Is Ag. Flying considered a poor career choice?

[yr right]

As some one that has grown up in Ag. It's changed so much over the years. As for doggy operators not many of them left. Spray drift is also an issue that is tightly controlled as with chemical cans etc. the industry is not what it was once. Those days are long gone. Like flying under wires. There no old bold Ag pilots. But also pay for pilots is far better than what it once was at all. You canals a great living from it. But remember if you start in it listen listen and listen. Watch watch and watch some more from the people tat are doing it now. When you consider the amount of flying that is varied out in Ag each year and the accident rate it's prove that the industry has grown. Just try and get yourself into the best company you can from the start. You will know who they are.
Cheers and good luck

[desert goat]

There was a thread on here a while back about a documentary being made on the industry ("Seasons" I think it was called)...does anyone know if it's available yet?

[airag]

Seasons

G'/day Desert goat,

Yes Seasons has just had it's first public viewing at the AAAA Conference in Hobart a couple of weeks ago with very positive reviews. Conflict Films produced the documentary and can be contacted via their website.

[Pearly White]

If you want to know what ag was like back in the day when Pontious was still a -well you know, a long time ago - read

Six Feet Over by Peter Charles

Six Feet Over by Peter Charles

. Probably still available on Amazon.

[desert goat]

Thanks for that airag- Will see about getting a copy.

[Lucerne]

Centaurus,

You may well be able to get a 737 type rating for the same outlay as the agricultural rating. However, by that time you will also have outlayed for an instrument rating, possibly an instructor rating, an ATPL, and you can't expect to make the same return on that far greater outlay as the ag pilot's earlier and far higher return.

Thankfully, CASA have granted a dispensation for the operation of 802,s and Dromaders at weights exceeding 5,700kg as the ATPL course bares little relevance to their operation. That, however, doesn't mean that any old punter will find themselves in the seat of an 802. Only about half of the contenders that find employment as loader/mixers will continue on to ag flying positions. Much less than half of those will pregress to the seat of an 802.

Today there are far fewer ag aircraft being operated in 1st world countries due to the characteristic of the large hopper capacity and wide swath width being an unbeatable formula for operational efficiency. Therefore there are less seats available and far less ag hours flown per year. This is not a contraction in the industry by any means. We will probably not see the busy days of the late 1990's again due to some technological cropping advancements and a far greater operational capacity to cover the work.

That equates to far greater advantage to those who reach the coveted seats of the world's increasing fleet of 800 gallon machines.

[Sir HC]

Interesting first post Bess, that's quite the agenda you're pushing.

[Neville Nobody]

Bess where did Lucerne say he was "special"? Is there some history there?


Is persevering and being in the right place at the right time the same as lingering on the fringes of the industry? What is the difference?


Are you branding all Ag plots as "best of a bad bunch"

[Lucerne]

That must have been a bit of a "short circuit" there from Bess. I see he's deleted it. That's probably a good thing.

[Virtually There]

This is a serious question - and obviously comes from a complete city-slicker who knows nothing - but do you guys not worry about some of the chemicals you are handling/spraying and the long-term consequences of exposure to pesticides and herbicides?

I must admit, it's the perception of chemical risk - warranted or otherwise - that has always put me off even considering crop-dusting.

[currawong]

Obviously, exposure is kept to a minimum.

Many industries handle materials that are less than user friendly.

Done properly, it should not present too much of a problem.

[HarleyD]

Virtually There

I am having difficulty grasping your summation that the risk from chemicals is what is putting you off considering a career as an Ag Pilot

I would suggest that complete ignorance and an inability to do even basic research is what will prevent that career goal.

Your facile premise that city folk have no truck with chemicals is almost beyond belief. Do you fill your car with a very toxic chemical that you then burn and produce other toxic chemicals which you then sit in traffic congestion and inhale for extended periods, like everyone else In that same city traffic? Do you clean your toilet? Do you tip all sorts of stuff on hour head to make your hair look nice without reading the label? Do you use ........fly spray..... In your house? Is your home protected against white ants? Do you fertilise your garden? Do you put salt on your food? Do you eat ..gag... MacDonalds, or any other fast food franchise food?

But it's the chemicals that frighten you away from Ag flying

If they were so bad, and so badly handled as some here claim, Ag pilots would have a hugely higher mortality rate than other career professionals.

Be frightened of being burnt alive, or smashed to pulp like some number of my friends have been. DDT was banned some years ago. It has the same mammalian LD50 toxicity as Sodium Chloride. You could sprinkle it on your food. There has never been a human death attributed to it, but it's banned.

Not to say there are not some nasties out there, but do you not think that pilots are operators have training, require formal certification in the characteristics, handling requirements and hazards associated with AGRICULTURAL chemicals? Answer is that Ag pilots and loaders are required to undertake training and hold certificates, for each state they work in and renew them annually. Also 4A's has accreditation scheme as well.

In any case I refused to use some particular chemicals even though they were legal at the time, just because I didn't want to take the risk of potential drift claims. I was PIC and what I said was ok with my boss. Not all bosses quite so understanding of course.

You prolly live under some huge transmission lines and have turbo charged WIFI in your home as well, but at least you are well clear of those scary wind generators.....oh Noooooooo.........Yr Right will be chiming in again soon with some more abject nonsense..

I need a holiday

HD

[Virtually There]

Originally Posted by HarleyD

In any case I refused to use some particular chemicals even though they were legal at the time, just because I didn't want to take the risk of potential drift claims.

Thanks, Harley - that pretty much answers my question.

Now I'll answer some of yours . . .

Your facile premise that city folk have no truck with chemicals is almost beyond belief.

Can't see where I wrote that, so can't answer that one. Sorry.

Do you fill your car with a very toxic chemical that you then burn and produce other toxic chemicals which you then sit in traffic congestion and inhale for extended periods, like everyone else In that same city traffic?

Yes. I use an ethanol blend and do what I can to reduce emissions.

Do you clean your toilet?

No, my wife does. She uses hydrogen peroxide and eucalyptus oil.

Do you tip all sorts of stuff on hour head to make your hair look nice without reading the label?

Always read the labels, and always use brands that avoid caustics, SLS, phosphates, propyl, glyco, palm oil and are not tested on animals.

In fact, we used to make and sell our own brand of shampoo and bodywash through our company that specialised in natural and organic products.

Do you use ........fly spray..... In your house?

Pyrethrum in a pump - not aerosols.

Is your home protected against white ants?

Not that I'm aware of - won't let the stuff near my house. Doesn't mean some of the materials originally used weren't treated.

Do you fertilise your garden?

No. Not unless you classify compost and mulch as fertiliser. Which I guess it is. But that's not what you meant, was it?

Do you put salt on your food?

No. I cook with it, though.

Do you eat ..gag... MacDonalds, or any other fast food franchise food?

Never.


Of course, I'm not a hypocrite and am not suggesting that all the fuel and avgas I've burned over the years hasn't been harmful. Nor that my very existence on this earth has been completely chemical-free and non-destructive to the environment.

But every little bit counts and I do try to avoid unnecessary exposure to known carcinogens if I can. No-one's perfect, and I don't claim to be.

Now, if you can't grasp the concept that "warranted or not", concern over something I'm not in a position to fully understand (are you a chemist, biochemist, MD or other medical specialist BTW? Because I'm not) has put me off a potential career path, then might I politely suggest that you're the one who has a problem with it and not me?

Because that's pretty much how your post came across. Hope you can grasp that bit. Cheers.


EDIT: OK, curiosity got the better of me . . .

LD50
DDT - 113mg/kg
NaCl - 3000mg/kg

I won't bore you with the long list of peer-reviewed medical evidence linking DDT to breast cancer, leukemia, premature births, miscarriages, diabetes, infertility, developmental neurotoxicity etc (even the WHO, which advocates DDT use in controlling malaria - though has been winding down that position since 2011 due to new evidence - acknowledges it accumulates in the environment and in humans, that it is toxic to children, and that its long-term health impacts are a "concern").

But I will leave you with this from the US NCBI: "Given the current evidence, an unqualified statement that DDT as used in IRS is safe is untenable." DDT and Malaria Prevention: Addressing the Paradox

So you go ahead and sprinkle that **** on your fish and chips while I stick to my "abject nonsense". I'll take my pinch of salt with everything you write.

[Virtually There]

To everyone else, apologies for the rant. I asked what I thought was a genuine question. I was obviously naive to think I wouldn't be called to arms over it.

[Berealgetreal]

Aviation is a poor choice full stop for a career.

[currawong]

Troll alert

[youngmic]

Well that was interesting...

Harley who is unquestionably a highly regarded stalwart of the Aerial Ag industry delivered what I thought a cutting but brilliantly poignant appraisal of the reality of modern chemical application as opposed to the supposedly chemical adverse and chemically free city brethren's (Virtually there) impression of chemical application.

However hats off to you Virtually There that was a brilliant response.

Should you ever feel the desire to cross to the other side I am sure there is a place for you in the Aerial Ag Industry...you have the necessary smarts and wit to be a safe campaigner.

[Berealgetreal]

Nothing to do with being a troll, just a different opinion. Probably been on pprune longer than you've been alive.

[currawong]

1/ Think a little bit harder as to where the Troll Alert was directed

2/ Time on Pprune is hardly the measure of the man

Good day.

[Virtually There]

youngmic, I'm in awe at the way these guys fly.

Not so much some of the attitude.

At least I've been put straight behind the scenes about what's going on. To those people, thanks for taking the time to explain.