fellow aviators and engineers alike.
We need to be united and stand together,it is only a matter of time before they pick on you if not already.
i believe they have a much bigger agenda than just small pilots.
Even if i never fly again i will not quit until theCASA are accountable for the way they waste tax payers money.
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 07:15
  #143 (permalink)  
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I agree - completely.

Where johnís story is sad and I have a great deal of sympathy for him, the real tragedy here is that Johnís cautionary tale is only the tip of the iceberg.

Paulís article serves to illuminate one easily understood AAT hearing. There have been many such travesties conducted over the last couple of years, much in the same style with the same result; a life, career and bank account decimated.

Solutions to Johnís problem are thin on the ground and apart from lengthy, expensive court battles, which will end up back at the AAT there is nowhere else to go and no one to appeal to. Politicians mean well, but they are of little practical value, itís too complex for the press to convey to the public and the industry seems incapable of getting behind even a simple issue like this and Ďsittingí CASA on itís well fed, tailored rump.

Almost everyone in GA has a CASA horror story, perhaps itís time the industry fought back.

The skills, talent and horsepower required are available; I will start the ball rolling by volunteering my own.
I know, I know. Help I'm melting.
Kharon is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2011, 09:09
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 49
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Regulation and Legal bullying

Regulation bullying is where a serial bully forces their target to comply with rules, regulations, procedures or laws regardless of their appropriateness, applicability or necessity. Legal bullying - the bringing of a vexatious legal action to control and punish a person - is one of the nastiest forms of bullying.

Quote from What is bullying? Types of bullying, bullies tactics, how bullies select their victims, the difference between bullying and harassment
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 10:23
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Kharon, about bloody time you came back !!
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 10:28
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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hmhb after reading that article I've changed my mind, I think CASA are just reflecting the actions of the industry they are supposed to regulate!

Not sure about anyone else but a lot of that article reflected several past and present employers that I've worked for!
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 12:11
  #147 (permalink)  
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How say you.

JQ may well be as guilty as sin, he may well be as pure as the Lamb. Who knows, or, better still, who cares.

This is not the question, not by a bloody long shot.

I would be the first to support a properly orchestrated CASA investigation and with proof positive (beyond reasonable doubt) as an acknowledged expert in the industry, fully support a safety related action. Indeed, there almost should be no need for the clever workings of skilled lawyers to argue the 'technical' malpractice. Perhaps the sentencing, perhaps the severity of the punishment and certainly the mans rights. This guy, right or wrong got stitched by the system, not the crime.

As has been said; a weak, vacillating industry gets exactly what it deserves.

You have got the regulator and the regulation suite you deserve, the question remains; what ?, in all the hells, are you going to do to fix this bloody awful mess. Eh?.

What ?. Whine on Prune, arrgh spare me.


Selah.


PS. Tks GDock, may the force be with you.
Glad you held the fort.

For the fans (and critics). Henry VI, scene ii, Blacheath.

CADE
. I thank you, good people: there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers and worship me their lord.

DICK. The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.t

Last edited by Kharon; 21st Nov 2011 at 12:43. Reason: Lynux v Bounce
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Old 22nd Nov 2011, 06:20
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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NEM Project 11 looks good mate.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2011, 11:41
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Thankyou all for your support

I have had so many phone calls emails from fellow aviators engineers and many people that i have flown over the years including government jobs.
I am so amazed by the support i am getting,it makes me realise there is nice people out there.I am amazed by the stories that i am being told by people who have been in the same situation as me.
I am gathering information to give to higher authorities so we can have a good look at the controlling bodies.
Any one who feels they have a story can email me.
Cheers John Quadrio
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Old 22nd Nov 2011, 12:31
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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John there are certainly many many cases out there that mimic what you have been put through. I wish I could say you are the first and the last, but sadly that is not possible.
Hopefully Messr Phelan has been in personal contact with you, and by now you would be aware of who in the political world will actually take interest in your plight, there would be less than a handful of genuine politicians in Australia that have the testicular fortitude to be interested in your case, but it is something. There are also what I would call 'justice seeking champions' out there like Shane Urqhart and family members of some of those killed in the seaview accident who silently and sometimes not so silently let it be known that the fish has been rotting from the head for decades.

And that is the ironic twist isn't it? Lives have been lost, both physically, and materially (as in Johns case) and it would seem not a nights sleep is lost by those accountable and entrusted with upholding safety within Australian aviation. Human lives and people's dignity and reputation should not be allowed to be destroyed for no better reason than a mob of limp dick gutless vermin not having the strength and character to admit to being wrong or making a mistake.

The power does lay with the people, there would have to be at least 30 000 people alone directly employed within Australian aviation, and only 650 Fort Fumble incompetents, it is time for the people to gather enmass and force a change.
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Old 22nd Nov 2011, 20:05
  #151 (permalink)  
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The Buck stops here.

Been thinking and talking with 'grown ups' about the JQ case. I have tried to define why it deeply offends so many people, in so many ways.

For my money it's the 'manner' in which it was managed and prosecuted. This case should have been sorted out over a 'tea and biccies' chat between CP the FOI. If, (big if there) the FOI and CP believed there was a case to be answered perhaps it may have gone to the local manager; but it should have been sorted out long before an expensive 3 ring circus rolled into Dodge.

Since the current director has been in charge, managers are reaching for the RCA/ Show cause book when a mouse farts in hanger 13; are they on a quota or what?.

It's time the industry signed up on a single, short document. An industry wide call for the resignations of the people responsible for the management of the CASA. Not the clowns in the front office, they have to earn a living somewhere and good sheltered workshops, are hard to come by.

How about it ?. A simple petition signed by all would do the trick. Money where your hearts, minds and mouths are, or do 'they' have you by the balls.

Selah.

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Old 22nd Nov 2011, 21:06
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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I agree. One of your posts I can follow, less cryptic

As you have a way with words, draft away. If it is good enough there will be huge response.

Safety is a state of mind, not a book of regulations.

I think the modern world has lost sight of that.
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 00:44
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: East of YRTI
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DRAFT AWAY

I'm with you Jaba - Kharon old son, draft (not draught)away. The KISS principle will do fine, keeping in mind the last para from your second last post.
It seems that most have "talked the talk", now time to write the write.
I'll put me two bobs worth in, or out, as the case may need.
I'm told there are some bargain priced sheltered workshops coming up shortly,
uniforms supplied (including boots with loud,clicking heels), pens and paper, paper clips etc available.
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 03:23
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
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petitions....

since they have to be formally preambled.? and correctly laid out or they go in the bin... how about those of legal mind set too, and make up the appropriate page/s that can be emailed to everybody in the GA industry, pilots, owners, engineers for signature.

Since we are all spread across the GAFA, the page/pages can be downloaded and signed by individuals or groups of, sent to a central location for collection, registering, collation, whatever and a full set sent off to....
the Governer-General
the Prime Minister
the Minister for Transport
the Senate... to be tabled
the House of Reps... to be tabled
and a precis detailing the demands of the Industry to every damned politician in the country, State and Federal.
At least then none can say "we didnt know what was going on"

And maybe delivered to Parliament House with a mass protest.

"WE the people of the Aviation Industry, having lost all faith in the regulator, due lack of governance, integrity or morality, and without practical sense or sanity in the regulatory laws, hereby demand.......etc, etc , whatever.

Kharon..? Anyone..? ps. Its very urgent.!

People out there more computer savvy will know a quicker way to get responses back.

Donations to where?
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 05:16
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Be patient grasshopper, people are working on it.

I've found donations to be a lost cause if collecting for any action of any consequence against a regulator who is prepared to spend the last cent in the taxpayers purse to defend the indefensible.

If one were to use it to attack individuals cast out from under the CASA umberella, well that may be a different thing. It may teach some that once out, you are fair game. It may help moderate their actions whilst in uniform. "Following orders" was chucked out as a defence at Nuremburg in 1945-46.
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 14:37
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
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John Q,
Senator David Fawcett of SA is a helicopter expert par excellence, drop him a short note, and a copy of Paul Phelan's article, then talk to him direct --- if you have not already done so.
He WILL understand all the technical issues, that CASA and the AAT did not!
Tootle pip!!
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 05:04
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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thy for all your support

I am still coming to terms that the AAT did not stand up to the CASA.
I always thought Australia had a fair legal system.
I have always conducted myself in a safe and professional way as a pilot.
The extent that this incident has hurt my family is unreal.
All that i can say is i will fight the CASA all the way and i now realise it is not only me they have picked on.
The amount of support that i am receiving overwhelming.
Anyone else with similar stories please contact me so we can be united and stand up against the CASA.
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 21:07
  #158 (permalink)  
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Bump - Support John

Data base ?????

Support for John can be offered on - No Confidence - Vote here. There seems to be a data base problem but, no doubt PPRuNe will sort it out.
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Old 25th Nov 2011, 03:41
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Look up and wave
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Guys,

Has anyone thought about putting a camera on an RC helicopter and doing steep turns and wing overs, then comparing the footage?

I'd be reluctant to do it in the real thing in case Casa came after me, but the laws of aerodynamics are still the same?

I'm sure there are plenty of fellas on here into RCs.

The results would be interesting as I suspect you will turn through 60 degrees in a wing over however it is not sustained.

As for the low flying, as per the CARs you are exempt from the 500ft minima when in the process of taking off and landing. Wasn't this helicopter attempting to land?

Cheers
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Old 25th Nov 2011, 03:56
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Better still, you could break every rule in the book, make sure you are on your own with a mounted camera postioned in a way that doesn't reveal your actual identity or the identity specifics of your vehicle, then film your mischief, perhaps even topping it off with a 'brow-eye' at the end of the footage (make sure you don't have a recognizable ass!!).
Then post it to Fort Fumble and put it on the Tube. A bit like Brendan 'the postcard bandit' Abbott', taunt the nupty's. Fk em.

It's not very mature, but neither is CASA.
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