Landing direction at non towered aerodromes
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Landing direction at non towered aerodromes
Hi guys, recently on a flight i encountered an aircraft that was performing touch and goes with a tailwind (around 15 knots) 
at a non-towered aerodrome. After i arrived overhead and made the required calls on the local CTAF i stated that i would continue circling 500 ft above the circuit height until he departed or landed as i would require to land in the opposite direction due to wind. After circling for approximately 20 min (aircraft was continuing to perform touch and goes with a tailwind) and issuing a call every now and then i decieded to give up and fly to my alternate as i needed to refuel. At this stage there was a further 2 aircraft circling with me wanting to land. Just interested to know what other people would do in this situation
at a non-towered aerodrome. After i arrived overhead and made the required calls on the local CTAF i stated that i would continue circling 500 ft above the circuit height until he departed or landed as i would require to land in the opposite direction due to wind. After circling for approximately 20 min (aircraft was continuing to perform touch and goes with a tailwind) and issuing a call every now and then i decieded to give up and fly to my alternate as i needed to refuel. At this stage there was a further 2 aircraft circling with me wanting to land. Just interested to know what other people would do in this situation
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Well, you could assume he is traing like that for a reason, and ask him kindly to hold for a moment while you land.
Some folk need a fair amount of slapping about the head before any sense dribbles out one ear.
Where, when and who?
Maybe somebody will know them and have a quiet word.
You do get the patience award my friend because I reckon after a while I would have had some serious landing lights pointed at him from the other end of the field to wake the fecker up!
Some folk need a fair amount of slapping about the head before any sense dribbles out one ear.
Where, when and who?
Maybe somebody will know them and have a quiet word.
You do get the patience award my friend because I reckon after a while I would have had some serious landing lights pointed at him from the other end of the field to wake the fecker up!
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He wouldn't last long at my local.
He would be told in no-uncertain terms to p-off. If he didn't conform, Jaba's treatment of landing lights would soon follow. You could follow up with paperwork, but there's nothing like a public jousting followed by a call to the flying school to bring him into line.
He would be told in no-uncertain terms to p-off. If he didn't conform, Jaba's treatment of landing lights would soon follow. You could follow up with paperwork, but there's nothing like a public jousting followed by a call to the flying school to bring him into line.
You're joking?! He had no right to stop you landing immediately on the "duty" ie into-wind runway. What he did (or not do) was ridiculous, arrogant and against the rules. I'd have demanded he move out of your way; if he did not, give his callsign to CASA. And post it on Prune so we can "keep an eye on him/her".
Don't take any nonsense from bullies like this: they display bad airmanship and are an embarrassment and also threaten flight-safety by unsettling others. Either that or they are a total moron who shouldn't be in the sky. In both cases, bad training/flight etiquette.
Don't take any nonsense from bullies like this: they display bad airmanship and are an embarrassment and also threaten flight-safety by unsettling others. Either that or they are a total moron who shouldn't be in the sky. In both cases, bad training/flight etiquette.
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I would declare a mayday on his behalf. He obviously has a serious issue, so you'd be doing him a favour. Watch him scream then.
I once watched a gun-ho instructor from Moorabbin at a regional field cutting downwind circuits in the George-Jetson Sportstar, oblivous to the 20 knot tail wind on a 500 metre runway. The fact that he was touching down over half way down it should have made him realise... it didn't
I once watched a gun-ho instructor from Moorabbin at a regional field cutting downwind circuits in the George-Jetson Sportstar, oblivous to the 20 knot tail wind on a 500 metre runway. The fact that he was touching down over half way down it should have made him realise... it didn't
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AIP ENR - Gen Rules & Proc's- Ops in Class G - LDG Manouvres - Circuit Entry
The A/C doing the D/W circuits was not compliant with the rules.
You had the 'Right of Way'.
I would have told him to F off until I'd landed.
48.3 The runway to be used for landing should be:
a. the most closely aligned into‐wind runway; or
b. when operational reasons justify, any other available landing direction provided the nominated circuit is executed without conflict to landing or take‐off traffic using the most into‐wind runway
a. the most closely aligned into‐wind runway; or
b. when operational reasons justify, any other available landing direction provided the nominated circuit is executed without conflict to landing or take‐off traffic using the most into‐wind runway
You had the 'Right of Way'.
I would have told him to F off until I'd landed.
Hang on a minute, what exactly did the other pilot do that upset you?
The way I read your post, you turned up at an airfield where someone else was already there, flying circuits for their own purposes. Before you arrived, the only aircraft in the vicinity was the one flying downwind circuits.
You then stated to them that you were going to wait until they had completed their flight before you would descend to circuit height.
You then got sick of waiting politely, and went somewhere else.
Did you at any stage ask the other pilot to let you use the reciprocal runway?
Did you possibly consider joining the circuit along with the other aircraft, and making a landing yourself, downwind?
The way I read it, all you said to them was that you were happy to hold for as long as they were still doing circuits, and then you got annoyed that they continued flying circuits.
Trent: We have nothing to suggest they didnt have operational reasons justifying downwind circuits. Perhaps giving a student exposure to downwind landings?
There is also nothing in the original post that suggested anyone was actually using the into-wind runway - merely that he wanted to use it.
The way I read your post, you turned up at an airfield where someone else was already there, flying circuits for their own purposes. Before you arrived, the only aircraft in the vicinity was the one flying downwind circuits.
You then stated to them that you were going to wait until they had completed their flight before you would descend to circuit height.
You then got sick of waiting politely, and went somewhere else.
Did you at any stage ask the other pilot to let you use the reciprocal runway?
Did you possibly consider joining the circuit along with the other aircraft, and making a landing yourself, downwind?
The way I read it, all you said to them was that you were happy to hold for as long as they were still doing circuits, and then you got annoyed that they continued flying circuits.
Trent: We have nothing to suggest they didnt have operational reasons justifying downwind circuits. Perhaps giving a student exposure to downwind landings?
There is also nothing in the original post that suggested anyone was actually using the into-wind runway - merely that he wanted to use it.
Penalties for such stupid behaviour exist:
CASR 91.360:
Strict liability as well.
Remind me to try driving on the Right hand side of the road, other drivers can just get out of my way.
If there are "operational reasons" such as training, then by definition the person performing the downwind circuits must cease and desist once another aircraft arrives and wants to land.
To put it another way, you can't require that someone else conforms to your stupid idea just because you got their first.
CASR 91.360:
The pilot must, to the extent practicable, land and take off into the wind
Remind me to try driving on the Right hand side of the road, other drivers can just get out of my way.
If there are "operational reasons" such as training, then by definition the person performing the downwind circuits must cease and desist once another aircraft arrives and wants to land.
To put it another way, you can't require that someone else conforms to your stupid idea just because you got their first.
Last edited by Sunfish; 18th Apr 2011 at 19:33.
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Las, what Sunfish says except I would add
If there are "operational reasons" such as training, then by definition the person performing the downwind circuits must cease and desist once nother aircraft arrives and wants to land on the 'in to wind, runway'.
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If there are "operational reasons" such as training, then by definition the person performing the downwind circuits must cease and desist once another aircraft arrives and wants to land.
"Desist" = to not take up the activity again later
However, he is entitled to do this at his own discretion, provided he doesn't interfere with others.
Lasiorhinus, you are joking, aren't you? Any halfwit doing 15kt downwind landings would say to himself "err, 'nother 'plane in circuit, I s'pose he wants to land into wind, I'll get out of his way".
As I said, arrogant or moronic.
As I said, arrogant or moronic.
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Port Macquarie is one airport that springs to mind where this situation exists quite often, with turboprops/jets landing 03, mixing it with circuit traffic on 21. It is however fairly easy to resolve if you just talk to the other person!
It is also easier if you are able to conduct a straight in approach, that way you can keep the other aircraft in view at all times. Otherwise, position yourself to join downwind as the other aircraft touches down, then conduct a normal circuit, if it gets tight ask the other aircraft to extend on downwind. You will more than likley find that this can be completed without either aircraft being hindered.
Disclaimer: Of course this technique will not work if one runway has RH circuits!
It is also easier if you are able to conduct a straight in approach, that way you can keep the other aircraft in view at all times. Otherwise, position yourself to join downwind as the other aircraft touches down, then conduct a normal circuit, if it gets tight ask the other aircraft to extend on downwind. You will more than likley find that this can be completed without either aircraft being hindered.
Disclaimer: Of course this technique will not work if one runway has RH circuits!
The training excuse doesn't really cut it in this case either.
Crosswind training, fair enough; downwind - no point, and puts you in a worse position in the engine failure case too, not to mention unneccessarily hammering the tyres for no good reason.
Still, it would have made good sense to just ask him to hold while you landed rather than wait until you were forced to divert.
Crosswind training, fair enough; downwind - no point, and puts you in a worse position in the engine failure case too, not to mention unneccessarily hammering the tyres for no good reason.
Still, it would have made good sense to just ask him to hold while you landed rather than wait until you were forced to divert.
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YWOL by any chance?
not uncommon to have wind from 080 at 15 kts, and still people doing circuits on 16/34, wehn you have runway 08 at your disposal. just get on the radio, problem solved. mae your intentions clear, PIC on the non duty runway if you can call it that should be polite enough to hold, or manouver so you can get in on the duty runway, or runway that is "operationally required"
not uncommon to have wind from 080 at 15 kts, and still people doing circuits on 16/34, wehn you have runway 08 at your disposal. just get on the radio, problem solved. mae your intentions clear, PIC on the non duty runway if you can call it that should be polite enough to hold, or manouver so you can get in on the duty runway, or runway that is "operationally required"
Originally Posted by Wallsofchina
Wouldn't mind a dollar for every RPT flight that pushes in and lands downwind
Wouldn't mind a dollar for every RPT flight that pushes in and lands downwind
I'll always offer to work around the RPT flights, but do get my nose out of joint a bit when they act as if it's their right to have right of way.
After i arrived overhead and made the required calls on the local CTAF i stated that i would continue circling 500 ft above the circuit height until he departed or landed as i would require to land in the opposite direction due to wind.
Apologies if I missed it, but was the offending pilot making any radio transmissions?