Aircraft ditched off Sydney Northern Beaches this morning?
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The news broadcasts seemed to get their jollies though from playing back the mayday call to ATC...
Last edited by Jack Ranga; 3rd Sep 2011 at 06:20.
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I agree. 
It must be dreadful for the pilot's family and friends to have to deal with that on top of everything else. If it were my partner/Dad/brother it would be the last straw. It's completely unnecessary and adds nothing to the story whatsoever.
A good friend of mine was killed in a newsworthy car accident and it was absolutely rotten to flick on the telly and see his crunched up car and frantic ambulance trip on news bulletins. Actual voice recordings would be far worse. It was like the Army chopper accident a few years ago when they played the crash footage again and again and again, for months.
These days TV and radio media is an honour free zone. Rats have more pathos, dignity and integrity.
It must be dreadful for the pilot's family and friends to have to deal with that on top of everything else. If it were my partner/Dad/brother it would be the last straw. It's completely unnecessary and adds nothing to the story whatsoever. A good friend of mine was killed in a newsworthy car accident and it was absolutely rotten to flick on the telly and see his crunched up car and frantic ambulance trip on news bulletins. Actual voice recordings would be far worse. It was like the Army chopper accident a few years ago when they played the crash footage again and again and again, for months.
These days TV and radio media is an honour free zone. Rats have more pathos, dignity and integrity.
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I don't know that they actually demand it. I think they accept it blindly because it's there, as people used to accept public hangings and going to Bedlam for an entertaining look at the crazies fighting each other. A good chunk of the human race adds weight to the hairless chimpanzee theory but it doesn't mean that it should be encouraged.
If public opinion was all that counted the news would consist of porn, illegal music downloads and Nigerian scams. They're supposed to be better than that and they keep telling us they're better than that. It's starting to sound hollow.
As for the dive footage, I agree that's revolting. Why not go the whole Al Jazeera approach and show the dead bodies in car accidents? When criticized by Western journos claiming intellectual superiority (after several televised beheadings by terrorists) AJ just shrugged their collective shoulders and said 'That's what our public want.' Given half a chance I suppose a lot of our public would be the same. Bedlamworld, anyone? Kids get in free.
If public opinion was all that counted the news would consist of porn, illegal music downloads and Nigerian scams. They're supposed to be better than that and they keep telling us they're better than that. It's starting to sound hollow.
As for the dive footage, I agree that's revolting. Why not go the whole Al Jazeera approach and show the dead bodies in car accidents? When criticized by Western journos claiming intellectual superiority (after several televised beheadings by terrorists) AJ just shrugged their collective shoulders and said 'That's what our public want.' Given half a chance I suppose a lot of our public would be the same. Bedlamworld, anyone? Kids get in free.
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Hearing that the media have dived the wreckage of the aircraft where someones life was taken only this morning is so disturbing... all in search of some footage for their 6pm news, I don't think I can even describe the words that makes me feel, my stomach turns.
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I also heard a witness on the news say the angle of entry was 45 deg.
While its speculation, it sounds like a stall from a stretched glide, in which case, the pilot may have hit his head or lost consciousness on impact on the dashboard. There was also a description that it stayed afloat " for two mintues" but thats just what the guy on the beach said when interviewed.
I was thinking what I would do in the same situation, as I fly Victor 1 regularly. I read an article that was very well researched, and apparrently in GA ditchings the passenger survival rate is no different between high or low wing, or between retract UC or fixed UC.
I dont fly Victor one now if I have passengers in the rear seat - especially very old or very young.
For myself, if I thought the glide wasnt going to make it, I would probably try to land perpendicular to land, in the direction of the waves and a short distance out from the wave break. In the interest of public safety, for myself I would probably prefer a ditching rather than a landing on a busy beach, but thats just thinking of it a bit. But I grew up near the beaches and dont mind the surf.
We wear life vests on victor 1 for that reason.
For aircraft with fixed gear, doesn anyone have a few on the ideal ditching technique? My instinct is that a wheel first water contact risks a flip over.
May his dear family find some peace.
While its speculation, it sounds like a stall from a stretched glide, in which case, the pilot may have hit his head or lost consciousness on impact on the dashboard. There was also a description that it stayed afloat " for two mintues" but thats just what the guy on the beach said when interviewed.
I was thinking what I would do in the same situation, as I fly Victor 1 regularly. I read an article that was very well researched, and apparrently in GA ditchings the passenger survival rate is no different between high or low wing, or between retract UC or fixed UC.
I dont fly Victor one now if I have passengers in the rear seat - especially very old or very young.
For myself, if I thought the glide wasnt going to make it, I would probably try to land perpendicular to land, in the direction of the waves and a short distance out from the wave break. In the interest of public safety, for myself I would probably prefer a ditching rather than a landing on a busy beach, but thats just thinking of it a bit. But I grew up near the beaches and dont mind the surf.
We wear life vests on victor 1 for that reason.
For aircraft with fixed gear, doesn anyone have a few on the ideal ditching technique? My instinct is that a wheel first water contact risks a flip over.
May his dear family find some peace.
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'These days TV and radio media is an honour free zone. Rats have more pathos, dignity and integrity.' [quote from Worrals]
The tracking - voice - underwatering filming, all major crass actions.
If you are a shareholder [via superannuation] of any of the TV companies who must have offended you today. Give them a huge blast by email - they will not care unless the owners complain!
The tracking - voice - underwatering filming, all major crass actions.
If you are a shareholder [via superannuation] of any of the TV companies who must have offended you today. Give them a huge blast by email - they will not care unless the owners complain!
Thats a tragic accident. Ive flown that route several times. Looks like he was flying/gliding into a southerly headwind then did a low 180. There's a large polo pitch nearby that beach and Long Reef golf course further north as forced landing possibilities, but looks like he didnt have the height.My heart goes out to his family.
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Real Audio?
Given our great trust of the media maggots of late, are you sure that all of the audio is real?
Since when do ATC say: "Station calling Mayday say again" after hearing a well spoken Mayday call.
I thought the idea of saying MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY was to prick up the ears of the ATC so he/she could take all of the information in, in one hit, without distracting the pilot from the emergency situation with a second request and then activate the emergency response and/or offer further operational information.
Condolences to the family of the pilot and good luck to the controller with her post-trauma counselling.
Since when do ATC say: "Station calling Mayday say again" after hearing a well spoken Mayday call.
I thought the idea of saying MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY was to prick up the ears of the ATC so he/she could take all of the information in, in one hit, without distracting the pilot from the emergency situation with a second request and then activate the emergency response and/or offer further operational information.
Condolences to the family of the pilot and good luck to the controller with her post-trauma counselling.
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"Since when do ATC say: "Station calling Mayday say again" after hearing a well spoken Mayday call."
It seemed if my hearing was accurate that the initial transmission was not totally clear and was over transmitted by another broadcast... Hence the need for the clarification.
It seemed if my hearing was accurate that the initial transmission was not totally clear and was over transmitted by another broadcast... Hence the need for the clarification.
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In regards to the level of information being passed on by the media... I agree that it stinks... but I will say that in my experience, having lost a family member in a Sports Flying accident that the footage or the wreckage provided by the media was a positive thing in coming to grips with it.
Perhaps its a pilot thing as we all want to know what happened so may not apply in all cases.
In this case my Dad was on the runway behind the crash aircraft and jumped out and ran to help... Dad had a camera and even took photos of the wreckage himself and the ambulance departing the scene (not of the victim)... I think the old man was in shock at the time hence the photo taking and was unaware that the pilot had died in the ambulance before they departed the scene.... As hard as it was to look at the photos is did help strangely enough... even with my Uncle's bloody flying hat sitting on the crumpled wing.
Perhaps its different for non-flying people... but it helped me to come to grips with the tragedy.
Perhaps its a pilot thing as we all want to know what happened so may not apply in all cases.
In this case my Dad was on the runway behind the crash aircraft and jumped out and ran to help... Dad had a camera and even took photos of the wreckage himself and the ambulance departing the scene (not of the victim)... I think the old man was in shock at the time hence the photo taking and was unaware that the pilot had died in the ambulance before they departed the scene.... As hard as it was to look at the photos is did help strangely enough... even with my Uncle's bloody flying hat sitting on the crumpled wing.
Perhaps its different for non-flying people... but it helped me to come to grips with the tragedy.
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Let me first say condolences to the family of the pilot.
It's a sensitive subject, the art of watching, voyeurism so to speak. We are all guilty of it in some form or another. But what 'intheweeds' mentioned society demands it or at least expects photo's/footage of any accident. Take a look at the Space Shuttle that exploded not long after lift off some years ago. 7 died in that & we all watched it live! I know we where not expecting it but we watched the same footage over & over again for ages, no one was forced to watch it again but am sure we did at sometime or another latter on. Even our regulators desire such voyeurism in some adds for smoking & car accidents showing very graphic photos etc. We see the results of car accidents nightly on TV(& even out there on the roads), someone died in that tangled mess right there on our TV screens, are we really that desensitized to death that much?
Perhaps the TV announcers should have mentioned just before the footage came on TV of the wrecked plane that viewer discretion is advised. I'd make a fair bet that we ALL would have still watched it even if we where forewarned.
Tragic it is, news it is also but we do have a choice,don't watch it if yr offended as TV is now very interactive.
Wmk2
It's a sensitive subject, the art of watching, voyeurism so to speak. We are all guilty of it in some form or another. But what 'intheweeds' mentioned society demands it or at least expects photo's/footage of any accident. Take a look at the Space Shuttle that exploded not long after lift off some years ago. 7 died in that & we all watched it live! I know we where not expecting it but we watched the same footage over & over again for ages, no one was forced to watch it again but am sure we did at sometime or another latter on. Even our regulators desire such voyeurism in some adds for smoking & car accidents showing very graphic photos etc. We see the results of car accidents nightly on TV(& even out there on the roads), someone died in that tangled mess right there on our TV screens, are we really that desensitized to death that much?
Perhaps the TV announcers should have mentioned just before the footage came on TV of the wrecked plane that viewer discretion is advised. I'd make a fair bet that we ALL would have still watched it even if we where forewarned.
Tragic it is, news it is also but we do have a choice,don't watch it if yr offended as TV is now very interactive.
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 2nd Sep 2011 at 23:42.
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Yep, its a fact of life...death. Some are more unfortunate than others and from this sporns a fascination of sorts. Belief that it happened, for some its part of accepting the event, others the inquisitive mind and questioning why, and how could it have been different. Sometimes its educational, even if its a reminder of what can happen if you stuff up.
Ageed with Wally.......for once
....you have the choice and the power not to read/look. Just like threads that attract all the "lets wait for the report (in2-3 yrs), rather than discuss all sorts of scenario's that some folk learn from. You can just turn off or don't click the link.
Ageed with Wally.......for once
....you have the choice and the power not to read/look. Just like threads that attract all the "lets wait for the report (in2-3 yrs), rather than discuss all sorts of scenario's that some folk learn from. You can just turn off or don't click the link.
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My post is about what Brisbane's CH 7 news aired as audio coming from the pilot and ATC.
I don't know what was actually said, just what was presented on CH 7.
From INTHEWEEDS' comments it sounds like CH 7 are faking it - AGAIN.
I don't know what was actually said, just what was presented on CH 7.
From INTHEWEEDS' comments it sounds like CH 7 are faking it - AGAIN.
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I live quite close to this sad incident. It reminded me of another GA forced landing there around 1985, the a/c landing on the beach by the lagoon entrance and coming to rest inverted. Essentially this is the same spot only just off the beach. My thoughts are a beach landing at this time of the year would not have posed a high level risk to the public. It is unfortunate that for some reason the pilot did not have this option.
Last edited by truthinbeer; 3rd Sep 2011 at 02:09.
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I have only flown victor 1 once, a bit uncomfortable being low and off shore, I enjoyed it but was pretty happy to be back over land again,
very sad to hear his last words,
very sad to hear his last words,
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The mayday call was transmitted over the top of a call in progress from another aircraft and was heard by ATC. Whether or not you were near the aircraft would determine if you had heard it - as in the local broadcast would over-ride the repeater signal.
The recordings were not faked on the news - 2 mayday calls were made and the rego incorrectly relayed by the other aircraft.
The recordings were not faked on the news - 2 mayday calls were made and the rego incorrectly relayed by the other aircraft.
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Apology accepted 
I commend those that assist and have done it myself, however what frequently happens (not suggesting it happened here) but others get involved, radio traffic increases, adrenaline kicks in, confusion reins and important messages can be lost, for example the accident aircraft might be trying to transmit. Chinese whispers is what usually occurs. Hard to not want to get involved though.
Something I've heard a few times is when a beacon goes off, then slowly as aircraft come over to the area frequency they hear about the beacon then check 121.5 and report to centre, but usually centre has already asked specific aircraft for reports on the signal strength, but what ensues is a schmozel of non-essential radio calls. The way I look at it is that if radar wants details they will ask, but admittedly not always relevant. If you've heard the drama from the start you usually know when and weather to get involved.
I commend those that assist and have done it myself, however what frequently happens (not suggesting it happened here) but others get involved, radio traffic increases, adrenaline kicks in, confusion reins and important messages can be lost, for example the accident aircraft might be trying to transmit. Chinese whispers is what usually occurs. Hard to not want to get involved though.
Something I've heard a few times is when a beacon goes off, then slowly as aircraft come over to the area frequency they hear about the beacon then check 121.5 and report to centre, but usually centre has already asked specific aircraft for reports on the signal strength, but what ensues is a schmozel of non-essential radio calls. The way I look at it is that if radar wants details they will ask, but admittedly not always relevant. If you've heard the drama from the start you usually know when and weather to get involved.
@In the weeds, I assume you were aboard one of the two Blackhawks. Did you guys attend the scene at all? I assume you passed over on your way back down the coast that afternoon.