Route to being an airline pilot for a young kiwi
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Route to being an airline pilot for a young kiwi
I've got a young cousin down in the Godzone pestering me about the best way to get a carrier as an airline pilot in New Zealand. I live in the Northern end of the world and I am afraid I cannot be of much help to him.
He had just completed middle school and will be in high school soon. He plans to embark on flying right after high school. I have advised him that a college or university degree would be very much helpful but he is insistent that a flying school will suffice.
Does Air New Zealand, JetStar or Virgin Australia have any cadet pilot programme suitable for a Kiwi wannabe?
What about the route through small regional airlines...is this advisable?
Thanks for your indulgence, ppruners down south
He had just completed middle school and will be in high school soon. He plans to embark on flying right after high school. I have advised him that a college or university degree would be very much helpful but he is insistent that a flying school will suffice.
Does Air New Zealand, JetStar or Virgin Australia have any cadet pilot programme suitable for a Kiwi wannabe?
What about the route through small regional airlines...is this advisable?
Thanks for your indulgence, ppruners down south
I have advised him that a college or university degree would be very much helpful but he is insistent that a flying school will suffice.
Does Air New Zealand, JetStar or Virgin Australia have any cadet pilot programme suitable for a Kiwi wannabe?
What about the route through small regional airlines...is this advisable?
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I can see 1000's of pilots all over this blue planet reading this thread and thinking of a polite way to discourage our young Kiwi friend from making a mistake.
A career in anything else would prove more profitable, maybe healthier, and a lot less stressful.
Given the sychophantic GenY managers who continue to dislocate the pilot body in search of inflated bonuses.. could go on forever!!
Sadly.
Blue Foot
A career in anything else would prove more profitable, maybe healthier, and a lot less stressful.
Given the sychophantic GenY managers who continue to dislocate the pilot body in search of inflated bonuses.. could go on forever!!
Sadly.
Blue Foot
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Kilda Ste Hilda.
Have you tried our Search function? All your questions and more would be answered in great detail.
Have you tried our Search function? All your questions and more would be answered in great detail.
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train as a town planner..specialise in public transport infrastrucure..get a job for the Auckland City Council (sorry Supercity) Retire by thirty..buy your own plane
PS never buy a house in the supercity, the rates will ruin you
PS never buy a house in the supercity, the rates will ruin you
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Does Air New Zealand, JetStar or Virgin Australia have any cadet pilot programme suitable for a Kiwi wannabe?
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Don’t put your daughter on the stage, Mrs. Worthington
Don’t put your daughter on the stage
The profession is overcrowded
The struggle’s pretty tough
And admitting the fact she’s burning to act
That isn’t quite enough
She’s a nice girl and though her teeth are fairly good
She’s not the type I ever would be eager to engage
I repeat, Mrs. Worthington, sweet Mrs. Worthington
Don’t put your daughter on the stage
Noel Coward, 1947. The same cautions apply for wannabe pilots, even when they want to put themselves on the stage! They are two very similar industries.
Don’t put your daughter on the stage
The profession is overcrowded
The struggle’s pretty tough
And admitting the fact she’s burning to act
That isn’t quite enough
She’s a nice girl and though her teeth are fairly good
She’s not the type I ever would be eager to engage
I repeat, Mrs. Worthington, sweet Mrs. Worthington
Don’t put your daughter on the stage
Noel Coward, 1947. The same cautions apply for wannabe pilots, even when they want to put themselves on the stage! They are two very similar industries.
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Remoak will be along shortly, and on this topic I will be inclined to agree with him.
If the lad really, really, really wants to do it, tell him to go for it, because nothing we say is going to stop him anyway.
If he isn't 1000% committed, tell him to be smart and go get an MBA. More money, more time off, no six monthly checks to worry about.
If he can get a Euro passport, tell him to get over there and do a JAA/EASA licence. Far more jobs on much better machinery, with far bigger airlines than Air NZ which is pretty puny in international terms. Better money too.
If he has to stay in NZ, warn him that NZ aviation is a parochial backwater, and that bending over and taking it like a man is the standard method of advancement...
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Every one here is being pretty negative to be honest, however I do agree with remoak. If he is sitting on the fence, tell him to go to his local and get a trial flight. Air NZ has start a flight training program, however IT IS NOT A CADETSHIP, what you do is go to one of the 5 FTO (Massey, Hawkes Bay, Nelson, Christchurch, southern wings) and you do your training there, then you are given the chance to do an airline integration course, C-Cat rating and one other thing which I have forgotten. I don't know how but somehow you end up in an interview with Air NZ and you are eartagged for the recruit to group thing. I may be a little off on this info (flak jacket on), but the majority of it is correct. There are other ways to get a job in NZ, aero club c-cats, earn your hours and head to asia. Or there is the Jetstar cadetship at ctc. However this has been beaten to a pulp on PPrune so just search it and you'll sort it. I've just been through the CTC selection process for the wings program, and they said that Jetstar guarantee a command on the 320 within 6 years, can't see how they make that but im not jetstar.
Anyway here endith the rant
Anyway here endith the rant
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Go To Europe - but not straight away
Remoak has hit the nail on the head, but I would suggest doing the training in NZ.
Select a NZ training school that offers the JAA/EASA airline pilot program and do as much of the training as possible in NZ, the cost of flying is a lot cheaper. If possible tack on the NZ Frozen ATPL to the JAA/EASA Frozen ATPL. Don't forget to make maximum use of the student loan scheme.
With the necessary pieces of paper in his hot little hand, head to Europe and get a job with Rynair, etc. Sitting in the right hand seat of a B738 with 300 hrs is a way better way of building hours. Then when he has enough hours and is sick of the Michael O'Leary types head to the UAE to play on the really cool aeroplanes.
This is seems to be the norm up here, so if he can, jump on the bandwagon.
Select a NZ training school that offers the JAA/EASA airline pilot program and do as much of the training as possible in NZ, the cost of flying is a lot cheaper. If possible tack on the NZ Frozen ATPL to the JAA/EASA Frozen ATPL. Don't forget to make maximum use of the student loan scheme.
With the necessary pieces of paper in his hot little hand, head to Europe and get a job with Rynair, etc. Sitting in the right hand seat of a B738 with 300 hrs is a way better way of building hours. Then when he has enough hours and is sick of the Michael O'Leary types head to the UAE to play on the really cool aeroplanes.
This is seems to be the norm up here, so if he can, jump on the bandwagon.
Tell him to get a student loan, get his CPL, come to Australia, buy as many endorsements as he can with all the fruit (Baron, PA31, PN68, C310, and C402) then the Australian company gets a free Pilot. It helps GA in keeping their costs down so they can reinvest in their modern fleets.
Don't worry though, he'll have his student loan money to survive off so he can work for free to build some hours. Many of his brethren have been using this trick for years. He can make a couple of bucks doing back charters if the student loan money is getting a little low. Works especially well in Alice
How else do those Kiwis seem to afford $300 RM Williams boots, serengetti sunglasses, Bose headsets and work for free?
After a couple of years he can then buy an A320 endorsement, work for Jitstar in NZ and screw the NZ Pilots for the final slam dunk. It's okay though, he hates them anyway. If they didn't steal his job in NZ by sweeping hangers and washing aeroplanes for 2 years for free before they got a flying job, he wouldn't have been forced to move to the dessert in OZ to get a flying job.
If that fails, he can offer his services at half price to secure a lucrative contract in Asia. Just make sure he buys another endorsement to make himself more employable. A dual A320/737 type endorsement would be the ticket.
Seems to be the NZ way. Thats why Kiwis are so respected on the expat market. They are always happy to help out the employers when they can.
Biiiched as
Don't worry though, he'll have his student loan money to survive off so he can work for free to build some hours. Many of his brethren have been using this trick for years. He can make a couple of bucks doing back charters if the student loan money is getting a little low. Works especially well in Alice
How else do those Kiwis seem to afford $300 RM Williams boots, serengetti sunglasses, Bose headsets and work for free? After a couple of years he can then buy an A320 endorsement, work for Jitstar in NZ and screw the NZ Pilots for the final slam dunk. It's okay though, he hates them anyway. If they didn't steal his job in NZ by sweeping hangers and washing aeroplanes for 2 years for free before they got a flying job, he wouldn't have been forced to move to the dessert in OZ to get a flying job.
If that fails, he can offer his services at half price to secure a lucrative contract in Asia. Just make sure he buys another endorsement to make himself more employable. A dual A320/737 type endorsement would be the ticket.
Seems to be the NZ way. Thats why Kiwis are so respected on the expat market. They are always happy to help out the employers when they can.
Biiiched as
Ahh Goblin. I know its mostly a wind up, but get your facts straight!
Its been at least 6 years, and possibly quite a few more, since the student loan money ended up in the student's bank account, bar the NZ$150 a week living costs that one can borrow while studying full time. i.e not in Australia.
I know of quite a few Kiwis that have come to Australia, none of which bought any rating of any kind.
Also, the majority of these Kiwis are actually AFAP members and are working for better conditions for everyone, unlike the local freshly minted CPLs that will work for peanuts. (Not that we havent all been there)
Don't forget, its the Australian companies in NZ that are pushing the terms and conditions there downwards, not the other way around. So, if a few want to leave for the better pay in OZ, then why not eh?
[RM Williams, serengetti? If thats true it sounds like the NT could be a bit of a haven for sausage factory CPL graduate Kiwis that have not actually ever worked in NZ - probably for a very good reason!]
Its been at least 6 years, and possibly quite a few more, since the student loan money ended up in the student's bank account, bar the NZ$150 a week living costs that one can borrow while studying full time. i.e not in Australia.
I know of quite a few Kiwis that have come to Australia, none of which bought any rating of any kind.
Also, the majority of these Kiwis are actually AFAP members and are working for better conditions for everyone, unlike the local freshly minted CPLs that will work for peanuts. (Not that we havent all been there)
Don't forget, its the Australian companies in NZ that are pushing the terms and conditions there downwards, not the other way around. So, if a few want to leave for the better pay in OZ, then why not eh?
[RM Williams, serengetti? If thats true it sounds like the NT could be a bit of a haven for sausage factory CPL graduate Kiwis that have not actually ever worked in NZ - probably for a very good reason!]
Frozen ATPL
If possible tack on the NZ Frozen ATPL to the JAA/EASA Frozen ATPL.
What do you think a frozen NZ ATPL is?
I have never managed to find any such thing in Part 61!
You either hold an ATPL or you don't!
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c100driver
OOPS - I seem to have hit a nerve
Haven't read Part 61 for awhile, so aren't up with the current terminology.
Too busy reading JAR material to get a JAR/EASA CPL & Instructor rating here, as my NZ ones aren't worth a pinch of rubber dog sh*t from Hong Kong up here.
Was referring to the training that all the big schools offer - airline qualifications but not the hours. Call it what you like, but IMHO if you can get multiple countries to recognise your training all at once, then that's well an good. Now if only there was an international civil aviation organisation that set standards that EVERYONE recognised.
Haven't read Part 61 for awhile, so aren't up with the current terminology.
Too busy reading JAR material to get a JAR/EASA CPL & Instructor rating here, as my NZ ones aren't worth a pinch of rubber dog sh*t from Hong Kong up here.
Was referring to the training that all the big schools offer - airline qualifications but not the hours. Call it what you like, but IMHO if you can get multiple countries to recognise your training all at once, then that's well an good. Now if only there was an international civil aviation organisation that set standards that EVERYONE recognised.
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Alex
Jetstar DO NOT guarantee a command or anything else for that matter after six years.
CTC are bull****ting if thats the case.
As everyone knows, or should very quickly learn- there are no promises in aviation.
Jetstar DO NOT guarantee a command or anything else for that matter after six years.
CTC are bull****ting if thats the case.
As everyone knows, or should very quickly learn- there are no promises in aviation.
Disregard everything AlexWCD has stated.
Avoid everything to do with the Air NZ Scheme it's got future shafting written all over it! It's all about Air NZ not you.
Stay away from everything to do CTC they are a bull****ting marketing department. They suck up to Jetstar to make they're fat little profit on your training.
Stay away from the Jetstar Cadet scheme, it is a slave labour scheme in disguise. A middle management accounting bonus project. Making some fat cats look good to the board? At your expense long term. You're a fool if you go anywhere near it!
I highly recommend becoming a dodgy accountant or what ever and buy your self a toy and fly in the weekends......but if not...
Go to a good old flying school get a student loan if you can (it's interest free!) do all the fun flying go fly around Mt Cook, Queenstown, Milford Sound etc enjoy your training. Try even getting a job down there for a season or two? do some skydiving, banner glider towing. It will better for you long term skill wise and respect.
Stay away from flying with C cats that have had no exposure to the outside of their flying school.
Then get over seas as quick as possible! avoid the whole Eagle, Air Nelson scene. There is a huge wide world out there great adventures, better machines and more money than NZ.
It takes a big step to leave the safety of little old NZ but once you do you will forever better off.
Avoid everything to do with the Air NZ Scheme it's got future shafting written all over it! It's all about Air NZ not you.
Stay away from everything to do CTC they are a bull****ting marketing department. They suck up to Jetstar to make they're fat little profit on your training.
Stay away from the Jetstar Cadet scheme, it is a slave labour scheme in disguise. A middle management accounting bonus project. Making some fat cats look good to the board? At your expense long term. You're a fool if you go anywhere near it!
I highly recommend becoming a dodgy accountant or what ever and buy your self a toy and fly in the weekends......but if not...
Go to a good old flying school get a student loan if you can (it's interest free!) do all the fun flying go fly around Mt Cook, Queenstown, Milford Sound etc enjoy your training. Try even getting a job down there for a season or two? do some skydiving, banner glider towing. It will better for you long term skill wise and respect.
Stay away from flying with C cats that have had no exposure to the outside of their flying school.
Then get over seas as quick as possible! avoid the whole Eagle, Air Nelson scene. There is a huge wide world out there great adventures, better machines and more money than NZ.
It takes a big step to leave the safety of little old NZ but once you do you will forever better off.