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Turbine C210

Old 10th Sep 2011, 01:05
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Turbine C210

Hello

Anyone got some hands on experience with one?.
Have done the usual Google stuff, Soloy etc, Silver Eagle.
After a rough conversion cost (dont need to be pressurised), running cost etc.
Any info or ideas would be appreciated.

Thankyou 33
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 02:39
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Sprucegoose
 
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What's the point of having a turbine if it's not pressurised? Fuel flow will almost halve at 20,000 feet compared to 10,000!
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 03:54
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Keep in mind that in Oz temp is generally above ISA often well above and that slows turbine powered aircraft down. The 215K in the pretty brochure is suddenly 195K or worse.Seems to be a lot of cash for a modest increase in speed. The NM/litre is only 65%of a normally aspirated 210 . You'd get a lot more bang for your buck installing a continental io550p. Ignoring fiscal common sense I love the climb rate and the TO and landing distances.
Cheers RA
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 04:15
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Gross weight

I know a guy who had paid his deposit and was ready to take delivery/ship to Oz when he discovered that the conversion was so over the advertised ZFW that it became a one person/full fuel aircraft.

He also talked about a few crashes in the US that were caused by CofG issues stemming from an inability to to load it properly.

UTR
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 05:42
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Was there not a US-registered example that came to grief somewhere near Armidale about 10 or 12 years back? Don't remember too many details, but have a vague recollection that it was turbulence related.

Is Va still 117KIAS after the conversion?
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 06:34
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Va and Vne stay the same, they are airframe limits, it is hard to see the point of Turbine conversion as the cost of turbine O haul / HSI is way more than the o haul cost of the trusty IO 520
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 13:26
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So get into the slightest bit of turbulence and you have to pull the power back. Whats the point again??? Its still a 30 year old plane with a new engine.
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 15:25
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From what I remember Vmo (as opposed to Vno) is at the top of the green in turbines, which means the quickest you can go in a turbine 210 will be around 166kts indicated. There's no yellow arc on the airspeed indicator and no Vne as such (201kts on IO-520 powered 210 that I fly).
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 17:38
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Surley an older Malibu Mirage would be a better option?
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 21:25
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How much extra for a 'van?
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 23:37
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I think maybe its more suited to parachute ops.
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Old 11th Sep 2011, 01:21
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Mate, for very little extra you could have a brand new engine and brand new airframe which could fit 10 people (plus a 450kg cargo pod if you want) in the form of a PAC750XL. I know of companies who have considered turbine conversions and then gone for this route instead. WAY better return on your investment and productivity prospects.
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Old 11th Sep 2011, 01:54
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Hello

Anyone got some hands on experience with one?.
Have done the usual Google stuff, Soloy etc, Silver Eagle.
After a rough conversion cost (dont need to be pressurised), running cost etc.
Any info or ideas would be appreciated.

Thankyou 33
It's always a mistake coming here for serious advice. The short answer appears to be no, no one here has hands-on experience with one or a rough idea of conversion costs. That won't stop them proffering you advice you didn't ask for on alternatives.
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Old 11th Sep 2011, 07:52
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Thank you for your replys

Basically Im looking for a low level survey aircraft hence the no pressurisatiuon.
Yes the PAC is the ultimate but at around $1.6+ it is pricey and if you are only running on wing tanks you can still only do the same if not less production as a C210 piston.
Im after turbine for power to weight and obviously saftey aswell.
A repowered fletcher with a PT6-21 ??, AT502 ??.
Any ideas chaps.
Looking foward to your colourful replys......
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Old 11th Sep 2011, 08:16
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What about a turbine A36? They look nice.

Welcome to Tradewind Turbines
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Old 11th Sep 2011, 23:30
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O&N are pretty much the only ones to consider. They now do a Non-Pressurised conversion.

it is still mega $$ as far as I am aware.

Yes with the P210 Silver Eagle conversion there was some recent MAJOR issues with the BEW of the plane making it almost useless.

I understand O & N are doing some major works in reducing the BEW.

The Non Pressurised conversions may not have that problem but I have not heard of anyone doing one.
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Old 12th Sep 2011, 05:47
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As gassed budgie mentioned when converting a piston arframe to a turboprop the airspeed limit is reduced.
No matter what the aircraft type being converted the Vno becomes the Vmo of the conversion.
Your old Vne no longer exists.
This is a requirement in FAR23 I think. I read an article fully explaining the reasons for this many years ago after seeing many converted aircraft types in the US.
One example was the conversion of the Piper Malibu to a t/prop. It was cheaper than buying a Meridian or TB850.

That difference is usually a large difference, as GB said for eg 166KIAS down from 201.
Being limited to such a low speed especially on descents will be a hassle. Most pressurized t/props will often be descending,in smooth air of course, at a speed up close to Vmo, compliant with airspace/atc speed limits.

Last edited by aussie027; 12th Sep 2011 at 05:58.
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Old 12th Sep 2011, 21:31
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What kind of survey? I ask because if it's photo the Turbine exhaust plume effects the quality of the photos. If you don't need pressurization how about a Soloy 206. There is a nice Mk 1 for sale in Australia for under $500K and a newish Mk2 in the states for $845K.

M & O operating cost for the Rolls engines is under $100 per hour fuel flow 26US gph.
Contact www.soloy.com for details.
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 00:47
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The chief engineer in Naracourte SA did a conversion. Sliced some of the wings off and put a kero burner in the front. Might be worth giving them a call, interesting project.

Have you considered about over-stressing the a/c with that sort of power in the front especially in summer when there is only really a good three hours in the day where it is not rough as guts at survey height? Kind of pointless if you are running it at half power most of the time. Data is not going to look that good either if you are screaming over peaks at around 200kts.
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 01:09
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Yeah that wing chop job 210 is a scary piece of work. Not sure I'd like to take a saw to the wings
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