GAM Aerocommander pilots!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: melb
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This job (GAM flying) has produced some of the finest pilots I have ever seen, real raw experience flying & make excellent commanders in the future,something that will fade in the future.
As for whether it's the best job conditions wise? Nope it would have to be one of the worst but the trick is to stay only long enuf to gain that experience & move on, something that is quicker these days than ever before.
Wmk2
As for whether it's the best job conditions wise? Nope it would have to be one of the worst but the trick is to stay only long enuf to gain that experience & move on, something that is quicker these days than ever before.
Wmk2
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
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I really have to agree with Wally above. The Aero Commander is in my opinion a great machine. Great experience doing bank runs, really makes you an aviator- well gives you a bloody good foundation. Employers look at it with respect at interviews. All in all a win win position. Forget about T&C's when you start out get the experience and some honest dirt under you finger nails. It certainly stands you in good stead later on.
Even in the Airlines there are times for various reasons you will be knackered, heck, half my sims have been done back of the clock, so get used to and manage fatigue.
CHE
Good positive post hold short, no one seems to be able to spell or use correct grammar these days anyway.
Even in the Airlines there are times for various reasons you will be knackered, heck, half my sims have been done back of the clock, so get used to and manage fatigue.
CHE
Good positive post hold short, no one seems to be able to spell or use correct grammar these days anyway.
My goodnes , 4 long days straight with 6.5 VDO ..... don't know how you survive that . Good thing we would never allow that in Ag' !!!!
Starting at 4 in the morning and knocking off at half 7, with the commute either end is tiring when done back to back, week after week.
Now go crawl back into the irrelevant little hole from whence you came and take your vapid opinions with you.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
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Starting at 4 in the morning and knocking off at half 7, with the commute either end is tiring when done back to back, week after week.
Get it through your thick head that nobody is saying its clear in the lead as the hardest job in existence. Simply, that its fatiguing as anyone whos actually done it well tell you.
Cec,
Were you always this much of a douche or did you have to work at it? And your ag mates that work the hours they do, is that 12months of the year? Hmmmmm.
j3
Were you always this much of a douche or did you have to work at it? And your ag mates that work the hours they do, is that 12months of the year? Hmmmmm.
j3
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
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My, my, you boys are a little on the sensitive side aren't yoo? As I've said I'm on your side. I can't really imagine how hard it would be stretched out on a motel bed from 10 in the morning till what about 3:30? All I said was it makes one snigger, and it does that.
Thank your lucky stars your actually doing some consistant flying, some people actually enjoy flying that much or more in a day, day after day. If that's too hard a task how are you going to cope when you get on a bit higher up the scale? Long haul stuff? Mebe even freight? Long hours there boys.
Maybe if it's all a bit hard for you soldat you could try another industry?
If I could I'd like to comment about the tone of your posts Mr Soldat and J3, a bit abusive there aren't we boys? Next step is to find some spelling and grammer (That's one) mistakes to take the abuse up to the next level. Get more pedantic and a heat the abuse up a bit and you might just reach prune standards.
Thank your lucky stars your actually doing some consistant flying, some people actually enjoy flying that much or more in a day, day after day. If that's too hard a task how are you going to cope when you get on a bit higher up the scale? Long haul stuff? Mebe even freight? Long hours there boys.
Maybe if it's all a bit hard for you soldat you could try another industry?If I could I'd like to comment about the tone of your posts Mr Soldat and J3, a bit abusive there aren't we boys? Next step is to find some spelling and grammer (That's one) mistakes to take the abuse up to the next level. Get more pedantic and a heat the abuse up a bit and you might just reach prune standards.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: dnunda
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Fatigue management - hinted at, but not specifically mentioned, is the obligation on the pilots flying to comply with the intent of the program,- that is, to utilise the available facilities to rest during the middle part of the day.
Human Factors tells us that this a long term practical reality, both from the dicipline required to undertake the rest period, and the impossibility of resetting the circadian rhythms to achieve quality rest.
There will always be those who adapt to the requirements, and also those who lack the ability to adapt (for whatever reason), and have their "eyes hanging out" as a consequence.
Personally, I have a lot of respect for the operation, and for the aircraft. As for wing separations, most of those were due to earlier incarnations of the engineering resulting in +ve G loadings overcoming a weakened centre structure, and a low percentage attributed purely to flight velocity induced loadings resulting in -ve G symetrical failures at the inboard ends of the ailerons.
Tite
Human Factors tells us that this a long term practical reality, both from the dicipline required to undertake the rest period, and the impossibility of resetting the circadian rhythms to achieve quality rest.
There will always be those who adapt to the requirements, and also those who lack the ability to adapt (for whatever reason), and have their "eyes hanging out" as a consequence.
Personally, I have a lot of respect for the operation, and for the aircraft. As for wing separations, most of those were due to earlier incarnations of the engineering resulting in +ve G loadings overcoming a weakened centre structure, and a low percentage attributed purely to flight velocity induced loadings resulting in -ve G symetrical failures at the inboard ends of the ailerons.
Tite
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
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Yes, circadian rythms can be adjusted over time, however, consider the typical freight pilot's sleep pattern. A GAM pilot would be awake at around 3am, heads in to work for a few hours flying and could possibly be ready for sleep again at 9am. A couple of hours sleep, then back to work, home in bed at about 10pm. This would change depending on the route flown.
Circadian rythms don't adjust very well to two varying sleep periods per day. This is different to someone who consistently works during the night and sleeps during the day. The body can adjust to that.
Circadian rythms don't adjust very well to two varying sleep periods per day. This is different to someone who consistently works during the night and sleeps during the day. The body can adjust to that.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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The Facts!
I'm a fence sitter on this as I have witnessed the good and the bad, but I believe a few facts need to be corrected.
VH-FTS - The FRMS is ok and it works. It is a positive to see a company obey it rather then fudge times!
Hold Short - 1-2 days of stby during Monday to Friday???? Some bases don't get any standbys but they aim for 1 per week - I assume you are talking about the 'teachers pet', Brisbane.
j3pipercub - As Romeo Charlie' said (and he would know!) they can work 6 days a week plus Brisbane has the only 4:00 sign on. Other bases 4:45, 5:00, 6:30 for bankrun pilots.
JackRanga - Nicely said, plus no 'pending clearance' and 'IFR taxi'!
VH-FTS - Storm season without weather radars? Didn't realise that most GA piston drivers had one. No fear over the aircraft structure if managed - i'll reword your question to how many spars have GAM had fail? All waiting for a call up to turbines - no not all but generally yes and some do love the job and company hence after many years are still there.
AyeEss - Love your work!
FGD135 - What about when about to change level? Centre often give traffic on climb for descent due to short legs. Having left their cruising level, do they report this to centre? Probably identified hence not required however i'm sure some forget.
das Uber Soldat - four or even sometimes five days straight of 4:45am - 7:30pm, 6.5 VDO. Only the Gladstone run does 6.5 a week and the sign on is 06:00 Tue-Thur but they share that around - plus they get extra money for it! I believe the max hours done recently in the company is about 32 per week, 123 per month, 1079 per year! Definately a good job for building hours i would say!
eocvictim - 1 hour commute isn't GAMair's fault!
Wally Mk2 - You always seem to tell it like it is! Nice work!
Che cow with guns - Well said.
VH-FTS - A GAM pilot would be awake at around 3am. Only 6 shifts a week out of 65 in the whole company! Plus it is rare to do it back to back.
Nothing in the above comments include the Dornier flying in Brisbane where they work gentlemans hours compared to the bankrunners.
If you don't like hard work and a disrupted lifestyle, the job isn't for you. Unfortunately too many people are looking at the lack of work airline pilots do and are trying to compare GAMair to them!
In summary the GAMair FRMS isn't fun but it works if you are capable of managing yourself. It is also good to see a company follow the pilots award and any allowances in it! Good hours for the next job - but not all are chasing airlines!
Yeah OK everyone have a go at me now for stating the facts.......
VH-FTS - The FRMS is ok and it works. It is a positive to see a company obey it rather then fudge times!
Hold Short - 1-2 days of stby during Monday to Friday???? Some bases don't get any standbys but they aim for 1 per week - I assume you are talking about the 'teachers pet', Brisbane.
j3pipercub - As Romeo Charlie' said (and he would know!) they can work 6 days a week plus Brisbane has the only 4:00 sign on. Other bases 4:45, 5:00, 6:30 for bankrun pilots.
JackRanga - Nicely said, plus no 'pending clearance' and 'IFR taxi'!
VH-FTS - Storm season without weather radars? Didn't realise that most GA piston drivers had one. No fear over the aircraft structure if managed - i'll reword your question to how many spars have GAM had fail? All waiting for a call up to turbines - no not all but generally yes and some do love the job and company hence after many years are still there.
AyeEss - Love your work!
FGD135 - What about when about to change level? Centre often give traffic on climb for descent due to short legs. Having left their cruising level, do they report this to centre? Probably identified hence not required however i'm sure some forget.
das Uber Soldat - four or even sometimes five days straight of 4:45am - 7:30pm, 6.5 VDO. Only the Gladstone run does 6.5 a week and the sign on is 06:00 Tue-Thur but they share that around - plus they get extra money for it! I believe the max hours done recently in the company is about 32 per week, 123 per month, 1079 per year! Definately a good job for building hours i would say!
eocvictim - 1 hour commute isn't GAMair's fault!
Wally Mk2 - You always seem to tell it like it is! Nice work!
Che cow with guns - Well said.
VH-FTS - A GAM pilot would be awake at around 3am. Only 6 shifts a week out of 65 in the whole company! Plus it is rare to do it back to back.
Nothing in the above comments include the Dornier flying in Brisbane where they work gentlemans hours compared to the bankrunners.
If you don't like hard work and a disrupted lifestyle, the job isn't for you. Unfortunately too many people are looking at the lack of work airline pilots do and are trying to compare GAMair to them!
In summary the GAMair FRMS isn't fun but it works if you are capable of managing yourself. It is also good to see a company follow the pilots award and any allowances in it! Good hours for the next job - but not all are chasing airlines!
Yeah OK everyone have a go at me now for stating the facts.......
GAM work is a great flying experience!
It is also fatiguing and much underpaid when you consider the amount of time away from home and paying for your lunches and dinners in country towns.
it used to be only 3 dayts a week! the good times!
It is also fatiguing and much underpaid when you consider the amount of time away from home and paying for your lunches and dinners in country towns.
it used to be only 3 dayts a week! the good times!
Join Date: Apr 2005
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paying for your lunches and dinners in country towns.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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VH-FTS - Storm season without weather radars? Didn't realise that most GA piston drivers had one. No fear over the aircraft structure if managed - i'll reword your question to how many spars have GAM had fail? All waiting for a call up to turbines - no not all but generally yes and some do love the job and company hence after many years are still there.
The point is a wx radar is very handy when you don't have 100% confidence in the history of your aircraft type. Plus I'd imagine in general your lot do more night flying than a lot of other GA operators, making it even more challenging to detect bad weather at times with your mark 1 eyeball.
VH-FTS - A GAM pilot would be awake at around 3am. Only 6 shifts a week out of 65 in the whole company! Plus it is rare to do it back to back.
In summary the GAMair FRMS isn't fun
The FRMS is ok and it works.
Read back and you'll see I was defending you against the guys who think you have it easy. But since you tell me your job is so easy then maybe the soap opera watching lifestyle justifies your crummy pay.
The best GAM bank run I ever did was the THG-RK-GLA and return. Out of pub at 6.55am, then 1.5 min drive to airport to meet metro and be airborne with thorough walk around at 7.15am. In and out of RK and then into GLA by 8.30am for a day of whatever you wanted which for me was taking the hotel owners tinnie out for a fish. That was after finishing off the buffet breakfast leftovers. Then return in the arvo to be at TNG pub by 7pm to have first beer by 7.01pm. What a life!! And only 5 days a week, all weekends and public holidays off and a great boss to work for. There was no FRM at that stage but the hardest run I would say for early starts and long days was the CV, which I remember we only ever did two of a week max with day off in between, but man I loved the roast chicken lunch at Poppa's cafe.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
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Gladstone's a run from bn now? Pretty sure brk was the longest run followed by cv then cdu (all over 6 hours), of course ignoring the 9 hour ad-as-ad run now done by the 690. Sounds like toll have really tighten the bank runs belt (and leash).
Plough King,
if you average the time you spend at work with GAM freight, your pay was about $12/hour since you were getting paid for a standard hour working week.
It may have changed since then.
nuff said, no-body held a gun to my head, I chose to leave.
Still, it was a positive experience but it was truely a great time up North.
BTW, Twin Commander has stated the facts.
if you average the time you spend at work with GAM freight, your pay was about $12/hour since you were getting paid for a standard hour working week.
It may have changed since then.
nuff said, no-body held a gun to my head, I chose to leave.
Still, it was a positive experience but it was truely a great time up North.
BTW, Twin Commander has stated the facts.
Last edited by NOSIGN; 1st Nov 2011 at 08:17.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
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What about when about to change level? Do they request traffic then?
And, whilst in G airspace, having left their cruising level, do they report this to centre?
Join Date: Jul 2010
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C'mon, name one operator that doesn't have pilots that make non standard calls. Jet pilots are just as bad at times...
) transmitted garbage the likes of which comes out of some IFR operators mouths these days. It's not being pedantic, when you working under the staffing numbers we are these days you need accurate, concise radio calls.