MERGED: Alligator Airways Grounded
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CP gig – 101.
I have managed to clean my screen, my disappointment will keep for another day.
A CP 'interview' is not a tea and bickies, feel good, fuzzy mutual stroking exercise. A potential CP would have more than a vague inkling that there was 'trouble at mill' before walking in. A seasoned CP would have come away from the meeting with at least two important pieces of paper.
1) An agreed written list of all the issues which were causing anxiety, signed by both parties. Including the alleged 'poisoned chalice' remarks.
This list is then studied by the CP and formatted into a time line, in order of priority detailing the proposed method of 'sorting' the perceived areas of discontent and the milestones. Handled a bit like a RCA.
2) Then at the second meeting with the FOI responsible a 'ways and means' agreement is hammered out and formalised. The local CASA manager needs to add an approval to this proposal and if warranted, agree to some additional surveillance. CASA may not be legally entitled to mentor or assist but they can survey and audit the crap out that puppy.
Thus armed the CP then invites the Operator and CASA to an Indaba. Here the agreed process is explained in detail and the operator's cooperation is ensured. Then can the CP go to work; stick to the process, meet the deadlines and engage CASA to sign off every milestone. With skill, determination and a little self generated luck it should be smiles all around within 3 months of kick off.
If not, there is an iron clad defence available against any change of heart by either the operator or the authority. Instead of this valiant but doomed charade:-
Being a CP means just a little more than looking pretty and making the right noises, you have to mean it; as you can see from this sorry episode - business, jobs, the community and almost several lives are hanging in the balance.
It's why they get the big bucks – right.
Steam off.
GS - CASA were determined that we would not succeed. They told me at the CP interview that, "the easiest way for us (CASA) to stop an operation from flying is to remove the Chief Pilot" and that "we (CASA) may have handed you (me) a poisoned chalice".
1) An agreed written list of all the issues which were causing anxiety, signed by both parties. Including the alleged 'poisoned chalice' remarks.
This list is then studied by the CP and formatted into a time line, in order of priority detailing the proposed method of 'sorting' the perceived areas of discontent and the milestones. Handled a bit like a RCA.
2) Then at the second meeting with the FOI responsible a 'ways and means' agreement is hammered out and formalised. The local CASA manager needs to add an approval to this proposal and if warranted, agree to some additional surveillance. CASA may not be legally entitled to mentor or assist but they can survey and audit the crap out that puppy.
Thus armed the CP then invites the Operator and CASA to an Indaba. Here the agreed process is explained in detail and the operator's cooperation is ensured. Then can the CP go to work; stick to the process, meet the deadlines and engage CASA to sign off every milestone. With skill, determination and a little self generated luck it should be smiles all around within 3 months of kick off.
If not, there is an iron clad defence available against any change of heart by either the operator or the authority. Instead of this valiant but doomed charade:-
GS - Kicking goals from the back line was our Solicitors comment and, cogent and compelling was the Judges comment on my testimony. Very well defended, he went on to say but he couldn't be held to account for letting Alligator fly again. 
It's why they get the big bucks – right.
Steam off.
Last edited by Kharon; 15th Jun 2012 at 21:46. Reason: Vomit prevention.
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Kharon,
Did you not read back either?
.... (CASA) tiiiiiimes, they are a' changin'!
I had a traditional view of CASA once too! Now, everyone, look out!
And I don't think it's just 1 FOI (who is known, far and wide) pushing his A/Regional Manager around. Although that is a possible scenario.
Kharon, have you stood in Fed Court against them?
God, why are you faceless Pruners sucking me in?
Rant over! I gotta go and paint - earn some coin.
Did you not read back either?
.... (CASA) tiiiiiimes, they are a' changin'!
I had a traditional view of CASA once too! Now, everyone, look out!
And I don't think it's just 1 FOI (who is known, far and wide) pushing his A/Regional Manager around. Although that is a possible scenario.
Kharon, have you stood in Fed Court against them?
God, why are you faceless Pruners sucking me in?
Rant over! I gotta go and paint - earn some coin.
Last edited by GedStreet; 15th Jun 2012 at 22:52. Reason: Opening eyes
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Blackhand,
If Kharon is who I think he is, he has had a lot of experience as a CP, both with Scheduled and Non-Scheduled operation within and without Australia ----- and knows the CASA (and predecessors) shortcomings (as the industry in general sees it) all too well.
And ( as it often says in the "rules") "for the absence of doubt", he has never been charged, let alone convicted, of an aviation offense.
Tootle pip!!
If Kharon is who I think he is, he has had a lot of experience as a CP, both with Scheduled and Non-Scheduled operation within and without Australia ----- and knows the CASA (and predecessors) shortcomings (as the industry in general sees it) all too well.
And ( as it often says in the "rules") "for the absence of doubt", he has never been charged, let alone convicted, of an aviation offense.
Tootle pip!!
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GS - Did you not read back either?
I apologise if my comments have caused you any offence; I assure you they were not directed at you personally or your short administration of Alligator. I was trying to illustrate that the CP position is not now (if it ever was) a 'safe' sinecure, but a high risk blood sport in which you play without a safety net, or a 'box'.
The 'new' CP needs to be every bit as ruthless and cunning as the opposition; and, make no mistake "they" are the enemy within, not me mate; not by a long shot.
Last edited by Kharon; 16th Jun 2012 at 08:32.
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I made my last comment in as much jest, as the comment I was replying to. Sad fact is, Ged's jesting comment is probably close to the truth.
Kharon, I am an avid reader of your amblings. The knowledge you impart here is invaluable.
I'd hazard a guess, that Ged was fully versed in his responsibilities. The problem I see, is the 'poisoned chalice' remark. CAsA were after the owner, no matter who was the CP, or how well they were doing.
To my simple mind, CAsA would be working through the underlying issues with the new CP (i.e fixing the sh*t) and also working with him/her as new ones came up. It strikes me that CAsA were simply awaiting an incident they could ground the company, and hopefully send it broke as a means of securing a safety outcome. It didn't matter how good the CP was, sometime, someone in the company was going to make a mistake, and that was always going to be the end of the chapter. So much for having a pro-active CP that they should be WORKING WITH.
As you say Kharon, CAsA are not interested in promoting safety, merely prosecuting lack of safety. In the words of the RVAC president, "it's inevitable" a mistake will be made. CAsA are not interested in fixing that sort of things with a company...shutting it down produces a faster result.
But does it really?
The loss of alligator, removes a service. A service that makes money. So you can guarantee that there will be one or more startup operators to replace alligator. So now CAsA has to start again with appointment of people, implentation of handbooks etc etc etc.
So they start again, beating down the same path.
stoopid mofo's.
Kharon, I am an avid reader of your amblings. The knowledge you impart here is invaluable.
I'd hazard a guess, that Ged was fully versed in his responsibilities. The problem I see, is the 'poisoned chalice' remark. CAsA were after the owner, no matter who was the CP, or how well they were doing.
To my simple mind, CAsA would be working through the underlying issues with the new CP (i.e fixing the sh*t) and also working with him/her as new ones came up. It strikes me that CAsA were simply awaiting an incident they could ground the company, and hopefully send it broke as a means of securing a safety outcome. It didn't matter how good the CP was, sometime, someone in the company was going to make a mistake, and that was always going to be the end of the chapter. So much for having a pro-active CP that they should be WORKING WITH.
As you say Kharon, CAsA are not interested in promoting safety, merely prosecuting lack of safety. In the words of the RVAC president, "it's inevitable" a mistake will be made. CAsA are not interested in fixing that sort of things with a company...shutting it down produces a faster result.
But does it really?
The loss of alligator, removes a service. A service that makes money. So you can guarantee that there will be one or more startup operators to replace alligator. So now CAsA has to start again with appointment of people, implentation of handbooks etc etc etc.
So they start again, beating down the same path.
stoopid mofo's.
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The Age 9/6/2012 John Sylvester- Sly
There is a video in this link but you need a subscription:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...608-201bm.html
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...608-201bm.html
Last edited by muddergoose; 8th Aug 2021 at 10:09.
There is a video in this link but you need a subscription:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...608-201bm.html
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...608-201bm.html
