MERGED: Petrol exempt from carbon tax. Aviation included?
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If, as I suspect, this government continues to bomb in the polls after the Carbon Tax announcement and if the ALP sincerely means that it has the country's best interests at heart then they should call a double dissolution so that the rats in the Upper House can be cleared out at the same time as the vermin in the Lower House.
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Gents (and gentesses), I've come to what some might think a rather contrarian conclusion in regards to the actions of Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor in backing the Gillard "government" (to use that last word lather loosely).
Rather than see them as total oxygen thieves who've clearly acted against the wishes of the vast majority of their voters in their electorates, I find myself wondering if history won't see them as Conservative heroes who committed personal political suicide in an high-minded endeavour to ensure that even the thickest and most rusted-on Labor supporters among the collective Australian electorate would have the blinkers forcibly removed from their eyes by making them endure a whole term of idiotic Labor government, ensuring that Labor will never set their sorry arses on the government benches again for a generation.
Of course, on the other hand, they both might just be total oxygen thieves...
Rather than see them as total oxygen thieves who've clearly acted against the wishes of the vast majority of their voters in their electorates, I find myself wondering if history won't see them as Conservative heroes who committed personal political suicide in an high-minded endeavour to ensure that even the thickest and most rusted-on Labor supporters among the collective Australian electorate would have the blinkers forcibly removed from their eyes by making them endure a whole term of idiotic Labor government, ensuring that Labor will never set their sorry arses on the government benches again for a generation.
Of course, on the other hand, they both might just be total oxygen thieves...
I wouldn't want to be either of those two when QLink put their airfares up due 'carbon tax'. Not a lot of competition on any of those routes (accept maybe Virgin on YPMQ, but they will be hit even harder as they burn more).
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Anyone else neither a family or a "battler"? After listening to a fortnight of federal government PR spin I'm starting to feel like one of these...Stealth Voter, invisible to ALP radar. 
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I just endured the 5 minutes of Jiliar spruiking her line. The fake "earnest, sympathetic" tone of voice was a bit difficult to take, (and so obviously carefully rehearsed), but the "it won't only not cost you anything, but you'll get more in your pocket than we take from you" seems to have hit the target with many journos, and, I suspect, with many of the so-called battlers.
I nearly choked when I saw the unwashed "students" celebrating the imposition of the tax, particularly the boban who siad it was like having his birthday, his 21st birthday and Christmas all in one. God help us all. People like that get to vote.
The devil, I feel, will be in the details, and just how quickly those details become apparent to the majority of voters will decide if she succeeds in selling - and inflicting - this crock to and on us all.
I nearly choked when I saw the unwashed "students" celebrating the imposition of the tax, particularly the boban who siad it was like having his birthday, his 21st birthday and Christmas all in one. God help us all. People like that get to vote.
The devil, I feel, will be in the details, and just how quickly those details become apparent to the majority of voters will decide if she succeeds in selling - and inflicting - this crock to and on us all.
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Anyone else neither a family or a "battler"?
I'm a battler - self-funded retiree, under the tax line (thanks to the UK/Aus$ situation), not an Australian pensioner etc etc.
But, as far as I can see, there's nothing in the pot of gold for me and I will be standing alongside Mr George Smith of 43 Railway Mansions as the blokes who are going to have to pay for Juliar's self-erected and delusional monument to greatness.
Thanks for nuthin' Witch.
Sprucegoose
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It turns out I am in the 'elite' 7.95% of Australians who will have to pay, who would have thought? 
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Something's just occurred to me. Someone's going to have to calculate how much carbon each polluter is emitting and then collecting the money. So am I alone in thinking that this will mean another couple of thousand well paid public servants shuffling paper? And am I also alone in thinking that each polluter will be employing an office full of lawyers who will be contesting that they are not in fact emitting as much carbon as the public serfs say they are?
I see yet another huge totally non-productive "Ca'ching!" for the lawyers and the public serfs.
And on another topic: how many of the "thousands" of Green jobs that Bob Brown assures us "will" be created after he destroys the coal, steel (and who knows what other) industries will actually produce anything?
I see yet another huge totally non-productive "Ca'ching!" for the lawyers and the public serfs.
And on another topic: how many of the "thousands" of Green jobs that Bob Brown assures us "will" be created after he destroys the coal, steel (and who knows what other) industries will actually produce anything?
I am just a dumb arsed pilot, so I've probably missed something ... but it just doesn't add up to me:
OBJECTIVE: Save the Planet
METHOD:
OUTCOME: Planet still waiting to be saved... and, as someone mentioned ... wealth re-distributed
OBJECTIVE: Save the Planet
METHOD:
- Charge dirty industry $20
- Dirty Industry will pass $20 charge onto customer
- Government will pay customer $21
- Final deficet is something like -$2bn
- Taxpayers have to come up with extra $2bn, through taxes
OUTCOME: Planet still waiting to be saved... and, as someone mentioned ... wealth re-distributed
Quick back of the envelope calculation...
On every 100 tones of jet fuel you are now looking at an excise increase of about $7700 to over $13,000!!!!! That's a lot of coin in anyone's language.
I wouldn't want to guess how much this is about to hit the domestic aviation sector. There is simply no practical alternative to air transport in this nation.
Price sensitive areas of the market (read Tiger and Jetstar in particular) are going to be hit hard. Virgin will also be hit hard as it relies so much on the domestic market. QANTAS? Well, who knows wtf QANTAS are going to be doing after 24th August anyway.
I doubt Senators Milne and Brown are planning to row back to Tasmania by the way.
On every 100 tones of jet fuel you are now looking at an excise increase of about $7700 to over $13,000!!!!! That's a lot of coin in anyone's language.
I wouldn't want to guess how much this is about to hit the domestic aviation sector. There is simply no practical alternative to air transport in this nation.
Price sensitive areas of the market (read Tiger and Jetstar in particular) are going to be hit hard. Virgin will also be hit hard as it relies so much on the domestic market. QANTAS? Well, who knows wtf QANTAS are going to be doing after 24th August anyway.
I doubt Senators Milne and Brown are planning to row back to Tasmania by the way.
Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 11th Jul 2011 at 00:22.
We're worse than stealth voter's Worrals.
We're in the 10% 'target' demographic
Family income tax is already up $10/week thanks to the flood levy.
And no-one in Canberra seems to make allowances for the higher cost of raising a family in remote Australia when identifying "rich" families.
RICH? I wish!
I just want to know where they are finding the savings to fund the $2.9 billion up front shortfall.
We're in the 10% 'target' demographic
Family income tax is already up $10/week thanks to the flood levy.
And no-one in Canberra seems to make allowances for the higher cost of raising a family in remote Australia when identifying "rich" families.
RICH? I wish!
I just want to know where they are finding the savings to fund the $2.9 billion up front shortfall.
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the extra 2.9Bilion will come from the increase in GST revenue after its added to the prices with carbon tax already added. $1 in carbon tax revenue will also attract $0.10 in GST increase as well. and dont forget, the Aviation fuel excise increase will increase very 6 months, not year
Sprucegoose
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Someone's going to have to calculate how much carbon each polluter is emitting and then collecting the money. So am I alone in thinking that this will mean another couple of thousand well paid public servants shuffling paper?
And here's my results..
...total annual Government assistance would be: $6 per year
Of this...
...assistance provided through Australian Government payments would be: $0 per year
...and assistance through tax changes would be: $6 per year
Of this...
...assistance provided through Australian Government payments would be: $0 per year
...and assistance through tax changes would be: $6 per year
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Carbon Tax and The Airlines
Just listening to the radio here,
Whilst I myself havent yet delved into the specifics yet, Newsradio was just reporting that there is going to be NO assistance for the Aviation industry when the tax is introduced.
QF saying that they will pass any incurred costs onto pax. Does anyone know roughly wha the impact is likely to be? How will we be able to compete with other countries that dont have a carbon tax and therefore have cheaper fares etc?
Am I the only one thinking that we are headed for a pretty uncertain time here? Im not just talking about the Big guys here either, what about al the little freight runners, mail runners, charter co's etc that will now have massive cost increases to pass on? This is going to hurt some sectors very badly i would have thought??
Whilst I myself havent yet delved into the specifics yet, Newsradio was just reporting that there is going to be NO assistance for the Aviation industry when the tax is introduced.
QF saying that they will pass any incurred costs onto pax. Does anyone know roughly wha the impact is likely to be? How will we be able to compete with other countries that dont have a carbon tax and therefore have cheaper fares etc?
Am I the only one thinking that we are headed for a pretty uncertain time here? Im not just talking about the Big guys here either, what about al the little freight runners, mail runners, charter co's etc that will now have massive cost increases to pass on? This is going to hurt some sectors very badly i would have thought??
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Was thinking about starting a new thread titled "Will JQ Pass on Carbon Tax a la Fuel Surcharge?"
Could JQ make it any more obvious how much QF is subsidising them by openly refusing to pass on the Carbon Tax Surcharge?
Could JQ make it any more obvious how much QF is subsidising them by openly refusing to pass on the Carbon Tax Surcharge?
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Meanwhile the most inefficient form of transport the motor car is not taxed. Neither are trucks.
The carbon tax will encourage people to drive more cars and push them away from mass transport because trains and planes will be paying the tax. Aviation will be paying the full economic cost of the carbon tax.
Carbon tax also won't factor in the environmental damage done by building roads, a comparative advantage that aviation has over cars/trains/buses/trucks.
If the Greens/Labor government were anywhere near serious about this they would be encouraging people to get out of motor cars and into:
Bicycles
Public Transport (bus/train)
Planes
Walking
Sailing
Instead they are going to increase the cost of public transport and aviation (which is very efficient form of transport) and leaving the motor car exempt. Would have to be one of the most hypocritical policies ever made by any government anywhere.
IF the carbon tax is about saving the world then tax EVERYTHING no exceptions.
The carbon tax will encourage people to drive more cars and push them away from mass transport because trains and planes will be paying the tax. Aviation will be paying the full economic cost of the carbon tax.
Carbon tax also won't factor in the environmental damage done by building roads, a comparative advantage that aviation has over cars/trains/buses/trucks.
If the Greens/Labor government were anywhere near serious about this they would be encouraging people to get out of motor cars and into:
Bicycles
Public Transport (bus/train)
Planes
Walking
Sailing
Instead they are going to increase the cost of public transport and aviation (which is very efficient form of transport) and leaving the motor car exempt. Would have to be one of the most hypocritical policies ever made by any government anywhere.
IF the carbon tax is about saving the world then tax EVERYTHING no exceptions.
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...the average price impact would be: $485 per year
...total annual Government assistance would be: $3 per year